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Going back to the UK - with your car


ChezShells
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For the benefit of anyone wishing to take their UK reg'd car back to the UK without MOT or road tax, I have just had an email replied from DVLA.

Apart from the usual 'if the car has been out of the UK more than 12 months you should have applied for an export cert' et etc

It would be possible for you to drive your vehicle on the public highway while it is not displaying a valid tax disc so long as you are going to a prearranged MOT test. So it would be possible to drive from the port of entry to the testing garage and from thence home and no offence would have been committed. You would be expected however to tax your vehicle for further road use that.

So if you are taking your uk car back then you know what to do.

Regards

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Hope I have missunderstood your post, you have been in france with your Brit reg car for over a year without Tax and MOT?

So suposedly you declared sorn and locked this car in your garage/barn and it has not been driven on French roads all the while you have lived here?  Hope it is roadworthy for the drive back.

Mrs O

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Oh sorry, Mrs do-good

I have French insurance and CT, my insurance told me there was no rush so until someone tells me otherwise (tho not on here) I will continue to use it, but think about it, lets say I have been here 12 months, I came here with UK road tax and insurance

Thought it may be of some use

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There is a huge debate on here at the moment on Unpaid road tax.

If you read through them all the answers you need are there...whether you like them or not, If your broker has taken your ins money and not told you the law , then you may have thrown your money down the drain ,if you have cause for a claim.

If you do not wish to take advise off forum members then so be it!

Mrs O 

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Two or three years ago we took a British-registered car back to England from France. While we were there, a policeman did a routine check on the police computer, found no record of the registration number so naturally enough wanted a word. We explained that the vehicle had been exported to France and was going through the re-registration process (under a DVLA export certificate, as was the correct procedure then, and which was why the index number did not come up as valid). It also explained why the car had no UK tax disc, as you cannot, of course, tax an exported vehicle in Britain. The PC was perfectly happy with all that, particularly as we had the French insurance and CT documents.

However, I mentioned this at the time on the forum and I recall that somebody who said he was an ex traffic policeman got extremely agitated about this, saying that what we had done was totally illegal and our friendly local cop was wrong.

So once again it all comes down to whose interpretation you believe. I still think any reasonable policeman would accept the fact that under those circumstances you were acting as legally as you could, and not trying to evade paying road tax, neither were you driving an unsafe or uninsured vehicle. But not all are so reasonable of course.

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Will

Probably 3 years ago that would have been the case, but I think you were very lucky with your PC.  Times have changed, I don't know when SORN came in probably about the same time, but now, if your car is on the DVLA data base in the UK  it is either taxed or SORN'd ( or officially exported).  If it is neither then you face a very heavy fine and back payment of road tax to when it was last taxed.  All vehicle registration documents have also been recently revised and re-issued.

If you have been watching Traffic Cops on the BBC you would also know that for security purposes many UK Police cars are now equipped with access to check the registered owner from the DVLA data base and if the car is taxed and insured. If it is not insured the car is impounded.  If your car is not on the DVLA data base and you are in the City of London at the moment expect to be on the ground with an armed officer standing over you  By the way, did you know that all French CT's are also logged and can be checked?

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Will, we have always been told that if we are in the process of reregistering that we should not venture out of France whilst this was going on. We have had the odd car that has been imported into France and inconsequence have never even considered travelling with it until it was fully 'frenched'.

I never questioned this as if anything ever went wrong, I could see it getting complicated as a vehicule fell between two systems.

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I would STRONGLY recommend that before you act on the original posters information you check with the DVLC your self and likewise you should check with your French insurance company and not your broker about the period allowed for registration.

With reference to a SORN. A SORN is only valid in any country in which the DVLC has jurisdiction and the DVLC and/or its representatives do check, OK only a small number of them, that the vehicle is at the address stated on the SORN. As the DVLC has no jurisdiction in France you can't legally use a SORN in France. The DVLC CLEARLY state that any car carrying UK number plates and registered with them must abide by UK law where ever they are in the world. By this they mean it must be taxed and MOTed (where applicable). To get your tax disk you will of course have to provide valid UK insurance.

Also as a spin off of current security procedures invoked at ferry (and Euro tunnel) customs posts all number plates are photographed and electronically checked on the DVLC computer mainly to see if it's real and valid. You could get a 'tug' when you get back to the UK. Customs do have the legal right to impound cars at port of entry (or exit) for any back tax or parking tickets outstanding (foreign registered cars can also be impounded for outstanding motoring offence fines). Hence the low and high level cameras at the customs check kiosks.

I would be very interested to hear from anybody who uses the original posters suggestion as to how they got on. It might be very helpful to anyone who finds themselves in such a situation if it works.

 

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A slight aside but..

I imported my Uk car into France.  I took out a 90 day green card with my UK insurer and within 90 days got my car reregisterd as French. The tax disk expired within about 2 weeks of the end of the 90 day period so I did a SORN which was fine.  Two weeks later the car was insured, reregistered and legal in France but the Prefecture kept my V5 and said they would send it back to the DVLA.

12 months later I got a letter saying I had not renewed my SORN so would face a fine (I'd even contacted them prior to this and told them what had happened).

I was told, by the DVLA, that as I was in France they would not bother to persue any fines anyway so not to worry.  So I just faxed all my previous correspondence and carte grise and received a reply that their records were updated.  We'll see what happens next year!

It never ceases to amaze me.  Why do people not just get their car reregistered and comply with the law rather than faff around driving a car possibly not legal and not isured (if it came to the crunch)?  It's not exactly rocket science and there's plenty of info around to help people. If I can do it anyone can!

 

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Just to add that the text in my post was exactly what I got in my email from DVLA, but I will phone before I drive over to confirm, should I get in any trouble for it Im prepared to go to court but I don't see any problem.

Why don't people just register them?, I totally agree, maybe there is something in the back of their minds saying they are returning to the UK, in my case its because I probably did have that in my mind but also because of my private number plate, its not worth anything but it looks good (to me anyway) but if I wasn't going back I would change over to french plates and put my plate on retention.

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After we arrived we visited our local well known insurance office to get our car insured and rematriculated. The insurance guy stressed we had 90 days to get the carte gris etc.... After that the insurance would be null and void if not undretaken. We also recieved 3 reminder letters from this company as the 90 day limit approached.

All fine and well for us, however several friends of ours have gone into the other office of the same company in the same town (English speaking) and been told there is no need for a carte gris and can drive around indefinately on UK plates as long as they have a CT and french insurance.

The same company in a nearby town is telling folk as long as they get there house insurance at he same time they can keep thier UK plates forever! This has caused some friendly arguments between us as they can't understand why we've gone to the expense of new lights, carte gris etc.. when it supposedly it can be done another cheaper and apparently legal way.

A rival insurance company in my town told a good friend of mine (french car) the 2 month cancalation rule has been dropped from June this year. My mate asked the guy in the office to cancell his insurance by phone, which he did there  and then and within 2 months of the cancalation period(my mate has no French by the way) and signed up to this signicantly cheaper contract. I went myself whilst I've still got over 2 months to go and got the same story but also they would require my house insurance aswell. He suggested in was obligetoire. Of course it was! I can't help thinking my bud's been stitched up and will get a renewal notice from the original insurance company.

I know what is the correct way, but it could be that some respected insurance companys are being a bit fly towards unsuspecting brits hence the disparity and confusion.

 

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It never ceases to amaze me.  Why do people not just get their car reregistered and comply with the law rather than faff around driving a car possibly not legal and not isured (if it came to the crunch)?  It's not exactly rocket science and there's plenty of info around to help people. If I can do it anyone can!

Because not all of us drive French or English-made tin cages, plus the French's restrictive practices where it comes to car importation. Remember that the EU has taken France, Austria & Poland to task about (eg.) C-of-C's.

Believe me, I have tried to register a car here &, despite the fact that it had UK registration and was without fault, I gave up after 18 months & sold it in the UK. My insurance company imposed no time limits for registration.

Of course there are lazy sods who can't/won't get their cars registered for whatever reason, but you can spot them (around here at least) - no UK tax, no Fr insurance cert, no CT (usually a Rover, aged Merc or Vauxhall). You can also spot them in Mr Bricolage - although they usually frequent AI...

 

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[quote]But knowing how hard it is to get a UK Post Code into a French computer system, surely the Informatique would blow a fuse at a UK Reg Plate[/quote]

Why would you want to? If you don't have a French post code, what's the point of a CT? You'll need a French address to insure and re-register the thing anyway.

Our experience is the same as Miki's - a CT on a British registered vehicle is no problem. In fact I understand that it's essential, because before you can register anything (British or French) over four years old you must have a CT done within the previous 6 months.

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[quote]Why would you want to? If you don't have a French post code, what's the point of a CT? You'll need a French address to insure and re-register the thing anyway. Our experience is the same as Miki's - ...[/quote]

Quite right.

I didn't see anothe angle you might have been coming from. If the car is required to pass a CT for its reimmatriculation, then it must surely be because you have a French address, if you do not have one, then as Bill says, why would one want a CT ?

If it was to try and fiddle the UK, then where has one been living during the time in France and then of course it points to one having an address here and wanting a CT to do as previously mentioned.

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just had to peruse the DVLA site...to see if I could find anything acceptable that makes me think that I could have kept my Brit reg car in france without road tax .....looked down the section headed something like; drivers information  (first I clicked on the english speaking section!)

                        then: your legal obligations as a driver etc

Read through the rules and regs, then I got to the bit about, you must notify us if you change address.

So how many of the brit plated cars driving around France without TAX disc have notified DVLA of their change of address? 

Mrs O

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Well, I'm going back to the UK with my van to sell it. It still has UK plates and I told the DVLA that I was going to register the van in France and I have an export certificate for it. I changed my mind on the registering here and now want to sell it in the UK. I will be getting a CT before I go (hopefully!).

What happens when I arrive at Dover or wherever on my UK plates? Will it sort of 'not exist' on the DVLA's records?
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Hi - this is a very confusing thread.  I do not understand why Mrs MDW got a SORN for her car in France - she was not 'off road' she was driving around in France!  Surely she should have informed the DVLA that she was living in France and had exported the car.  That's what I did - totally straightforward.  And that answers Mrs O above  - as long as people have exported the car then they have given DVLA their French address for the car.  I've done everything I can to progress towards getting my car re-registered in France (new headlights, CT and French insurance, VAT cert) but am still awaiting my Cert of European conformity from Toyota.  However, I would never take the risk of going to UK in the car now before it's re-registered in France.
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[quote]Well, I'm going back to the UK with my van to sell it. It still has UK plates and I told the DVLA that I was going to register the van in France and I have an export certificate for it. I changed my m...[/quote]

The CT is worthless as far as the UK is concerned if the car is on UK plates. It is highly likely you will have to pay and road tax outstanding and you will be driving illegally without it in the UK. If you don't have a valid MOT you will also be illegal, if you don't have valid UK insurance then it's a criminal offence as opposed to a driving offence I believe. Totals up to around 6 point on your UK licence.
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nothing confusing here, if you move to another country then you follow the rules and law of that country. If you wish to keep your UK car then there's plenty of info available about re-registering, so what if it's a bit difficult, moving aboard is always going to throw up challenges. Ignorance or laziness or trying to save a few bucks is no excuse in law! On a recent trip back to the UK I noticed a number of UK plated cars parked up in customs, when I asked the customs guy why, he told me they were all cars that have been impounded as they had no road tax or MOT, not the best way to start your holiday or visit back home, is it?
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