French education/Uk University

[Barbel Bob]

Hi,

Our son is in 3eme and has been in discussions with his school regarding his future education....they have given us various options on how he can become an architect in France all of which is not going to be easy for him.(He started school here in France in 4eme) They have said he will find it much easier to attend university in the UK. We have spoken to him about this and he wants to continue with his French education with the possibility of him attending University in UK at the age of 18.

Does anyone know a child who has done this? how easy would this be? does a UK uni recognise French qualifications?

We are only in the very first stages of planning so any advice/help would be appreciated, whilst we continue in our research.

J

[ontheway]

i  know  that  they  accept  french qualifications  in  english  universities  as  my  friends  daughter  did  it.  could  not  get  a  student  loan

though  as  she  had  not  been  a  british  resident  for  the  prior  three  years.

[cooperlola]

My niece and nephew both did this (school in France 'til the age of 18, then uni' in the UK), and the second nephew is following in their footsteps.  The bac' seems to be acceptable and understood by UK unis.  In fact I know that Sevenoaks school (in the UK obviously) offers the bac' as an alternative to A levels and so I guess other British schools do too.

[Debnfamily]

If you haven't been resident for the previous 3 yrs, wouldn't you treated as a foreign student and have to pay fees?

[ontheway]

doesn't  everyone  pay  fees  now  for  their  education  at  that  level.  it  was  the  loan  that  my  friend  wanted  for  her  daughter,  but 

they  could  not  have  one.  they  tried  to  get  some  help  in  france  but  i  don't  think  that  they  did.

[Berlioz]

We got the following information from our Daughter's IB coordinator at her International School  which proved to be almost correct.  We applied to the university of Cardiff  and therefore the the Cardiff LEA (her first choice) but due to a anomaly in the rules regarding uni in Wales for non welsh students they sent the application on to Suffolk (where we moved from in summer 2006) Eventually her student finance came through.  Other parents have got finance exactly as below.  I had to call Wales and Suffolk a few times as there was initially a bit of confusion when the system was first introduced.  We found the information on the Student Finance site did not cover this subject correctly although I expect by now it was been corrected.

 

Information about eligibility for student finance in the UK.

This message is for the parents of  year 13 students who are UK citizens only

As I explained at the H Ed meeting, UK citizens even if living in France are eligible for student loans in addition to the loan to cover fees which all EU citizens are entitled to but ONLY IF THEY SPEND AT LEAST ONE DAY BACK IN THE UK BEFORE THEIR COURSE STARTS

In order to access this, UK citizens living in France should ignore the EU7N Student loan form that they will receive but instead download for PN1 from Student finance direct and apply using this to the LA (Local Authority) where they will be studying or if they have already moved back to the UK to the  LA where they live

If anyone from the LA queries this, quote the following:

Education Student Support Regulations 2006

Amendment 955

Paragraph N° 8

Effective from 30/04/2006

 

Provided  the student and his/her parents were originally settled in the UK and have lived in the EU for three years before the start of the course, and the student arrives in the England at least 1 day before 1^st  September then the student can be classed as a Home student rather than an EU student

 

[Barbel Bob]

Thanks to everyone...at least we know this is a possiblility, we have another meeting at the school on the 4th May for our final decision. Thank god my son knows what he wants to do in the future as it seems awful early to be deciding his next 7yrs!!!

The student fees will be a worry for us both though.

J

[Lollie]

My son arrived here in 4eme, took his BAC and is now at Uni of Brighton,   He completed the student finance loan forms, and sent them back to the LA where he is studying, he received the student loan for the fees, maintenance loan for living costs and a maintenance grant also, not to be paid back.  This was last year.  He will complete all the forms again this year.  I do not know what the euro sterling conversion is though for working out his grant against our salaries.

Still Uni fees  in the UK are now £3200 each year, plus uni accommodation of approx £4000, his loan will be bigger than our mortgage very soon!!

He didnt move over to the UK until the end of September when he started his course; 

 

 

 

 

[Gemini_man]

Hi BB,

A little food for thought:

if your son were to do his Uni studies in France then depending on your income he could be able to obtain a bourse from Crous which would cover his accomodation costs, he would also be able to obtain benefit from CAF of currently 106 euros per month to help with his living costs. As far as I am aware there would be no University fees to be paid. However if he needed it, as a student and following a new decree in September 2008, he would be able to obtain a deferred bank loan, in his own right, at currently 4.2% from BNP - other banks may be different. The purpose of the loan is irrelevant and for up to 21,000 euros no caution is needed from the parents. Above that figure parents have to sign a caution. The deference is a maximum of 5 years before the start of repayment and then 3 possibly 4 years for completion of repayment. This is based on what BNP have told my daughter who is starting a Masters degree at a Business School in September.

[Lollie]

My son also took advantage of the loan system here with CA but we had to agree to be guarantors.  The first four years you pay the interest only, then you have six years after to pay of the loan, however 4.2 is beginning to look a little high!

On another note, to obtain all the loans etc in the UK you must have a NI insurance number,   which proved complicated for my son, as they will not send this abroad, so he had to wait until he had his Uni address before they would send out his number, therefore he was delayed in receiving his payments.   It was also the same opening a UK student bank account!  But you get there in the end. 

My son is studying journalism,  three year course in the UK,  at least six years after the BAC here!!  So I think it is a case of swings and roundaboutts.

 

 

[Sprogster]

Another possible factor is that the University system in the UK is the one area of education which is generally considered internationally better than the French system, which is suffering from decades of chronic underfunding. British Universities have more flexibility to generate additional income through research, fees and commercial bursaries. Not such an issue if you are going to follow a career in France, but a factor if you are looking to work internationally, not to forget the language advantage of a UK or USA University education, with English being the international language of business.

My understanding is that issue is a high priority for President Sarko to reform, but is so far being thwarted by the militant French students.

[Mackyfrance]

Having been to University in France and the UK, the only comment I would make is that you get what you pay for.

You could opt for French Uni, get all the benefits and pay next to nothing but what you get at the end is pretty much the same - next to nothing whereas a UK or US Uni education will provide a more internationally accepted and respected qualification. All depends what you want to do afterwards.

Also, can I point out that the IB and the French Bac are not the same thing at all. Even the French Bac with Option Internationale is not considered the same as the IB and has much less status.

I believe that you need a note of 14 in the French Bac for most university entrance in the UK but others may know better.

[Lollie]

The option Internationale Bac is very different to the International Bac,  and much more work than the French Bac,  Its status is not less!  in fact its the most difficult to achieve, particularly Bac S plus option,  its just not well known in the UK as yet.  None of the Universities my son applied to had heard of it,  most offered this with a 10 or 12 plus higher for the internationale part. Information is now available via UCAS. 

For those who dont know what it is,   its a french bac  L  ES or S  plus  English Lang, Lit, History and Geography,  equivalent to A levels in those subjects.   Hence you study approx an extra 6 hours per week in Lycee, having also studied an extra 5/6 hours per week in college.   Several states schools in France now offer this as an option.

Lollie

[Mackyfrance]

Lollie, it may not have less status in France, which doesn't recognise the IB anyway, but it certainly has less status in UK and US universities and among global employers.

[odile]

Often people do not realise the importance of the personal profile of students when applying to Uni in UK. An excellent student reference, but mainly an interesting personal statement, showing interest and experience in the subject chosen, and part taking in extra curricular activities like music, sport, voluntary work, committees, etc - can carry great weight. The 'I like to go out with my friends and travel' often go on the 'no' or 'maybe' pile, almost irrespective of results. Make sure that if you children study in France they build up a portfolio of activities which will show a keen intererest both in the subject and the world around them. One of my daughters didn't get the Grades expected - but was taken because she had impressed with her profile and when visiting the Uni.

As an example, medicine. In France the 'best' academic students are selected. In the UK, a student with 4 Grade A's may not get in if s/he cannot demonstrate empathy and human qualities. Same with Vet medicine, where sustained work experience with animals is essential to get a place.

[Lollie]

Odile,

 

I absolutely agree,   no examination has a higher status than an other for universities,  it depends on each individuals application and their grades obtained in their specific examiniations.

My son has wanted to be a sports journalists.  Whilst studying for his bac he translated into english a daily diary online for a french windsurfer sailing across the indian ocean,  which no doubt helped his application,  when described in his personal statement.

 

 

[odile]

Too many parents are unaware of the importance of the personal statement and the weight of an interest in relevant (to subject) or other 'meaningful' activities which can be backed up by references and insight into experience gained. The ex Head of UCAS used to come and visit our 6th Former and outline this very strongly.

[Suze01]

[quote user="Barbel Bob"]Hi,

Our son is in 3eme and has been in discussions with his school regarding his future education....they have given us various options on how he can become an architect in France all of which is not going to be easy for him.[/quote]

Obviously he will need to get through Lycée first.  Just out of interest, as we're in the same departement, which lycée/course has he applied for (should have submitted his choices in the last couple of weeks).  My son is also in 3° now and has applied to Albert Claveille (arts appliqués - which includes architecture) but places are limited, several years ago my neighbour's son did the same course and there were something like 150 applicants for 30ish places, so applicants will have to have to have a very good report from collège/brevet (with mentions).  Has he sent a letter of motivation to the lycée?  Not strictly necessary now but will help IMO. My son missed the open day at the lycée because it clashed with returning from Spain with the collège so he applied for and did a whole day there in-class which was excellent and confirmed his choice.

Good luck with his education, I'm on tenterhooks now until early July when we'll hear what lycée he has got in to.