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Etiquette of addressing a letter to school?


Daft Doctor
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Hi, just need to know the best way of correctly addressing a letter to a school. I am busy writing to some local schools ahead of our move to France in the Spring to discuss placing my son Jack. The question is whether I should address the letter to the Directeur/Directrice impersonally or if I know the name of the current head teacher, is it ok and/or better to address it to them personally, even though we haven't met? I just want to make sure that I get an answer, as in the case of one of the schools past emails haven't yielded any response. In the UK either would do as long as there hadn't been a change in personnel, but etiquette may be different in France and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot! Thanks as always for any advice.
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hi, why do you want to write a letter to the school? not sure how it works in england but here you do not get much choice.Depending on where you live you go to the mairie( if it's maternelle or primaire) with all the paperwork (vaccinations, proof of address etc) and the child goes to the local school. If it is for the college (senior school) then you need to contact the mairie to find out which one the other children in your area go to . If you are considering private school then they usually have certain dates for inscriptions for the following year, you would be best ringing them as I doubt very much that they will reply to a letter or email , is it not the same in england that you go to the school that is nearest to your home? If you want him to go to a different school I think you have to ask for a 'derogation'.

I doubt very much that you will actually beable to do anything until you have moved here as you need a proof of address. In france you just go to the mairie or college on arrival there is no actual planning beforehand, this is probably why you have not had a reply from any of your emails. They are probably wondering why you are sending them emails.

Not too sure what you want to discuss with them but I  think it would be better to send an email to the inspection acadamique ,you have more chance of getting a reply and they are better placed to answer any questions you might have.

Sorry to be so negative but I'm afraid that's how schools are over here, there is no planning ahead.

Lisa

 

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Thanks lisa, it revolves around wanting to hold our son back a year.  He has a December 7th birthday, so should start in CM2 after easter.  We want to hold him back to start in CM1 then progress to CM2 in September with the same group of pupils, in so doing having at least 4 terms is primaire before going to college.  Part of the writing to the school was explain that to the head and see if it could be accommodated rather than try to do it ad hoc when we arrive.  I realise they might say 'we'll see', but I thought it would be a decent thing to do to write anyway.  If people think its a waste of time of course we would reconsider.

There is a private and public school in town, one answers email and one doesn't.  That's why I thought a letter would be best, with an invitation to email any reply.  Any thoughts?

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[quote user="lisa"] If you want him to go to a different school I think you have to ask for a 'derogation'.[/quote]

For both college and now primary(from this year) you can choose your school as long as the chosen school has places and agrees to take the child. The académie will provide the necessary derogation, but it is now more a rubber stamping exercise.

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Hi, I don't think you'll have any problem with them holding your son back a year, my son should have been in cm2 ( according to the french system) when we moved back here but I just told them that he had to be in cm1 as although he was fluent in french he could not read and write it (we moved to england when he was 3), they had no problems with this and did not even question it. he has a december 6 birthday . Also in england  he was actually in  the equivalent to cm1 as the age system is not the same as here, they count from september as here it is december so he didn't really mind. For the private school, a lot of them do not take pupils during the year and you have to go and fill out the forms before a certain date for the following september ( if they have space). I'm speaking from experience of a private school in my area but it might be different in the area you are moving to.

Lisa

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Hi Lisa, your experience is very encouraging, thank you. I was just a little concerned leaving things til we arrived and at my ability to explain things to the head teacher face to face in French, so drafted a letter and had it translated by my son's French tutor. It sounds as though sending anything in advance would indeed be a waste of time however. I will just try to get my point across in April and hopefully as a lot of French children redouble in any case there won't be any problem getting Jack held back.

The reason I emailed the local state school was that I got the impression that one of the teachers was designated to assist non-francophone children and so I asked what they usually could offer in the way of support. I didn't get a reply to 2 emails.

So if I have it right, we turn up with Jack at the school on first day of summer term, unannounced, ask to see the head teacher, tell her we are living in town, show her evidence and ask that Jack be enrolled? We produce vaccination and health records and ask that as he doesn't have good French and so he gets a minimum of 4 terms in Primaire we want him to be held back a year to start in CM1.

Sounds easy enough, a few rehearsals in front of a mirror may be necessary, though I guess I could always hand over something written as well as speaking directly. If you've any other thoughts please let me know.
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It may depend on the size of the town, but I  am surprised at the thought of just turning up on the day.

Here all is sorted out for September well before the end of the summer term, but it is a town of around 80,000.

Last year I was involved with helping a family who wanted to appeal against the decision to hold back their daughter in the Primaire, as they wanted her to move on to Collège with her friends.

They won that, but she didn't get into the nearest collège as there were no places left by the time the decision was finally taken...

In fact I am not convinced they made the right choice to insist on moving her, but I was only the messenger.

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Hi Norman, yes we land at Easter, so Jack will start school when the hols finish (in our neck of France) on 23rd April.  I'm not sure about just turning up on the day either, that is I suppose why I wanted to write to warn them that we were coming and so arrange things for the summer term a bit in advance.  The town only has 5,000 inhabitants and the school is not oversubscribed, with all classes under 25 pupils at present, so hopefully fitting him in won't be much of a problem.  I guess we are wanting the reverse of what your family wanted to do, but most people don't seem to think it will be a problem?

Still don't know who to write to if at all, or whether to try to see someone personally when we are over at the beginning of January?  As I said, just turning up on a busy first day back at school needing attention doesn't seem the best way of giving the right impression.  

 

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Hi, you could go and see them when you come over in January just to make contact but usually when a person moves during the school year they go to the mairie when they move in, take all the appropriate paperwork , the mairie then tells you to go to the school. Obviously as he speaks very little french they may ask for a couple of days to sort it out, then again if you move during the school holidays you can go to the mairie and get all the paperwork done and then your son can start on the first day back. We moved back to france in february 2003 and my son who was in primary school started the next after we had been to the mairie. My niece, aged 6, had to stay with me for a couple of months last year I just went to the mairie and the next day she started school even though she spoke no french at all. As for redoubling a year, this is the parents choice and not the teachers. The teacher recommends it but if the parents say no then the child goes into the next year, some people do not realise this ( french included). I know of at least one occasion here where it was decided to hold certain children back because of class numbers and not on school work . The teachers are not always right and this is up to the parents to decide if their child is able to cope with the following year.Jack being an end of year child you should have no problems getting him kept back a year, I have 3 end of year children and at some point the 2 oldest redoubled . Also you are lucky if there are under 25 pupils per class, my daughter started in cp this year and they were 27 ( I am now homeschooling her), the cm2 are 32 pupils!

good luck in your move and do not worry about doing the paperwork at the last minute, We have moved many times ,my oldest daughter changed school 4 times in france before she got to junior school , and I just went to the mairie each time for the inscriptions.

Lisa

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Good luck, but do not assume that what works in one Academie will work in another...

What did you think of my links about the work your son will have to do?

Here in French so you can practise your vocabulary is what you have to do: (it mentions April for the following September for example)

Démarches pour les enfants n'ayant jamais été scolarisés en maternelle

Pour inscrire leur enfant, les parents doivent d'abord s'adresser à leur mairie, en présentant :

  • le livret de famille, une carte d'identité ou une copie d'extrait d'acte de naissance de l'enfant,

  • un justificatif de domicile,

  • un document attestant que l'enfant a subi

    les vaccinations obligatoires

     pour son âge ou justifie d'une contre-indication.

A l'issue de l'inscription, la mairie délivre un certificat.

Pour enregistrer définitivement leur enfant, les parents doivent ensuite se présenter à la direction de l'école, munis :

  • du certificat d'inscription délivré par la mairie,

  • du livret de famille, d'une carte d'identité ou d'une copie d'extrait d'acte de naissance de l'enfant,

  • d'un document attestant que l'enfant a subi les vaccinations obligatoires pour son âge ou justifie d'une contre-indication.

Les inscriptions ont lieu parfois dès le 1er semestre de l'année précédant la rentrée scolaire.

Se renseigner en mairie suffisamment tôt

(dès le mois d'avril)

pour connaître les dates d'inscription et les pièces à fournir

, notamment en cas d'inscription Ã©galement à la cantine ou à la garderie.

Si l'enfant ne change plus d'école, l'inscription ne sera pas à renouveler tous les ans.

For the child newly arrived in France from abroad see this page

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1866.xhtml

an extract:

Affectation des élèves et fonctionnement des classes d'accueil

L'enfant nouvellement arrivé est

inscrit dans les

classes

ordinaires de l'école

maternelle

  ou

élémentaire

.

L'inscription administrative à l'école doit être

effectuée par les parents (ou le responsables de l'enfant). Elle se fait

en mairie, puis auprès du directeur d'école.

L'école maternelle n'est pas obligatoire, mais elle peut être profitable aux plus jeunes.

A l'école élémentaire (du CP au CM2), obligatoire,

les élèves concernés sont regroupés dans une classe d'initiation (CLIN).

Ils y reçoivent en particulier un enseignement quotidien de français.

L'objectif est que l'élève nouvellement arrivé puisse

intégrer, le plus rapidement, l'ensemble des cours en classe ordinaire

(le plus souvent au bout d'un an).

L'accueil en CLIN est réservé aux élèves de 6 à 11

ans. Toutefois, certains enfants de 12 ans peuvent y être accueillis,

s'ils n'ont pas terminé leur scolarité élémentaire à l'étranger.

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Hi Norman, thanks very much both for the initial links and for that extremely helpful last post.

I did look at the links on what is expected and although the French would clearly be a problem the Maths certainly wouldn't be. Jack's best and favourite subject is Maths and of course numbers behave the same in any language. Will need to pull together his vaccination record. Is the Livret Famille something unique to the French? Will our passports do for that? Sorry for more questions!
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Just be aware that numbers might work the same but the ways of manipulating them can vary significantly. My wife (French) tried to help our son with long division and was totally flummoxed by the method used in England at that time. As I understand it, french schools are hot on doing things the official way, so you can't expect them to say 'it's OK if he gets the right answer anyway'.

It would probably be worthwhile getting copies of the standard text books well in advance so that you can suss out problems like this.

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Hi, do you know you can buy the school books from the fnac? They have all the levels from cp to terminal , this would probably give you a good idea of the level over here.( some of the books are the same as in schools), the site is www.fnac.fr , they deliver to the uk.
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You may well need a 'livret de famille' on numerous occasions.

It is basically the collection of Birth/Marriage/Death/Divorce certificates for your family, starting at least with you and your wife's parents, and probably translated into French for those of you living here.

Here is the index page of mine, a relatively simple one as my  ex_ wife and son don't live in France:

Index

1) un extrait de l'acte de

naissance de XXXXX (père)

2) un extrait d l'acte de décès

de XXX (père)

3) un extrait de l'acte de

naissance de xxxx (mère)

4) un extrait d l'acte de décès

de xxxx Margaret (mère)

5) un extrait de l'acte de

mariage des Parents

6) un extrait de l'acte de

naissance de H Norman

7) Traduction en français de

l'acte de naissance de H Norman

8) Fiche Individuelle d'état

civil de H Norman (no longer needed )

9) Passeport britannique de H Norman

10) la carte de Séjour française

de H Norman (no longer obligatory)

11) un extrait de l'acte de

mariage de H  Norman et CO Nasse

12) un extrait de l'acte de

naissance de H xxxx (fils)

13)jugement de divorce provisoire

de
H  Norman et CO Nasse

14)jugement de divorce définitif

de
H  Norman et CO Nasse

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Just to clarify for anyone who isn't aware, a real Livret de Famille is an official document summarising the history of a marriage, from the aisle to the grave (or the divorce court). You can't get one if you are both foreigners and arrrive in France after your marriage. In that case Norman's list of documents is a sensible starting point.

AND you should have full birth certificates, not the short ones, for anyone actually living in France.The French also have a quaint habit of updating a birth certificate with information about marriage, etc. so don't be surprised if you are asked for a copy made in the last 3 months. Sometimes an explanation suffices, but sometimes you just have to order a fresh copy.

Unless it is specifically demanded don't go to the expense of certified translations by a traducteur assermenté: a typical fee is 30-40€ per document.

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Thanks to you both for the warning, thats hell of a lot of documents to sort out!  In my case I was divorced then remarried 12 years ago, will my decree absolute alone do for the old marriage, or do I have to get the old marriage certificate (if I can).  The present stuff and my parents stuff shouldn't be such a problem, but wow, I didn't think so much would be expected just to prove you are who you are.
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'We' didn't have Livret de Famille as we were born and married in the UK. I have yet to hear of anyone in our situation who has had one, or requested one.

For the french they are very important and if you saw the scrap of paper a 'birth certificate' is put on, you'd understand why they need something else. French birth certifcates are only valid for a few months anyway and can have alterations made to them. As we don't have a livret de famille and our children were born in France, we have had to get 'new' copies of these scrappy birth certificates on several occassions.

The children also have a Carnet de Sante, where all their medical records are kept, including an offical record of their jabs, I 'm sure that a foreigner could request one, they are important. Maybe a GP could issue one. Ours were given to us when our sons were born.

 

DD, if you didn't know, and as you said that you were divorced, if you have any children from a previous marriage or relationship, then they are still your heritiers under french law.

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I had to produce my cobbled up version to get my 'Carte de Séjour' initially. Now that is no longer needed fewer people have to get this sort of thing together, especially if they stay on the fringes of French society.

I had to produce it 3 times for my different French pensions, and it was a useful source of the various documents required on numerous occasions..

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