Appeals

[Lollie]

Hi

Anyone know the procedure for appealing a redoublement?   ie, what happens, chances of overturning decision?

Lollie

[Clair]

These might help:

http://www.homeschool.fr/conseils-de-classe.html

www.apel.asso.fr/

dans quels cas peut-on refuser le redoublement?

[Tourangelle]

Yes I do.  If your child is refused "le passage", in a class where the conseil de classe decides (6° and 4° in collège), then you have the right to appeal.  However, first you MUST see the headteacher.  The headteacher can overturn the decision of the conseil de classe, but in general, won't.  You then have 3 days in which to decide to appeal.  The appeal will take place in another school, and takes place before a panel, made up of other teachers from other schools, and a headteacher also from elsewhere, parents representatives, basically lots of people! You must respect the time limits, because the dates are already set.  If you leave it too late, there is no comeback. 

You go, with your child, and the school is represented by the professeur principal, the form teacher, who will have to speak, to explain why the conseil reached the decision.  It will probably be because of the marks, because otherwise they will be wasting everybody time.  The child or you may be asked questions.  The decision of the appeal panel is final, and there is no way around it, no other other school, either public or privé sous contrat will take your child for entry in the next year if the decision of the conseil de classe has been upheld. 

About 40-50% of decision are reversed in appeal.  However, there is no point in appealing if you child does not have the moyenne.  Equally, however disappointed your child might be by an unfavourable decision by the conseil de classe, you must insist that they go to school and continue to make an effort at the end of the year. In the school where I work, last year, apparently a couple of the kids stopped coming and appealed the decision, and they are all doing their year again, it was VERY badly seen by the appeals panel. 

Incidentally, looking at the links given above, dans quels cas peut-on réfuser le rédoublement, the short answer is, in 6° and 4°, you can't.  In 5° you can. 

[Lollie]

Hi

Its actually 3eme, to pass into 2nde.   His moyenne is 11.1, and I have been to see the Head today, and yes generally in the past she has overturned decisions, BUT this year there is a new proviseur, unfortunately THE ONE from the newspapers that has been suspended from three other schools and put here to retire, who has said no Conseil de classe decisions will be overuled regardless of parents wishes, they must appeal.

The appeal is next Tuesday, very quick! and I must prepare a letter for the President de la Commission d'Appel for the meeting.

His french and spanish have let him down this year, but all other moyennes are 10 or above, but my eldest son left 3eme with the same french moyenne and is taking his french BAC this time.   We have a tutor who now works at home with my son one evening each week in french and his progession since his poor 2nd term reflect this.  

So fingers crossed.

Lollie

[Tourangelle]

No, well the headteacher is right in a sense to insist on the appeal if he/she is in any way a controversial figure (although I must have missed somthing, I guess I don't read enough newspapers!).  Ours will all go to appeal too (if they decide to appeal), it is just at the lower levels that the headteacher might accept to take the decision independently.  Schools seem to differ on this.

Is 11.1 the moyenne for the year, or just for this term?  You are right in thinking that they will look at progress over the year.  However you'll be shooting yourselves in the foot if you mention your other son having similar results and doing his bac, I think, because we supposed to consider each case individually.  (although perhaps you are just saying it on here and it is not an argument you planned to use.) I have one this year who is convinced she is going to go to lycée and do a STG bac, because her sisters both did that and had similar results, but she is not going to get through, her results are too low, and her parents are going to contest it, and they will lose;  I'm not saying it is the same thing in your case, my pupil has more like 7 than 11... 

It is going to hing on how low is French mark is, on how you explain his Spanish mark, because really, for a second language, in the first two years, it is just about learning by heart, so the panel will be wondering what the problem is.   Is his first language, (LV1) English or does he have another (German??).  Is it his first time in 3ème and is he in the right year group for his age?  This could make a difference.  Good luck anyway, this sort of thing is very nerve wracking at the best of times.

[Mistral]

Lollie, I have to say that most principaux don't overturn decisions made by the conseil de classe. They have the right to do so but most of them consider that the teachers know the pupils much better than they do, so are capable of judging the situation better. Don't forget that the conseil de classe is chaired by either the principal or his ajoint so he would have been involoved in the original decision.

I was part of a comission d'appel last year (4eme) and it was very interesting to see how it happens. First of all you have to know that you won't have very long to make your point. I think it works out as about 12 minutes per pupil. The conseil should (should) have been given the moyennes for the last year, so they should be able see for themselves exactly any progress. The prof principal (or other teacher from the class) will almost certainly be asked for the grades in the brevet blanc. He will also probably be asked if he has met up with you during the year and at what point he informed you that a passage was going to be difficult (I seem to remember you posting about an avis reservé at 2nd trimestre, that was you wasn't it?)

To give you an idea, a comission d'appel will almost certainly decide on a redoublement if the pupil hasn't already retaken a year. For a child who has already retaken they will look at the advantage of doing another 3eme compared to going to 2de. If  a pupil has struggled in French, Maths, LV1 or histoire-géo this year, 2nde will probably be tough so those grades will be important. 11.1 as a MG won't really mean anything if the grades in those 4 subjects are low.  Plus whatever option he wants to do (i.e. if he's looking at doing ISI or MPI he'd better have good grades in maths)

So what can you do/say? You will need to explain why you think your son is ready to go up to 2nd (and why 2nd G as opposed to 2nd pro) Any progress over the year is a good sign. Dipping on the 2nd term is pretty standard, so you'll want to prove that he has regained a good level this term. You will need to explain why you don't think he should retake. This is tricky. Parents telling us that it would upset their children, that they would miss their friends or that their kids are tall so would feel uncomfortable don't have much effect. As Tourangelle says, using an older child as an example probably isn't a good idea. It has to be in relation to your son.

I can't think of anything alse at the moment

[Tourangelle]

So, Lollie, how did it go today?

[Lollie]

Hi

I wish I knew!!!!!!

I didn't expect it to be a panel of 12!!!!  plus my son, myself Prof; Principle plus Orientation Prof.

Basically Prof Princ. said her bit, then Orietation siad hers, then I spoke a little, then they asked my son many questions plus asked the PP questions, such as, how all the class behaved, what levels all other sudents were, how many had passed through, year of birth for my son, future plans, etc.

One of the panel actually called me this evening, as it was the first case of a foreigner appealing! and they had all found a interesting case with lots of discussion, I suspect he thought I had been given the decision, but realised I had not he waffled on about my son and doubling, so I am guessing we lost.  Still no news is good news.

A bit puzzled at who actually makes the decision, as he seemed to make out evryone made their views but the president made the decision.  Anyone know???  

Lollie

[Tourangelle]

Sorry, no idea, I thought the commission decided together, but I suppose somebody has a casting vote and it must be the president.  I think you get the answer through the school.