How useful is MBA for one's career

[floozyfloozle]

There had been 2 opposing opinions among people I know about holding MBA degree.

Some are thinking it's not really a degree to get more education but

rather to do networking; whereas others think that it can be both. It

seems both do somehow agree that it is true that after getting the MBA

degree, one usually would have a boost in their career.

And since I'm living in Singapore that has INSEAD campus and actually

some other foreign universities as well, I've been thinking about going

to MBA, but would like to hear from others who actually already got

their MBA degree and how it affected your career.

Cheers.

[Opalienne]

I don't have an MBA so maybe I shouldn't comment.   But I really can't be sure of the value of having one.   Some of the cleverest and most competent people I know have one; and so do some of the ones I would not employ in a million years.   I think the latter are in the majority.  I guess it depends how much you want to do one.

[Will]

Whether or not an MBA is useful in the country where it is awarded is one thing - whether it has any relevance to getting employment in France is what matters on this forum. I would imagine it is totally useless here, like most non-French qualifications.

[Hoddy]

My daughter in law took a year out to do an MBA. She is now earning less than she was before. She is just one person though and may not be typical.

Hoddy

[Owens88]

If you are in England an MBA is a great way of 'proving yourself' after you have some years experience.

If you are in the USA I 'think' an MBA is a prerequisite for a management career.

Singapore, France, elsewhere....I have even less knowledge than that.

 

I wouldn't advise my kids to go straight from first degree to MBA.

 

Good luck

[Pangur]

I haven't an MBA, but did classes with a highly regarded MBA course as part of my own masters.  The vast majority of students on this course had their fees paid for by the company they were working for, were in middle management in blue chip companies or on a fast track to middle management and had taken leave to study for it.

The standard of MBAs varies widely and one from an unknown or unproven university may be totally worthless- I know people with one and they can hardly put a memo together and others who are at the top of their game.  There is a lot of money in MBAs for the universities - they are much more expensive than other masters, mainly I think because companies pay the fees, not individuals.  The advice I have heard from MBA lecturers is that they are most useful after some years in the workplace and doing one straight after your primary degree is not a good idea as you have no idea how the business world runs.

The other thing is that in many countries, and France seems to be one, a degree is a standard qualification, so lots of companies, particularly international ones, will specified advanced degree in recruitment material.  A reputable MBA will stand up in any country and will of course be accepted in French companies.   It is one way of getting your CV bumped up a little, but for many jobs it will at just put you on the playing field.  They may have been pretty special a decade or two ago, but advanced degrees are becoming more and more common. 

What career are you looking at? What type of qualifications do prospective companies ask for? Is it going to mean you are overqualifed academically and underqualified in terms of acutal business experience.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/mba/ has loads of articles on different MBAs and on the site somewhere should be a list of the best ones in the world....

 

[Catalpa]

I agree with John Owens and Pangur. In Europe, if degree

snobbery (in either direction) isn’t playing a part in the recruitment process,

a candidate’s previous employment experience, personal qualities etc are of most

interest with an MBA being secondary. The value of the qualification is subject

to the relevance of the MBA course and the quality of the provider. I’m only

talking here of the corporate world and particularly the multi-national

corporate world. Here, a good MBA gained in the UK or America will be recognised

in France. Or Germany or the Netherlands or Spain. Anyway Floozy, you mentioned

INSEAD and INSEAD is French and highly rated in Europe - I can't remember where

it comes in the global rankings but the FT site will tell you.

http://news.ft.com/businesslife/mba

I’ve worked for multi-national companies and been involved

with recruitment for about 18 years. If an applicant had done an MBA following

on from their main degree or had spent only a year or so in the workplace and

then done an MBA, the candidate was viewed as top heavy – all qualifications and

no substantive business experience to which the learning could be applied.

Frankly, if employed, they could be a nightmare.

If someone had worked for around 5 - 10 years and then

taken time out – either full-time or part-time – to do the MBA, subsequently

they were a much more ‘rounded’ candidate. They didn’t get an interview because

of their MBA, they didn’t get a job offer because of their MBA but taking the

candidate as a whole, of course it was a factor. There’s no doubt that an MBA

can (should) make the candidate more promotable in the long-term which, for a

big company, is always appealing.

Networking opportunities: 4 or 5  years ago, I saw a statistic indicating that

around 60% of middle / higher management in the UK found their positions via

networking. Or at least that networking had an influence even if that influence

was knowing someone whose brain you could pick pre job application / interview.

(And yes, I found 60% astonishingly high). So the networking opportunities

offered shouldn’t – I think – be a reason for doing an MBA but they’re

definitely a potential benefit.

 

An MBA is hard work, bloody expensive

if you are funding it yourself and doesn’t guarantee anything. But if I were

25-30 now, had already started and wanted to progress in a corporate career, I

would definitely do an MBA. Good luck

[:)]

[Afy]

An MBA from INSEAD is highly regarded globally. Within France you will find doors opening magically since it is considered a part of the Grand Ecoles though INSEAD doesnt acknowledge it openly.

Both ISEAD and HEC are very highly regarded French schools on a global scale, and definetely at par with Kellogs, or LSE or Harvard. Go for it.

[Jomo]

Hi,

my husband studied an MBA at a scottish university and HEC in France (6 months each). Unfortunately it did not improve his job opportunities in france.Not sure if it has really helped since, he is at the same level of management he would have been without it. Was a great experience for him though.

Joan

[Afy]

Does he quote the Scottish Univ or HEC on his resume as the school? Makes a world of difference.... Grande Ecoles!

[Fr3n]

Am wondering about the admission process.

Let's say you take GMAT and CBT-TOEFL and are not satisfied with the result probably cause you're not concentrating that well during the test and want to re-take them again in a short period of time, say a week after, is that possible?
Under the condition that the results can be sent to us instead of to the univ. directly that is...
Had my TOEFL result sent to my flat in Japan when I took it in 2001 for my job hunting. My CBT-TOEFL score then was 273 which is equal to 653 of paper-based, I think.

I took a trial GMAT test also about 4/5 years ago and without studying that much, I think I got about nearly 550. But then again, I was still in univ. at that time, so the math etc. were still fresh in mind I reckon.

A friend advised me to concentrate on getting high marks for the GMAT and TOEFL. Another was saying that since I'm female and originally from a developing country who speaks 3 languages fluently and have been working in 2 countries outside my origin country, I probably should focus more on writing a very strong essay. This friend also said that it doesn't hurt to meet the admission staff before the application even.

I probably would have to apply for the loan or scholarship preferably as my status of this scholarship recipient from an organisation back home is still conditional, based on the rank of the univ. I get into etc., just as a backup plan. But the thing is when it comes to loan, is it worth the risk, you reckon?

I'm thinking to apply to 3 schools: INSEAD, HEC and ESCP-EAP. The thing is ESCP-EAP's deadline is the middle of this month for non-EU citizens. And I still haven't taken GMAT nor TOEFL recently since only recently I received the confirmation about the scholarship and the ok to apply to business schools in France.

Any tips about the admission to business schools in France would be much appreciated.

[Llwyncelyn]

Will does that also apply to say an Honours Degree in Law?  Perhaps so for the system here is much much different to ours so I think the answer must be yes.  However I understand that because of the discipline (some say) in obtaining an Honours Law Degree in the UK one can quickly join say perhaps the ranks of those who for instance sell let us say houses. Not that I would want to for that is for the experts.

[Anton Redman]

MBAs - Depends what you have already done depends what you already know. All anything on you CV does is get you through to the interview when you have the opportunity to force the person who may hire you  to talk for most of the interview so they realise just how clever you are.

 

[Dunton4]

I have an MBA from one of the UK's leading business schools and have, post-MBA, worked as part of the programme team for the same MBA, although I'm not involved with MBA programmes now.  I now earn far less than pre-MBA, but I took my MBA to broaden my business knowledge, generate opportunities and to gain the confidence to become self-employed, not to get a leg-up in my existing career and that has worked for me.  After 17 years in industry (as a qualified accountant) I paid for my MBA myself and the return on investment is difficult to gauge.  In pure financial terms it was a poor investment, once you have considered loss of earnings whilst you study and fees, but in terms of personal growth, development of opportunities and confidence-building it has proven to be invaluable.  You will learn a lot about yourself (not all of the things I learned about myself were positive!) and meet lots of interesting, motivated people.

Advice I would give?  If you want to maximise opportunities do it at the right time in your life.  I don't want to be ageist, but 28-34 is, in my personal opinion the best time to take the MBA if you want to exploit traditional "MBA" type jobs.  Of course, you can take it when you're older (I did) but many traditional employers of MBAs will not consider you for their MBA recruitment programmes (I know there is legislation against this in the UK and increasingly throughout Europe now, but it happened then and I've no doubt will continue to be an issue in the future)   If, like me, you're more mature, think hard about why you want to take it - there are many good reasons, but be sure you are comfortable with them as a direct financial return may be harder to find. 

Make sure you attend the best school you can get into.  The rankings do matter.  I personally wouldn't have made the personal and financial sacrifices I did to get an MBA from a school with anything less than an excellent reputation.  Be prepared to work harder than you've ever worked in your life before.  Recognise that for every employer who values your qualification there will be others who think you're over-qualified.  The majority of people on my course wanted to change career direction and I think it is generally considered to be true that an MBA may enable you to work in the same function, but in a different industry sector, or to change function within the same sector, but that to attempt to change both function and sector at the same time is too big an ask!  Really research the market for MBAs in your country/sector - will your qualification be valued once you've got it?  Some MBA programmes enable you to study in two or more different countries and that may be useful to you and attractive to potential employers.  I agree that for French employers  it would be essential to have studied at a French school for at least part of your MBA.

Doing my MBA was life-changing for me, and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.  for me it was worth doing just for the opportunity to work with people from 60 different countries, but it didn't make me rich!  It's not a passport, but can be an enabler. 

Good luck, whatever you decide. Hope you found my thoughts useful. Sorry to have rambled on.

[Catalpa]

Floozy asked this question back in February. If you're still around, Floozy, tell us what you decided to do.

[YCCMB]

Just as a point that I always found rather curious (and, like Catalpa, I spent quite a while in recruitment...) a couple of posters have mentioned that the MBA is a potentially helpful qualification for those seeking to broaden their horizons and, more specifically, change career. It's also been pointed out that many, if not the majority of those doing an MBA are sponsored by their company. If it's a c***p investment for anyone, it's always seemed to me that it's for the company that sponsors an individual only to have them leave and move to another job as soon as they've completed their studies.

[Dunton4]

Most companies who sponsor MBAs have a "lock-in clause" in their contracts to try to ensure that the person stays with the company for a specified period of time.  I'm not sure how binding this is legally, though, so you may have a good point!

 

[YCCMB]

We did, and it isn't

[Fr3n]

I was so busy trying to get the scholarship to finance my MBA and I got a conditional acceptance.

Meaning that I would get the scholarship if I could get a high-ranked business school in France for one and there is going to be an activity the candidates have to do where we will be judged based on how we do this activity to determine what kind of person we are, it seems...

Well as for the admission, do you reckon it's useful to go to meet the admission staff of the business schools?

Am thinking to go to France between 23rd-30th of Nov and actually am thinking to attend an intensive GMAT Prep-Course in Paris for the whole week during that period also if I could.

What do you reckon about meeting the admission staff? And let me know if you know of any GMAT Prep-Course in Paris, or any place to contact to inquire about the course.

While I'm there, if there is any rendezvous for the forum members in Paris, I wouldn't mind attending if you'd have me, considering I might live there, well maybe not Paris, as it depends on which business school I enter.

Am thinking to apply to INSEAD, HEC and Lyon.

Another alternative is Sciences Pro, but I haven't been able to find their website on google! If you know it, by all means, please do share the info.

Cheers ears in advance and cheers so much for the tips previously.

Flozzy who forgot her password *blush*.

[ClaireClear]

This is Floozy again. Been drifted for some time, but I'm back :) maybe will stick for a while even.

I couldn't get into INSEAD cause of the GMAT, they're asking for 700!

I had a gut feeling I could get 650 but then I got only a bit higher than 600 so INSEAD was out completely :(

I basically only applied INSEAD and Lyon. My hesitation to apply to HEC cause of the cost. My job was quite stressful, so I couldn't bring myself to study for the GMAT, so I had to pay for the course, plus taking GMAT twice (the 2nd time I took it, in the middle of the English part, which was the part I got lower mark than the Math part, my bloody migraine stroke, so I even got less than 600!).

Plus I didn't get a strong impression from the admission what HEC is actually strong in...

Anyways, another hesitation was caused by a bond to work back home (one of what is considered to be a 3rd world country let's say) for 5 years plus to set aside US$500/month for I can't remember exactly now but about 20 years I reckon, since my tuition and living expenses are going to be paid by a scholarship fund I have from an organisation back home.

So I was actually thinking to let it go.. I had another scholarship offer to obtain MSc (my background is sort of related to IT in my undergrad, and I have been wanting to set-up my own online business in the future) by doing master by research. Have been in touch with the school, but what really bugs me is that it seems the supervisor for this kind of postgrad student (also on the PhD level) is the only person who can and will determine whether you will get your degree or not. And that sounds a little too restrictive for me.

So I decided to take the scholarship for the MBA and so I'll be in Lyon from end of Aug for one year!

Now, the problem is how to find a place, a room even I don't mind either in a dorm or in a flat for students? I have a scholarship but it's only enough for monthly expenses it seems. Plus I'm still single so a room for myself will do.

Anybody here lives in Lyon by any chance? Do you guys meet offline sometimes. I don't know anybody in Lyon actually, so to be able to attend the forum rendezvous would be nice.