Jump to content

Do your kids enjoy school?


Catherine
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello - I'm moving to Ariege in July with my kids who will be 4 and 6 by then and having read this:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/alphamummy/2008/02/jenny-colgan-fa.html

am having a momentary panic about whether they are going to have a horrible time at school. Just wondered how long yours took to settle in/if you wish you had stayed in teh UK school-wide/something else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Catherine

My daughter started school here almost 2 years ago and to begin with it was very difficult because of the language and missed out on a huge amount of lessons simply because she had no understanding of what was being taught ie most subjects!.......To be honest her day was either filled with maths or she was left to do some quiet colouring by herself.  The school provides a floating teacher who works in the area to come and spend just a few hours a week with her by herself and to teach her the language skills required.  There are 3 other British children at the school who have not benefitted from this because they are much younger and the opinion at this school seems to be that they will manage by themselves because of their age. The first year was tough, however she learnt a huge amount of French if nothing else and now in her second year understands everything and can participate in all lessons and is off to college in September. 

My daughter enjoys school now especially the fact that its a 4 day week, loves the fact that she comes home for lunch everyday and is doing well and achieving good results again.  What she would like to see is a bigger variety of lessons and have art, music, more sport etc as these generally are not taught at her school but just squeezed in by the teachers from time to time.   I've even offered to help the teachers (for no cost) with art and some english but although the teachers are keen, the system is too complicated to allow them to take up my offer (i'm not a teacher).  The town where we live offer these clubs though so she can still participate on Wednesdays or Saturdays and has a choice of what she would like to do etc. However the school has amazed me and which is absolutely wonderful,  they give the children sailing lessons once a week from May to September for a full day and now she is  begging me for a boat of her own!...............Its taken time for her to settle in to this new life but she is happy now.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is pleasent to hear of your positive experiences and that your daughter has had help. You have also the benefit of having access to facilities.  Your location is the key thing, there are wide variations is France and the OP would need to check out what is available in her area.

Remember school closes end of June, so I would recommend a visit well before the term finishes and takes time to visit the school and her local area to see what is available, the you can be assured.

Deby

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

It really does depend on the school and the teacher.  My son's current teacher is great, she's young and outgoing and has them doing all sorts of unusual projects, so much so in fact that I've heard the odd gumble from the French parents about it being very 'out of the norm'.   He plays rugby, goes orienteering, makes things out of wood, cross country,hand ball etc. all in the school day so no real shortage of sport here.  This is our second primary school having changed areas and the first was less 'sporty' although they did have swimming lessons every week as there was a pool in the town.  So chose the area and school carefully, they will ony use facilities that are very local to them as transporting kids around costs money they don't have.  As per the othe response if sailing was available here, or ski-ing or whatever they would do it, if nothing was here they would do nothing.

On the teasing element, this does certainly happen and even though my son has been here for 5 years and is totally fluent he still gets teased on occasion, he told me just the other day that one child (bit of a thug) told him to go to the back of the line as the french should be first in France!  It doesn't help that he is generally top of the class and in France results or notes for tests are made a big thing of so the whole class knows who was top and who was bottom.

Panda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I'd probably agree with much that was written in the comments section of that article regarding the downside of schooling in France.

We've been in France for 3.5 years having moved over when our children were 6 and 8. Neither got any extra help with their French either in primaire or college so don't take extra help for granted and find out first whether or not your child will get it.

My daughter enjoys school here (she's in CM2) but the style of teaching suits her. She loves to memorise her lecons and be the one to stand up and recite them word perfect. She's in the top 3 in her class including for French, which I find quite bizarre. Both the top children are English.

My son is another matter. He really, really hates it. He's very bright but a kinaesthetic learner - ie learns through doing. This means that for the sciences, where there is a lot of pupil involvement, he has excellent marks but for the subjects like history and geography, where they sit for hours and are talked at by the teachers, he doesn't do well. He finds it crushingly boring compared to his school in the UK and would go back in a heartbeat. I honestly feel that if we stay here, he will never reach anything like the potential he would achieve in the UK.

I've honestly been really disappointed with the French system. My experience of it is that it is rigid, narrow and is  one size fits all. There is no outlet for creativity, the children are not encouraged to analyse or question or debate, just to learn and regurgitate. I don't think the French systems requires much more than a good memory to succeed. He has only just started writing creative stories but they are marked more on grammatical correctness than on imaginative content. The curriculum is very narrow and IT teaching is patchy to non-existent (talking about our schools, not necessarily others). Children are tested to within an inch of their lives with the consequence that French students are apparently some of the most stressed in France. France has one of the highest suicide rates in the 15-24 age groups in Europe.

I've also been shocked at the racism at my son's college (in the Lot-et-Garonne) from the surveillants. The non-French children are regularly picked on by them. Also, the behaviour of the students leaves a lot to be desired. My son says that their behaviour is much worse than the UK and certainly the stories I hear not just from him bear this out.

Given the choice, I would put both my children back in the UK system, which in my experience, is head and shoulders above the French one. Others of course may disagree

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mackyfrance"]

My experience of it is that it is rigid, narrow and is  one size fits all. There is no outlet for creativity, the children are not encouraged to analyse or question or debate, just to learn and regurgitate. I don't think the French systems requires much more than a good memory to succeed. He has only just started writing creative stories but they are marked more on grammatical correctness than on imaginative content. The curriculum is very narrow and IT teaching is patchy to non-existent (talking about our schools, not necessarily others). Children are tested to within an inch of their lives with the consequence that French students are apparently some of the most stressed in France. France has one of the highest suicide rates in the 15-24 age groups in Europe.

[/quote]

As with everything else in France, there are historical reasons for the why the French educational system is the way it is.  After the revolution, they had to come up with a way to get rid of all the religious influence on the population, as well as find a way to integrate the thousands of foreigners that had moved into France.  What better way to do that, than by the school system?  They set it up so that no matter where you came from and where you were in France, you would leave the school system eating, breathing and feeling 100% French.  And they did this by rote learning and by teaching that the teacher was always right, no discussion allowed, so that there was no room for deviation.  And all the references to kings & popes, etc where erased and replaced with the names of revolutionary heroes (just look at the street names of most French cities or the names of French schools).  The "marianne" was invented for that reason also - to give the people something else to focus on besides the cross.  

Creativity encourages people to think outside of the box and to question the way things are done, and that's exactly the opposite of what they wanted.  It's really quite genius if you think about it, especially since it

also allowed them to create a future army of fonctionnaires who would

do whatever their superiors told them, without ever questioning it.  :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Creativity encourages people to think outside of the box and to question the way things are done, and that's exactly the opposite of what they wanted.  It's really quite genius if you think about it, especially since it also allowed them to create a future army of fonctionnaires who would do whatever their superiors told them, without ever questioning it.  :-)

This is absolutely true!  The sad thing is the ideal was over 40 years ago - at least two generations, so there is a need now to raise the bar and do things differently.  It does make me happy to hear of the positive things about raising children in France, but there are huge disparities and generally based on good luck for location or a chance that you may stumble on a good teacher! 

We left France because we were thoroghly disheartened by the education system in our village, we looked around locally and the other schools were not much better.  There are good rural french schools but they are in the minority I'm afraid.

Deby

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you Deby. We are in deepest rural France and here is a great example of the problems. The kids in my sons class, 4eme, all had to find a business establishment to accept them for one week for the work experience 'stage' very soon. We traversed a radius of 35 km's looking for somewhere for my son to spend a few mornings/afternoons a week seeing how a business was run. None of the local businesses in the surrounding six villages (radius of 15 km's) were willing to help out. None. Further afield it was the same.

The other kids in his class have had the same problem so, for his class at his school, the 'stage' has been cancelled.

It does not cost these miserable bakers, tabac owners, supermarche/hypermarche, hairdressers,etc a darn centime to give these kids a few hours a week to just sit and watch them at work. Last November my son did the first part of the 'stage' with our neighbour, a vineyard owner, but they are not allowed to do the same job twice.

No wonder the local youth are deserting the rural areas. In my opinion rural France is the pits and only for dreamers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Jura"].

It does not cost these miserable bakers, tabac owners, supermarche/hypermarche, hairdressers,etc a darn centime to give these kids a few hours a week to just sit and watch them at work. .

[/quote]

Actually Jura it does.  To start with the enterises offering the stages are supposed to feed their stagieres, maybe it doesn't amount to much but it still costs.  More importantly the stagieres have to be supervised by one of the other employees, they have to be given work which doesn't put them at any risk, I suspect stagieres wouldn't be allowed in tabacs anyway, the people who are running small business have to cope with someone who knows nothing getting in their way and impeding them getting on with the job etc etc etc.  Sounds miserable?  Maybe.  But if you're a baker (not an easy job at the best of times) the last thing you need on your plate is another hassle in your already hard working life.

In addition there is absolutely no point in doing a stage where the stagiere doesn't do anything but sit and watch - that's just demoralising and boring.  They have to be given work to do and it can take quite a lot of time sorting out suitable tasks for a stagiere, I know since I've done it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Joanna"][quote user="Jura"].

It does not cost these miserable bakers, tabac owners, supermarche/hypermarche, hairdressers,etc a darn centime to give these kids a few hours a week to just sit and watch them at work. .

[/quote]

Actually Jura it does.  To start with the enterises offering the stages are supposed to feed their stagieres, maybe it doesn't amount to much but it still costs.  More importantly the stagieres have to be supervised by one of the other employees, they have to be given work which doesn't put them at any risk, I suspect stagieres wouldn't be allowed in tabacs anyway, the people who are running small business have to cope with someone who knows nothing getting in their way and impeding them getting on with the job etc etc etc.  Sounds miserable?  Maybe.  But if you're a baker (not an easy job at the best of times) the last thing you need on your plate is another hassle in your already hard working life.

In addition there is absolutely no point in doing a stage where the stagiere doesn't do anything but sit and watch - that's just demoralising and boring.  They have to be given work to do and it can take quite a lot of time sorting out suitable tasks for a stagiere, I know since I've done it.

[/quote]

I hate these threads as they tend to bring out extremes which is always so worrying for parents.  Life isn't perfect anywhere and you'll find good and bad in every country. 

I lived in rural devon and our village school was meant to be fantastic... people moved to the area to go there (I'm sure you know the scenario) and it was always always always over subscribed.  I guess many parents loved the push for IT and technology... every child had a computer... lots of supposed indiviudal learning and supposed creative thinking... end result... children were not being taught reading or writing or maths... in our one class during the term we left, five parents took their children out... we all lived in the village but found schools outside the catchment... we ended up paying almost a second mortgatge in private school fees... the UK is not the eutopia some of you make it out to be... It's a great country but far from perfect... thats my view as a parent...

My work brings me in to contact with a great many teachers and educators and there is a general view between them that our system has major flaws too....  I tend to agree... And, finally, as an employer that used to take work experience students... I've stopped... too much red tape and far too much hassle... we now have a blanket 'no' to all comers... it's not France Jura... it's life sadly

OK... minor rant over [:$]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ooops.. forgot to add that I have a 9 year old in school in rural France... the only English child and the first too... the school has been really helpful, he has been given 2 french tutors one in school and one comes to our home (about 4 hours a week in total) and a great deal of his work was customised to suit his needs.  He started in September when he was 8.  It was hard at first but he is finding his feet and he is happy.  He's inviting friends home for tea and joining in much more in class... he's far from fluent but starting to understand and have the confidence to say a little.

There was a boy who teased him in class... he was getting a bit upset so we mentioned it to the teacher... she was already aware... once we left she gave the child a right talking too in front of the class... the teasing stopped.  I would also add that his french friends were very supportive too...

I think maybe we were lucky with our school but I think the same can go for the UK too... [:)]

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Catherine

Having read the replies you've had so far, you're probably not feeling too positive about moving now!  However, our story is that we moved our 4 and 6 year old girls here a year ago, and they started school a week after our arrival.  They were hugely welcomed by the entire school, and although the first few weeks were a bit strange for them, they never got upset about going or the fact that they had no idea what anyone was saying to them.  After the eight week summer holiday, they fitted back in straight away, and have gradually improved with their French since then.  We're not the best example of speaking French at home with them, but even so, they certainly have enough language skills to manage their days.

No special allowances have been made for them, in terms of language, as the teachers don't speak any/much English.  My six year old benefited from being able to read and write already, (they don't learn these skills until they are six here), and so could concentrate on learning vocab instead. She occasionally has been given extra work, more to keep her occupied whilst the others catch up.  She has also been placed in the year above for Maths, to make sure she doesn't get bored repeating work she's already done in the UK.

Your four year old will be in a mainly play environment with simple sticking and pasting exercises, and work on the alphabet and numbers, so it's a comfortable place to be while learning another language.

Their school is rural - 100 pupils spread over four classes, with two school years in each class. Before we arrived, I was concerned this might be a bit odd, but in fact, seems to work really well, especially for encouraging the children to be able to work alone, while the teacher splits his time between the two years.  The children all play across the year groups at playtime (three per day), and the school has a far warmer family feel to their old school in England (which was still a great school).

The teaching does seem more traditional, with having to learn poetry by heart, and getting the handwriting absolutely perfect, and there does seem to be a 'correct' way of doing things, rather than letting children arrive at an answer using their own methods, but with children this age, I don't think they will realise that it's too much different from what they're used to in England!

They don't have access to sailing etc, here, but still do great school trips and have shows etc at the end of term.  My six year old has just come back from a three night classe de mer, where she had a packed programme and a great time. (Even though it was her first time away from us, and she had solid French for four days!)

I've heard of lots of children not settling and being moved to another school etc (which probably doesn't help that unsettled feeling), but I hope you have luck as we did in finding the right school first time.  If possible, be really sure of the local area you want to move to, so even if you are renting/buying or moving, you can do so without them having to change school again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
If you haven't already read this then in addition to all the great practical books there are out there then do read "Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong" as it gives a very good insight into the french educational approach, french school teachers and also how french parents judge educational and career success. French schools are very different to english schools and french parents value entirely different things in a school to how we english parents would judge a school.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
I am sorry that so many of the parents who have written are disappointed with French schools. Having been to English school in the fifties and early sixties I find that French schools are very similar. My daughter who went to school in California had a very different experience not a positive one. Our Grandson went to school in California before he came here 18 months ago. His experience there was less than positive too. They are expected to write their names before they enter Kindergarten, which is not a compulsory year, but most children go to school then. He was also expected to have other skills that are taught in a Pre-school which is free for the poor children, but he fell through the cracks his mother earned too much for him to go and not enough to pay for private Pre-school so he went to school at a distinct disadvantage to the other children in his low-income area school.Since coming here at 7 years old he has blossomed. He was disruptive and failing to learn anything. Their answer was to suspend him from school for every infraction. It doesn't take long for a child who is struggling in school to realise that he can go home if he misbehaves. Here his teacher yelled at him. It only took a few times before he stopped misbehaving.

He is dyslexic and disgraphic which we had long suspected and his teachers in America weren't particularly interested in that at least not enough to have him tested. Not here we spoke with his teacher and he was tested and now is doing well the school gives him extra reading lessons and he goes to the Orthophonist twice a week. Learning cursive writing first has been a big help to him he still struggles with capital letters, but can write an understandable hand now.

Sending him to a high discipline school was the best thing that happened to him. It seems to me that many pupils in English and American schools would benefit from more discipline and less creativity.

Your children at 4 and 6 will do fine they will soon pick up the language although a bit of basic French before they come would be a help.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone, I moved here (in the Jura too) on Christmas day. We used to live in Pembrokeshire, on a farm too. I loved it. My husband's half French and was brought up here till he was 14, then went to Kenya. So, he loves to up sticks and move...a lot!

My 3 children (7, 8, and 10) go to the village school and are bullied every day! This broke my heart as my French is sadly still awful, so I couldn't sort it out. (I dislike relying on my husband all the time, it's simply not my style!

My son is small for his age and that doesn't help. I'm afraid they aren't learning a thing. Their behaviour has turned a bit violent too. We've had a word with the teacher and things have calmed down a little...but still!

Now we are moving again because I was cracking up; don't get me wrong I love the Jura, but not to live.

We're going to give Corsica a bash!

I love the locals here too, everyone has been very helpful. But after 2 non-summers in Wales, I am looking forward to a warmer one this year. And I hope the children's new school will be less traumatic.

Petra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
[quote user="Rumpole"]I am sorry that so many of the parents who have written are disappointed with French schools. Having been to English school in the fifties and early sixties I find that French schools are very similar. [/quote]

With all due respect Rumpole, education has moved on considerably since the 50s and 60s so to say that French schooling is stuck about 40 years ago isn't much of a recommendation. I don't think the 50s and 60s were particularly the glory years in British education being as it was narrow and aimed only at the more academic.  Personally I don't see any similarities myself. French schooling is rigid, prescriptive and bears little relevance to the global marketplace we live in today. Standards in French schools are considerably below many other EU countries, including some of the Eastern European ones. In my experience discipline is worse here than the UK except in the worst inner city schools - and yes we live in the country not the town.  Have a look at the league tables for violence in French schools. It will make your hair stand on end!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the 50s and 60s were particularly the glory years in British education being as it was narrow and aimed only at the more academic. 

I think that is a huge generalization and as someone who attended school during those years I am wondering what you are basing your information on ? We had the opportunity to do rural studies, art, music, domestic science, needlework, woodwork etc as well as the usual academic subjects and that was in common with other schools - Secondary Modern, Comprehensive and Grammar.

In addition those who wanted to, could leave school at age fifteen and take up an apprenticeship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm basing my information on the fact that I was at school then, well the 60s at least. I wish my children got the chance to study domestic science, needlework and woodwork still, there's a surfing option in the bac now so who knows what will be next!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A surfing bac, really?  I wonder who dreamt that one up, not much use to the majority of kids looking for employment later, but a good way to keep them in education a bit longer I suppose.  Was that specific to your area Ginger?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read about it in the papers. It's specific to Bordeaux/Atlantic area. Goodness only knows what good it does you in the future unless you want to teach surfing. It gets more like the UK every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...