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Mixed abilities in the class !


Sara
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Another question that I would like to raise please, as I am' thinking' about going back to the UK for my son's 2ndry education (in 4 yrs time) . I would like to make sure that I understand the french system before rushing back as my hubbie is very keen to stay in France.

Anyway I learnt today that if Jac goes to the local 'private' college/lycee there are only 3 classes per year and every class has mixed abilities. Which is the same system for his school at the moment. Whereas I can understand it in CE1, as they're all just starting to learn but at college surely this is madness?!

Also surely you are going to get the kids who do not want to learn sitting at the back or just causing trouble. I can see Jac's bullying just continuing.......

According to my friend this is exactly what is happening, a boy in her daughters class disrupts the lessons every day until he is suspended for a week he then goes back to lessons and starts causing havoc again....

Is this common in France ? In the public schools is this the same system? It sounds like England in the 1950's. Common sense say's this system cannot work.

If you have any experience of this or knowledge could you help me please.

Many thanks

Sara
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Isn't it the same in the UK?  I know there is streaming for different subjects, but for selection by ability for all subjects, surely you need a grammar school?  And I am not convinced that disruptive pupils are always the ones who find a subject difficult and cannot keep up.  I am prepared to be corrected ...

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[quote user="Sara"]It's a shame to hear that all school's in France have a system that obviously can not really work that well.

Many thanks[/quote]

Presumably you also went to a school in a system that didn't work very well, as you seem incapable of distinguishing between a possessive 's' which takes an apostrophe, and  a plural 's' which doesn't.

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Norman - yes - you rumbled me- 'clever you' - I don't know whether you can understand the point that I am trying to raise Norman? Children that do not want to learn and do not try, should not stop the ones that are doing well and therefore should be in a different class with extra help if they need it or want it.

I went to the local comprehensive- but even at that school we had sets. I was lucky and I was in all the classes where children wanted to learn and respected the teachers.

It must be very worrying if you have a child who could be dyslexic or has learning difficulties . I know of an english lady who has a child (here in France) who is showing all the signs of dyslexia and the school cannot identify that she has this. (I know for a fact she would not disrupt the class she would more likely be sitting quietly)Instead of trying to help her they have held her daughter back twice to redo the school year in exactly the same way as before. She has always struggled but has not received any 'real' help. Her daughter will soon be 11 and she has just been refused entrance to college in September. They believe she needs to go to a special school with children with 'all disabilities'. She has had the dyslexic tests but even the experts here in France can or have not given her a proper diagnosis. Her parents do not know what to do and are now seriously thinking about returning to England where they can find help-

Incidentally anyone watch the programme last night on dyslexia BBC1 - ?

Fi - I have only heard of England having sets- as I mentioned before I only went to a comprehensive and I was in a set for every subject and to my knowledge this was the same for all the schools in my area at that time.

If we return to England I have investgated two 2ndry schools and they use the same system- so sorry If I have misread the situation. Perhaps it is different up in the North of England?

Norman - I haven't done a spell check perhaps you could run your eye over the post...........
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Sara you are right about comprehensive schools teaching their children in sets. For one thing it makes the organisation so much easier because if you have all your maths teachers teaching Year 9 at the same time it makes things easier. It enables you to give specialist support in the lower sets.

The girl you write about would have an individual plan if she were in an English school and it would be passed from her primary school to her secondary school.

I'm not quite sure why you think it would be different in the north. The school I retired from just achieved 88% in the league tables and did well in the baccalaureate stakes too. Every teacher in that school was expected to do at least a small proportion of support teaching every week.

Hoddy

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Dear Hoddy many thanks yr comments.

I do not know if it is different up in the North of England, that is why I asked the question. I have only lived in the south of England but after the comment of Fi who thought schools apart from Grammar Schools (notice spelling of Grammar - Norman) did not set stream for 'other' lessons it made me wonder if it was different in other parts of the country.

Sorry did n't mean to upset anyone, it was just a question.......
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[quote user="Cendrillon"]"Incidentally anyone watch the programme last night on dyslexia BBC1 - ?"

Yes Sara, I thought it was excellent and very interesting.
[/quote]

Me too - very enjoyable and interesting program, glad to see how different methods of teaching can make life so much easier for sufferers

 

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Sara

There is a regular, and wise, contributor to this forum called Idun. She now lives in England but spent many years in France. She has a dyslexic child and has a wealth of experience of dealing with the French education authorities, most of it to her great dissatisfaction.

I don't know whether you will be able to find any of her old posts, which she made under the name of TeamedUp, or whether she will see your post and respond to it. You might try to send her aprivate message.

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If the child is dyslexic (or it is suspected that she is), has the school be asked about organising an appointment with the psychologue scolaire?  We went through this a year or so ago with my (then) 10 year old daughter who was having huge problems with numbers..  They were talking about her going to a college with a special needs class.  However, the PS said she didn't have dyscalculia or any other identifiable problems, but she did have a huge lack of confidence which was affecting her schoolwork.  Some sessions with a child psychologist were organised and she is now on track for her age group.  She will "redoubler" CM2 (understandable as she has had to learn a whole new language as well as her schoolwork in the last 2 years), but there is no more talk of special needs classes.

Re the sets/streaming thing, I was merely trying to point out that having children grouped by ability is no guarantee that there will be no disruptive elements within the group, which I thought was the point of first post.....

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Hello Sara

In the UK, in my experience, we do have mixed classes in some small village schools, the same as occurs in France, I am not however aware of a single mixed secondary school but then again I didnt know they existed in France either.  In fact I know of a number of kids who had to travel a great distance to college because there were no local small colleges so I think your private example is not that common.

I would not want my child to enroll in this system either, the mixed primary in the Alps was enough for me but then that was a single class for the whole school!! 

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Hello , I don't know whether this bit of information will help any parents who have children about to start college in September this year but I heard that if their children take the subjects German and then afterwards take Latin they will then more likely to have better behaved kids in the class. This apparrently is the only way round the problem as the little ' S***S are not interested in these subjects.

Once you are studying for these subjects you are then kept with the same children for 'all' subjects......- Might just be the school here but thought I would share this info ...

Sarah
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  • 1 month later...
This was not my experience at all. The brighter children were selected to do Latin however it was done as an additional lesson and all other lessons were with the rest of their class.

All classes were mixed ability, one of the reasons we returned to the UK as it didn't work for my eldest.

In their secondary school here they are streamed from the middle of year 7. It seems to work very well.
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Both my kids were in the 'german' class, seemed little point in doing basic english when they both spoke it as well as their teacher. Was it better, nah not really. However, my eldest son was rather gifted at language rather than ecrivage, so was the best german speaker in the class, and not so hot when he wrote it.......... devine how they treat him??????

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