What do they do after the Bac?

[Charlotte3]

Hello folks,

I am hoping some of you have already had some experience of this:

My daughter is due to finish lycee this summer after doing her Bac.  She doesn't really want to continue in education and would like to find employment.  However, she is willing to apply for several  BTS courses in case she isn't successful.

I have explained to her that from the moment she leaves school we will no longer receive Allocation Familiale etc for her and so we won't be able to give her any sort of regular monthly income and that she really needs to start making an effort to find work sooner rather than later. So far nothing, absolutely no effort at all.

What I need to know is, when she finishes lycee should (must) she go and register with Assedic etc? Is it ok to do that if she ends up going back to school in September? What are her chances of finding work without Bac+2 etc?

She says that she will work at anything because she wants to get her own flat in town as soon as possible (we live in the country) but won't actually try to do anything about it, which I find really, really frustrating.  

She is a great daughter and I'm hugely proud of her and everything she has achieved here in spite of being a foreigner, but this is causing nothing but arguments and a feeling that she just isn't pulling her weight.

Any advice would be great,

Aly

[Joanna]

The basic answer is that without any add-on to her Bac she's going to find it very difficut to find any jobs other than waitressing, cleaning, being a self employed sales person etc - in other words any job that holds prospects and a salary that pays more than smic.

One of my daughters decided not to continue in education after her bac, two years down the line and after a series of scut jobs she opted to do a BTS and is doing really well - finding out for herself what lay ahead if she didn't get a qualification focused her brilliantly.

Of course if your daughter is really determined and self motivated she'll be fine - my eldest did a stage following around a 20 year old journalist from the local paper and he'd talked himself into a job when he was 17 and hadn't even got his bac so it isn't impossible to get a good job without masses of qualifications, it's a lot easier if you do have them.

I don't see that there'll be any problem registering to find a job then going back to school, lots of students work to supplement their grants, however if your daughter is applying to do BTS's she ought to apply for a bourse at the same time - it doesn't get paid until October at the earliest and you have to supply a certificate de scolarite so it won't do any harm if she decides she isn't going to school after all.

[Gemini_man]

Hi Aly,

It's a problem isn't it!!

I have a daughter who is doing a BTS in Tourism and a son who takes his BAC very shortly. My daughter has signed on with CAF and as she is now over 18 she receives about 200€ per month as a student as she has no income. She also receives 465€ per month (for 9 months of the year), towards her accomodation costs, from CROUS. Until she signed on with CAF I received 150€ per month family allowance (until she was 20 and so long as she was in full time education) - I no longer receive this.

My son takes his BAC in June but as you know we have to decide before then what he might want to do assuming he passes. So, he's just started 2 weeks holiday during which we WILL talk about and decide what he wants to do next year. His choice is to join the British army but his parents are not over-enthusiastic about that! Other options are to join the French army (would mean giving up British nationality and applying for French) or maybe to apply to the Gendarmes. there are other possibilities and I suspect he will end up doing a BTS.

Obviously I don't know about your situation but if your daughter is boursier I would have thought maybe the best option is to consider a BTS for 2 years and if in the meantime she finds a job so much the better. I know you aren't a noob in France [:)] but here's a useful link for the different BTS's available http://tinyurl.com/284gw9 - not all are available in all areas. I can't help with regard to signing on with ASSEDIC as we haven't been down that line but I would be happy to share info with you where I can.

[Kitty]

Charlotte

I have three teenage daughters.  It is difficult to motivate teenagers/young adults, especially when they see you as a meal ticket.  My hunch is that if she is to do a BTS, she has to apply for it herself, otherwise she won't stick it.  How about her working in McDo for a while and see how she hacks the daily drudge of work?  That might spur her onto a further education/training course.

I reckon that the only way that they can afford a flat/house in town is to go into a shared arrangement with 4 or 5 of them.  But again they have to do the running otherwise they get into debt.

Bon courage!

[Just Katie]

Aly,  I cannot comment on French Education System as I live in UK.  However, I can comment on teenagers.  My son also made a decision not to take his A levels claiming that he did not like school.  He is a very bright boy but got bored with school in the last year and, unfortunately left with just 4 GCSE's.  Anyway, we did finally talk him into taking a BTEC award, a vocational 2 year course equivalent to 3 A levels.  He started in September and dropped out at Christmas. Wee then got him a job on the tools and, seeing how much his boss was earning, he decided to go self employed.  He run his little handyman empire for 2 weeks and after not getting paid for his work, he quit.  He then spent his days 'lolling' about around the house and staying in bed.  We did not give him much money but we used our connections to get him jobs when he wanted them which, he would quit after a month or two.

Looking back, the lesson that I have learned is not to give him too much help, just guidance.  He is a typical 18 year old and never takes our advice.  I dont think it has done him any good to organise thing for him either.  We now realise we must stand back and let him make his own mistakes.  He has since found his own job, labouring, which is very poorly paid but he is happy.  In fact he was chuffed the other day because his pecs and abs are shaping up nicely and a bunch of girls from the office opposite were wolf whistling at him.  He is working with older guys who are teaching him rights and wrongs and I think he is learning much more than he learned at school. 

Anyway, back to your daughter of course she knows it all, it is a great attitude to have at that age and believe me, if she is anything like my son, it will only take a few knockbacks to wisen her up.  My son is now talking about doing a foundation course to start a degree.  Do I believe him?  Yes but I think he will do it in his own time he has just discovered the power of cut pecs!![:-))]

[Frenchie]

A BTS is only two more years and her prospects in life woudl be MUCH BETTER..

I teach in BTS , and most of our students have a job as soon as they got the exam, because if their tutors have been happy with them during their work placements, most of the time they offer a job to the student after his degree.

What BAC is she taking ?

[Charlotte3]

Thanks everyone for you really helpful responses, it's good to know I'm not alone with this!

Frenchie, she's doing a bac STG and had been hoping to do a BTS in tourism, but due in part to a complete lack of enthusiasm from her teachers, and the fact that she would have to study away from home for which we have no funds, she's now talking about doing sales or management which are both available in Fougeres where she is already at lycee. What do you think? (I should add that she is truly trilingual in English, French and German)

Things came to a head today and we managed to have a good talk with her, without tears etc.  I have told her I expect her to get on the phone tomorrow and contact ANPE etc about seasonal work and she seems willing enough at the moment (of course all that could change if the wind changes direction!). Her father has also applied online on her behalf for work with PGL who have a centre near us..she even took that quite well too!

I don't remember having such a lazy attitude at that age, but perhaps my mother would disagree with me.....and she is lovely really. I'm just fed up with all the worry.

Thanks everyone,

Aly

[Just Katie]

Aly, my thoughts are with you.  You sound as though you have faith in your lovely daughter.  You are a very caring mother and with your guidance behind her it will come right in the end. 

Your daughter reminds me of my son with his lazy attitude and myself and my husband, like you work hard to get things into place for him.  However, they just dont see how lucky they are to have committed parents willing to give them a bunk up the ladder do they? [:D]

[Joanna]

If she gets a place to study away from home in a state lycee she should get a bourse, aide logement etc so the financial burden on you shouldn't be too much.

As far as your daughter doing a BTS in tourism is concerned I would advise her doing it only if she's really keen to work in tourism in the future.  The pay in tourism is lousy and there are a lot of kids doing tourism because they see it as a soft option.  According to my daughter it isn't at all and only those like her who are really enthusiastic are doing well.

If your daughter is trilingual she should definitely go on to get a qualification - if she's really keen to venture into the marketplace has she thought about the idea of doing a BTS on alternance?  Half her time will be spent doing classes, half actually working in an office for which she should get about 60% of smic, so it's pretty hard work but can still be worth it.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Charlotte3"]

Frenchie, she's doing a bac STG and had been hoping to do a BTS in tourism, but due in part to a complete lack of enthusiasm from her teachers, and the fact that she would have to study away from home for which we have no funds, she's now talking about doing sales or management which are both available in Fougeres where she is already at lycee. What do you think? (I should add that she is truly trilingual in English, French and German)

[/quote]

I teach in BTS sales, which is called  BTS NRC  ( Négociation Relation Clients) , and a trilingual student would  have an advantage , obviously. Does she like sales, being in contact with customers ? But if she prefered tourism, couldn't she have a " bourse" to help her pay for her expenses?

You are right to believe in her, our children need to be encouraged and underlining the positive aspects in their personalities can only help them go forward. That's what I do with my students.

If you need any information, please feel free to ask . 

[Deby]

Just a question, is there an option to send her to the UK to stay with a helpful relative to do further study, she could support herself by getting a job.  If she has 3 languages she should be able to find work using her languages at a higher rate than waitressing and her hours could be flexible.  I am thinking call centres tend to offer more flexible working hours in a shift pattern, she would get some business experience as well.

Deby

 

[Val_2]

[quote user="Gemini_man"]Hi Aly,

It's a problem isn't it!!

I have a daughter who is doing a BTS in Tourism and a son who takes his BAC very shortly. My daughter has signed on with CAF and as she is now over 18 she receives about 200€ per month as a student as she has no income. She also receives 465€ per month (for 9 months of the year), towards her accomodation costs, from CROUS. Until she signed on with CAF I received 150€ per month family allowance (until she was 20 and so long as she was in full time education) - I no longer receive this.

My son takes his BAC in June but as you know we have to decide before then what he might want to do assuming he passes. So, he's just started 2 weeks holiday during which we WILL talk about and decide what he wants to do next year. His choice is to join the British army but his parents are not over-enthusiastic about that! Other options are to join the French army (would mean giving up British nationality and applying for French) or maybe to apply to the Gendarmes. there are other possibilities and I suspect he will end up doing a BTS.

Obviously I don't know about your situation but if your daughter is boursier I would have thought maybe the best option is to consider a BTS for 2 years and if in the meantime she finds a job so much the better. I know you aren't a noob in France [:)] but here's a useful link for the different BTS's available http://tinyurl.com/284gw9 - not all are available in all areas. I can't help with regard to signing on with ASSEDIC as we haven't been down that line but I would be happy to share info with you where I can.


[/quote]

My daughter also did her BTS in Tourism Production/Ventes and then went onto University here at Brest which is the only place in the country to do her Licence Professionelle in Tourism Herbergement/Production etc which she passed with a mention. The downside of all these years of extra study is that there are no jobs available here in our dept with over 100 CV's/LM's sent out she finally found work for a very exclusive hotel chain in the UK along with five other french people and is earning well over the basic salary she could have expected here. The amounts the CAF and Crous allocated your daughter was very much the same as mine received and my son also at uni here also receives roughly that amount too - we could never have afford for them both to go to a UK uni had we still been living there. All these extra diplomas are very good for the future and without any sort of qualification at all, work is hard to find here in France.

[Tourangelle]

you are so right, Val.

[Charlotte3]

An update.....

After much discussion (at last) she has phoned Assedic and registered with them from the end of June. The very helpful chap there has forwarded her dossier to Anpe and she has an appointment with them for Monday morning. If she can't find work she will return to school in September to do an STG, probably in NRC, which she thinks might be the best option for her (thanks Frenchie, I appreciate your comments on this).

To return to the UK is not an option for her, but eventually she hopes to live and work in Germany. We have discussed it, but we feel it is a bit on an "easy option" and quite frankly a cop out. We didn't leave the UK just to go running back when things got tough. We simply have to find the best options here in France for her, just like all those French parents with unmotivated teenagers do! Sorry if I seem a bit aggressive, but we as a family feel very strongly about that.

I'll post again after the Anpe visit, hopefully we might find some info helpful to others in or soon to be in the same situation!!

Aly

[Wendy]

I would say that Assedic and ANPE are a continuation of the French education assembly line these days. My son left and returned to Australia (since arriving 'home' 3 months ago he now is studying at college, doing an apprenticeship PLUS has a weekend job...the best thing he ever did was leave here) his brother will be hot on his heels soon due to the non-existent prospects in this land. Fortunately my three younger sons will not have to endure the frustration my two elder sons have had to endure.

You might just have to face the fact that the 'best options' will never appear here for your kids. Maybe you do not want to go running back...but it might be the best thing for your kids to do in the end.  They are starting out in life...you are not. I feel you are trying to hold your kid back in order to make your life here work. If she wants to go to Germany then let her. Its her life.

And if thats aggressive then I am not sorry...but its fact.