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Private Schooling


junebaby
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Hi guys

Sorry, another question!  There is a private Catholic school in our village (we are moving to Monbahus (dept 47) in May) and I have recently had a conversation with the headteacher there who sounds absolutely lovely.

My question is, what do you get extra for your money? It's not a great deal of money for a private education (compared to England that is!) and I wondered what the benefits are?  What about extra curricular stuff like sports, french lessons, activities etc - do we pay extra for those?

Also, the Scholaire Assurance is 60 Euros per year which, judging by other posts, is expensive although she did mention something about sports and Catholic schools.

I have an appointment to see her on 22 May and it is looking likely that we will send our daughter there but I would just like some feedback from others who may have been down this road before us.

Thanks

Vicki [:D]

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Hi Vicki

I am new to this forum.

I have been in France since September and enrolled my son (13) in a brand new local college (13km away).  It is a state school.  He had a taste earlier in the year of the private sector too.  Coming from a first class private school in Scotland, the whole thing has been an utter shock to the system.

Much depends on how much French your child has and how much help the school is able to give her.  The French system is so rigid that it takes a seriously exceptional head teacher to help.  In France,  the Headteacher has no choice at all in the staff - the Inspection Academique is responsible for this.  Teachers are not committed in the same way as at home - they are civil servants - and have very powerful unions.  When their teaching day is over - they go home.  This means that in a full school week if a teacher has only eg 19 hours in the timetable - they go home and what is more they very often then give private tuition in the time which is already beeing paid for by the State!  It is rare that any homework is corrected by the teacher.  Work is gone over in class.

Children are failing at school, I believe because of the system.  It is designed to strip out the deadwood as fast as possible thus reducing the numbers as of the age 14.  These 'failing' children are then sent off to specialist schools to learn trades.  

Teaching here is about delivering a lesson.  Thankyou and goodbye.  The emphasis is on the pupil to learn (learn by heart that is).  Understanding is not part of the equation.  This is not their remit. At the beginning of each year, each teacher dictates a contract for each pupil to sign - so - relieving them of any responsibility for the child. At home the teacher is 'in loco parentis' - not here.

45% of the French leaving the system are illiterate I was told by the SVT teacher (Science Vie et Terre) after Week One, that my child would learn nothing in her class because 'c'est la subtilite de la langue francaise qui compte'!!!!  Try telling that to the World's scientists.  This I should have seen as a warning as it outlined the very narrow and insular French mentality. . 

Private schools which are 'sous contrat' are inexpensive as the teachers' salaries are paid by the State.  As at home, the private schools are keen to be producing good results. They are therefore somewhat selective.  If you listen to other parents, you will eventually realise that many choose these private schools are there are far many less North African pupils.  France is an incredibly racist country which is why there is so much unrest.

I have told you all this - believe me- not to put you off - but to explain what you are up against.  I could have done with understanding the system before but have learned the hard way and my child has suffered consequently.  Nice new school but no teacher of Francais Langue Etranger to help him.  Mostly ignored - he is shoved up to the back corner of the class on his own - he is quiet and reserved but now quite dispirited.

Vicki, you are in an area, which from looking at the website of Ac-Bordeaux on which your school depends, it could be that there is much more backup as there are far more younger British with families moving into the area.  Here the influx is mainly retirees.  We had a house in the Tarn et Garonne before - beautiful area - well done and enjoy.  I know of some good restaurants. 

The other children, I have to tell you, are just lovely and very helpful indeed.  Work with this headmistress.  She already sounds enthusiastic - great. (In our case, this was a new school with 450 pupils no-one knew so having a foreign child just added to their burden)  Having the school in the village is great - truly - as it means that your wee girl will be able to see her friends after school.  (This we miss as we are just that bit far away from everyone. )

Being a girl, I think the transition will be easier in any case.  All the very best.

Caroline

 

 

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I'm not sure how old your daughter is Vicki, but our daughter had two terms in Catholic primary, moved on to Catholic college, and takes her Economic/Social Bac next year. It has been a struggle for her all the way, the breadth of a French academic education seems to be far greater than a UK one, but we have always had the impression that most of her teachers cared about how she was doing, and some extra help with French was given in primary and college when required. We didn't choose the Catholic system but it seemed to choose us, both the estate agent and our peasant farmer neighbour making a pitch for it, and then a meeting with a very positive head. Our daughter even attended her school here before we moved permanently. Where we live there is no selection of intake at primary or college, and being in the system she was then guaranteed a place at the most successful academic lycee in the area. Do ask around about the Catholic colleges and lycees where you live, you might find that visiting both state and private establishments helps you make up your mind.

The advantages of the Catholic system for us have been: smaller schools, no teacher's strikes, teachers proud of their school's reputation, a good social mix of positive and supportive parents, 100% pass rate at the brevet against the state college's 68%, good motivation from the director and teachers at her Lycee (85% pass rate of those who sit at Bac S,L, and ES).

The downside for our daughter, compared to our son who went through the UK system in what we thought were very good state schools, is that her French education has been no fun. Very long hours at lycee, loads of homework, rigidity of responses to questions (even English!), availability of non work-orientated courses etc. But we're hoping that a UK university course will make up for that later!.

I was very sceptical of the French system for the first few years, but when you see your child battling with and overcoming the obstacles by sheer hard work, then you become very proud of their achievement and proud also of the education they have been given.

It sounds to me that you have been as impressed by this head teacher as we were our daughter's, and I hope that if you take the Catholic education path you will be as pleased with it as we have been.

Steve

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Thanks very much for both of these replies, Caroline it sounds like you have had a very tough time. [:(]

Steve, our daughter is 6 so she is really at the start of her education, one of the reasons we have chosen to come to France now rather than wait any more years until she will most likely find it more difficult.  It does sound like the headteacher at your school daughters school is similar to the one at ours and the advantages you have mentioned are very similar to those given to us by a friend of ours who lived in France until summer this year.  The hard work side of things might be difficult for our daughter who is away with the fairies quite a lot of the time and would rather be dancing and singing than learning her tables [:D] (although I'm a bit like that myself!). 

Thanks for your support.

Vicki

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Hi Junebaby

I think age is key here, at 6 your daughter has plenty of time to get used to the french way of doing things and which ever school you chose she will have a much better chance than an older child.  My son is in a small village school and is very happy, the teacher is fantastic and he really does care.  The teacher was born in the village and is keeping his village school alive, he is interesting and the children like him. He does rule with a firm hand, something that I am glad of and as my son started in the french system from the outset he is used to it.

To Caroline: I hate to sound negative but to bring a child to another country at 13 after having him privatley tutored really does sound strange, it was always going to be hard, so much of what the exams contain will have been missed and the poster doesn't say how good his french was, I'm assuming not great.  I really cannot understand what would drive a parent to make such a choice, I really am not being dismissive of your choice, but I really do find it hard to think of a reason that would make me make the same choice.  Sadly if you search the forum there are lots of stories of people bringing older kids over and wondering why they are struggling....

one last thing on the hours issue, I think some of the teachers who post here might have something to say about the 'hours the state are paying for being used for private tuition'.. I believe that they are only paid for the hours they do and they sometimes end up doing 19 hours in one school and say 15 in another, some distance away, I don't think they could  be said to be earning on top of their state pay..I could be wrong though

Panda

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My son is in year 3 at an incredibly good private pre-prep here in the UK. In September he moves to a village school in the UK for two years and then at the age of 10 he'll be living in France and I have to find a school for him. We are in Madre - la Ferte Merce (Mayenne) Is their any advice here about schools in that area?
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Hi Vicki

Our son is at the local (semi) private catholic school and it's brilliant. We sent him there becasue they didn't care about the catchment area and we live in a bit of an odd place where it would take us about 2 hours to get to our "local" school. Anyway, it costs us about 90€ a term. on top of that we have a "voluntary" 20€ a year charitable donation; lunch (37€ for 10) Then 19€ a month if we want him to go to before and after school club. nothing more so far (but he is in maternelle). The school insurance was optional and we took out our own which was about 10€ or free with our house insurance. 

They are all lovely in our school and very friendly. The teacher talks to every parent she can when we collect the kids to let us know how they got on that day; the big kids look after the little kids. And they don't teach them to be catholics! Not that I have a problem with that if one wants to become a catholic, but we didn't particularly and I was a bit worried about it. Apparently because they are semi-private they have to stick to the curriculum which forbids religious instruction, so they just have RE like we did in school.

They say the money we pay pays for extra activities, equipment and the buildings etc and for extra classroom assistants i think (there always seem to be loads). This year they bought tennis equipment and bikes for the maternelle - hmmm my son (who is 3) managed to ride one over someone's arm and break it last week - maybe they shouldn't have bothered with the bikes!

good luck

suzi

www.patiras.com/trinite.htm

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The schools will reflect the area, i.e. they will be backwaters where nothing much happens and where most of the pupils will not aspire to anything more than an agricultural/factory/shop job on the SMIC (if they are lucky enough to find one). Most people will never have travelled or lived more than 30 km from where they were born. Private prep territory it ain't. It would be wise to research very carefully before deciding whether this is really the schooling you want for your son.

The comment by another poster that their daughter's French education was a struggle and no fun sums up the reason we left France (la Mayenne). An Australian friend who brought her son up in Paris told me recently that putting him through French education was her biggest regret (this was at good schools in Paris). Her son had been worn down by the negativity and struggle of it all and the punitive attitudes. As she said to me, what is the point of it being so miserable? What good does it do them? Life is there to be enjoyed. He has recently gone to Australia and has been transformed by the relaxed mentality and positive attitudes there.

French university students are miserable too - working their butts off to avoid being kicked off the course. No time for soft skills or extracurricular activities or just ... finding yourself. (I'm quoting what French graduate friends have told me.) It's not what we wanted for our kids.

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Hi

I agree to some extent with Jo53, the school does reflect the area but the same applies where ever you live.  In an Australian 'back water' school do you imagine there are world beaters?  The same goes for the UK, I grew up in a small gloucestershire village where many people had never left the village, it's the same everywhere.  What you have to decide is what you want for your kids.  We wanted to have more time for our son and we do now, we were working stupid hours which meant our son would be raised by others, we now pick him up and drop him off everyday and we do lots together.  The Brits are choosing remote villages and some are expecting to find prep schools, it's not going to happen nor would it if you decided to live anywhere in the world deep in the countryside.  It's up to the parents to instill the attitudes to life they want from their kids and we intend to continue to travel and show our son as much of life as possible. 

We may move again but know very well we need to do this before he enters secondary school to avoid problems, NZ looks interesting for our next adventure!

We do know we don't want the secondary system where we came from in the UK where almost all kids go to Uni (or some updated poly) then leave with a degree in an obscure discipline and find that there are no jobs that will make use of the degree, they are 24k in debt and working in telesales.  I have 2 nephews in this situation and they are very miserable. 

Panda

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Of course the schools reflect the area. But surely it's our duty as parents to ensure that our kids do travel more than 30km from their doorsteps, and that they aspire beyond factory/shop/agricultural jobs - or at least know that other things are within their reach should they want them?! Why do they need Private Prep's? My son's primary school teaches them that you should be nice to one another, you should love your family, kiss your aunties, respect adults and recognise that there are people worse off than you. They learn to plant bulbs, sing songs and have fancy dress canivals and I don't beleive I've ever seen a computer in there. Meanwhile his cousins in a good old British primary are a whizz on computers and know which trainers they should wear and NEED the latest mobiles because EVERYONE else has them; and wouldn't be seen dead kissing their aunty in public for fear of being beaten up in school for being wussy!

Yes it might sound like the good old days here in our rural backwater and what he's doing now won't earn him a place on the board of directors anywhere, but there is time enough for that later.

Personally, I went to a rough as anything comp on a council estate where most of the pupils didn't aspire beyond pregnancy before 16, if the drug habit hadn't got them first. No, that wasn't the schooling that my parents would have chosen for their children, but they didn't have the luxury of choice. However, you don't spend your whole life at school and luckily my home life was such that I did aspire a little beyond that. A few years on, a degree, PhD, years in Cancer Research, set up and running a gite business, and now living in the kind of place where I do have the luxury to be able to choose a "nice" school for my sons, I think I am the proof that your school isn't the be-all and end-all.

I'm sure we could find people who have moved both to and from France with varying degrees of success in changing their children's education. I don't think it matters which country you're in, you have to look at the school itself and make a decision on what is right for your kids at that time.

suzi

www.patiras.com/trinite.htm

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Just a thought,

My daughter is doing her BAC next year and is finding all the studies required very difficult, as are her French friends.

We did talk about her going back to the UK to do her A levels, but SHE decided not to. 

She has achieved a hell of a lot considering she did'nt speak a word of French before arriving here 6 years ago.

As she says, here she will have the equivalent of A levels in 10 subjects, not 3 or 4 which makes the British kids seem a bit like wuzzes, doesn't it?

She watches English TV (her Dad and I find the French version to be anything but relaxing of an evening) and is horrified by the lack of education exhibited by many English youngsters. She cannot understand how they have been at school for so long and cannot speak the language or understand basic maths.  ( Not only youngsters, but reporters etc.)  She maintains that she would prefer to have lots of work now and achieve a decent level of education rather than opt for the "Easy Option" that a British education would be.

Incidentally, she will not go to a French university, again her decision. We know too many young people pushed to the brink by the pressures involved here. She will be either doing another 2 years at the equivalent of College of Further Education studying tourism, or perhaps spend a year in Germany as an au pair before searching for work in Germany. ( She speaks fluent German).

She leaves the house at 7am and arrives home at 7pm every day except Wednesdays when she has a half day. She studies for at least 2 hours every evening and also on Wednesdays. Is life hard.....you betcha! Is she fulfilled....yep! Does she live it up at the weekends with her friends from lycee......oh yes!

That, my friends, is the reality of life for young people here in France, and very wholesome it is too!

I'm sorry for waffling on, but my daughter is sexy gorgeous and smart......just like her Mum! And she is just SoooooFrench!

Give them the support they need and watch them blossom,

Aly

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[quote user="Panda "]

We do know we don't want the secondary system where we came from in the UK where almost all kids go to Uni (or some updated poly) then leave with a degree in an obscure discipline and find that there are no jobs that will make use of the degree, they are 24k in debt and working in telesales.  I have 2 nephews in this situation and they are very miserable. 

Panda

[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear about your nephews' situation, Panda, but the system gave them what they asked for, the qualifications in the subjects they chose.

Our experience with the UK system was far less bleak than you describe.

Our son went through the sytem there and graduated from what you describe as an 'updated poly'. He, and many of his course-mates were offered job contracts at the end of their placement years, and at 26 he has a job that is extremely well paid.

He doesn't consider himself a high flier, but he did what he did, and does what he does, by hard work and a wish to succeed, much as is driving our daughter's education here in France. He worked hard during his holidays and placement year, he took the maximum loan, which was roughly £12K when he graduated, and has had no difficulty paying back, and he still managed to be out of his head most evenings.

We are as proud of his achievements and his British education as we are of our daughter's here in France. They are different systems, and I would defend anyone who succeeds in either. I do think that the same youngsters who succeed in one system would quite likely succeed in the other - and it's not necessarily an intelligence thing. I'm  also fairly sure that if a student can't succeed in the British system (after primary), he or she is very unlikely to succeed in the French one.

At our son's award ceremony, the Vice Chancellor told the graduates "not to pay heed to those ignorant people who dismiss their degrees", sentiments that I strongly agree with.

I wish your nephews every success in finding a job that interests them. I'm sure that they're not the only graduates in that situation, and whilst things usually come right in the end, its better to be working in a telephone sales centre than on the dole (in my opinion of course).

Steve

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Hi Steve

I think what I failed to put across is that in my opinion the system is encouraging kids without true academic ability to go to Uni. and the incentive is in your words 'managing to get out of  his head most evenings', is what is driving many of them.  I'm all for getting the best out of our kids but a reality check is also required.

One of my nephews would not have been considered for Uni even 10 years ago, he scraped through his A levels and was accepted at uni with a very low score, something that is happening more and more as more places are made available.  He had to retake one year as he failed and despite all of this did graduate but his chances are slim of getting a job in his degree subject as huge numbers are taking the same subject.  So now he is doing a job he could have walked into 4 years ago, he is earning and I agree that is better than the dole but he feels cheated and is unmotivated.  With the proliferation of leisure and media courses this is a common outcome.

I should explain that I come from a large family and currently have 8 nephews and nieces in Uni's in the UK, I just feel that Uni is not for everyone, and the ability for all to go only serves to dilute the achievement. 

My response was related to this from an earlier post about the french system:

It is designed to strip out the deadwood as fast as possible thus reducing the numbers as of the age 14.  These 'failing' children are then sent off to specialist schools to learn trades.  

I'm not saying the French system is right either but some middle ground would be good whereby those kids who are not academically minded are encouraged to go down a different route rather than marched through a Uni coming out with a degree that carries little weight in the job market.

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  • 1 month later...

Our grandchildren moved to the Cote d'Or in April and within a week had started at the Maternelle designated for our village, although we do have a choice of which school they attend.

It is a state school and already our grandaughter will go to Primaire in September. Our grandson is 3 and a half and our grandaughter 6. We were told not to be persuaded to keep her at Maternelle any longer, she is bright and wants to learn.

There is a Private school (sous contrat) in a nearby town and my daughter is wondering whether to send the children there at Primaire or after, the cost is low being sous contrat and a neighbour's daughter is very happy there.

At the moment we are happy with their education the Maternelle, the teachers are fantastic, make the children welcome and explain very well what is required. The only problem we have had is that in Petit Section the children have a sleep at the start of the afternoon session then after an hour they play. James is not used to an afternoon sleep and if he does it is a nightmare to get him to bed at night! So, the teacher lets him join in work sessions instead.

Abigail at 6 is in Grand Section and is delighted to be there, she has a party invitation already!

I think it is better to keep an eye on the children and follow your instincts as you know your child. Go to the open days before commiting yourself and if possible to talk to parents who have children at the school. A friend has a son at the Maternelle, he is in the same section as our grandson, so we had an idea of what the school is like.

Coral

 

 

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