Buying privately

[RetiretoFrance]

There are lots and lots of ads (e.g. Le Bon Coin) placed by private sellers, as well as signs on buildings and so on. Has anyone bought this way? If so, we would like to hear your story. Is there anyone who has done this with basic language skills?

[Pommier]

We've sold a few houses privately and bought a building plot - all through Leboncoin. As a buyer, it's worth looking on line to see if the house is also with agents and at what price (you can then negotiate from a stronger position). Don't be tempted to view via agents and then buy privately; they WILL sue you for their commission! There's no danger in buying privately as the notaire will do all that's legally necessary (you can have your own notaire if you want, for no extra cost), but you must be confident that you're paying the correct price.

[Sprogster]

It is very much a buyers market in France, with older rural residential properties especially difficult to sell, but many sellers have yet to adjust to the new reality that the French property market is likely to be very soft for the forseeable future, as the current French government have undermined buyer confidence with all the continuous changes to tax regimes.

As a result you need to be more careful than ever that you research the area you plan to buy in to ensure that you do not overpay, and that if you decided you wanted to move after a few years, you are not stuck with a property that will not sell. 

Better still as many other posters recommend rent before you buy to get a better feel for the area you think you like, as I get the impression from quite a few posters on this forum that where they first buy is often not where they end up settling and the costs of selling and buying in France are much higher than the Uk, so even if you end up selling a house for what you paid for it, the notaires and other selling costs will leave you thousands out of pocket.

[Quillan]

But those that bought 10 or 12 years ago even if they sell for the same as what they paid then moved back to the UK they would have around 35% more sterling after fees to take back. That said at the end of the day it's all relative really.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]But those that bought 10 or 12 years ago even if they sell for the same as what they paid then moved back to the UK they would have around 35% more sterling after fees to take back. That said at the end of the day it's all relative really.
[/quote]

Could you explain that to me in English please; but slowly as maths was never my best subject. [8-)]

[NormanH]

If you had  £100,000 you probably got  a 150,000€ house, as the pound was around 1.5

If you sell that now for 150,000€ you would get back about £135,000 as exchange rates have moved.

[RetiretoFrance]

We have visited the area in which we want to buy a number of times. Admittedly, this has always been in the warmer months, although we have carefully researched the climate all year round - especially in relation to where we live now in the UK and to other areas we might want to consider. We are planning to do a longer trip next spring and to incorporate some other areas which could be possibilities. In the past 20 years we have toured much of France and can eliminate some parts before we start. I take the point about a buyers' market and I do feel that there are some agents - principally selling for Brits to Brits, whose prices are over the top. Many properties have been around for a long time (this is also true of private sales) and seem to be maintaining their asking prices.

[NormanH]

We are planning to do a longer trip next spring

I would try and make it late January/early February to see how things really are in the colder months, partly for the climate but also because many places become shuttered ghost towns at this period of the year.

[NickP]

[quote user="NormanH"]If you had  £100,000 you probably got  a 150,000€ house, as the pound was around 1.5
If you sell that now for 150,000€ you would get back about £135,000 as exchange rates have moved.
[/quote]

Oh yes I see, but what about the 14% agents and notaires fees, and the money spent getting a French hovel back to living standards or don't you count that?

[Pommier]

Not everyone buys/lives in a hovel! There are some very nice houses in France.

[suein56]

[quote user="NormanH"]We are planning to do a longer trip next spring

I would try and make it late January/early February to see how things really are in the colder months, partly for the climate but also because many places become shuttered ghost towns at this period of the year.

[/quote]

That is really sound advice as a lot of France closes down over the winter. And you have to see it to believe how dispiriting it can feel to be in a French town in winter when the shutters are closed at 17h00 and nothing stirs until the following morning. It is as unlike the UK as you can possibly imagine. It is glorious in its own way but then I am a romantic at heart and a dyed-in-the-wool francophile.

Sue

[Gardengirl]

[quote user="suein56"][quote user="NormanH"]We are planning to do a longer trip next spring

I would try and make it late January/early February to see how things really are in the colder months, partly for the climate but also because many places become shuttered ghost towns at this period of the year.

[/quote]

That is really sound advice as a lot of France closes down over the winter. And you have to see it to believe how dispiriting it can feel to be in a French town in winter when the shutters are closed at 17h00 and nothing stirs until the following morning. It is as unlike the UK as you can possibly imagine. It is glorious in its own way but then I am a romantic at heart and a dyed-in-the-wool francophile.

Sue

[/quote]

I agree with those comments; do get to know somewhere you're thinking of moving to in the dead of winter. We only bought where we did because we had visited at all times of the year and knew it stays open all year. Although February is a bit quiet, as many owners of businesses go off skiing, and Mondays in winter are quiet, a bit like Wednesday afternoons (half day closing day) used to be in UK. We have lots of bakers, so if a couple of them are on holiday, there are several more good ones to choose from.

[Sprogster]

Don't rely on historical weather statistics, as like the UK, France has in recent years being going through a period of wetter and colder winters, that experts are predicting could last another 15 years!

I have a house in an area that historicaly has one of the highest sunshine records in France, but the last few winters have been anything but sunny, with record rainfall and low temperatures lasting well into the Spring.

[NickP]

[quote user="Pommier"]Not everyone buys/lives in a hovel! There are some very nice houses in France.[/quote]

Absolutely true, but for £150.000 there was nearly always a lot to do or have done, especially ten years ago when French house prices apart from the big cities was probably at it's highest,  also my learned friend forgets to include inflation which would also erode the "35% profit".

[YCCMB]

I dunno...I think that is a bit of a sweeping generalisation. Certainly we didn't spend that much for a house that needed no work.

That's one of the abiding problems, isn't it? Many people bought high, spent more than they had ever imagined on renovations and improvements, and expect to recoup that plus interest, inflation, profit...all in a depressed market. It's that old adage, even where property is concerned: the value of your investment can go down as well as up.

[Quillan]

The percentage I gave was supposed to take in to account some of the costs as it is, if you bought around 10 to 11 years ago higher. The 100k was also just an general figure so it could be easy to see how it worked out. Change the figure and the amount, money wise, is bigger.

Take a house bought in 2001 that cost 200,000, the average for the Euro was 1.63, so you paid in sterling 122,700.

Is you sold it at the same price today (takes in to account house price drop and work carried out) you would get a rate of around 1.11 giving you a price in sterling of around 180,200. If you work the difference out as a percentage then it is much higher than 35% that I gave.

As said not everyone bought a wreck to renovate. I though the seller paid one fee and the buyer the other theses days. Round here the selling percentage has dropped a lot and if you have a house that could be easily sold you can do a deal because they are desperate to sell houses at the moment.

[RetiretoFrance]

I'm always open to advice. We are planning to move to inland Aude - not too far south (say no further South than Limoux) and would consider southern Tarn (e.g. north to Castres) and the tips of Haute Garonne and Ariege. (That could all change, of course, now that we are retired and will have more time to wander). My impression is that winters, although perhaps colder than we have here at times are going to be shorter and brighter - usually, anyway. There are always exceptions. Am I more or less right?

Incidentally, as to being quiet in February, we live in rural Herefordshire and it's pretty quiet and dead for most of the year!

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I though the seller paid one fee and the buyer the other theses days. [/quote]Effectively the buyer pays both fees. It's just that the seller receives less than the buyer pays when the Estate Agents fee is included in the price. For example one property we looked at  the seller wanted €320,000 but we would have had to pay €340,000 to get it. Then we would have had to pay 6-7% in Notaire fees. So at the end of the day all the money comes from the buyer.

[Judith]

[quote user="RetiretoFrance"]I'm always open to advice. We are planning to move to inland Aude - not too far south (say no further South than Limoux) and would consider southern Tarn (e.g. north to Castres) and the tips of Haute Garonne and Ariege. (That could all change, of course, now that we are retired and will have more time to wander). My impression is that winters, although perhaps colder than we have here at times are going to be shorter and brighter - usually, anyway. There are always exceptions. Am I more or less right?

Incidentally, as to being quiet in February, we live in rural Herefordshire and it's pretty quiet and dead for most of the year![/quote]

As Sprogster said, the winters (and summers) are changing around here (on Aude/ Herault border, and nearer the coast than you are describing).  This year, when we had no snow, friends were marooned in the Mirepoix area by snow which did not clear for a week.  Itmight well have been worse towards Limoux and south towards the hills.  Then further away from the coast you go down here, the more extreme the temperatures, and it can be very cold in winter (hopefully shorter than the UK, but not always!) And the wind, certainly in our area, has to be taken into account, and that makes it much, much colder than almost anywhere in the UK, even the north of England where I grew up.

Coming here in winter has to be highly recommended to fact find.

[NickP]

[quote user="Quillan"]

The percentage I gave was supposed to take in to account some of the costs as it is, if you bought around 10 to 11 years ago higher. The 100k was also just an general figure so it could be easy to see how it worked out. Change the figure and the amount, money wise, is bigger.

Take a house bought in 2001 that cost 200,000, the average for the Euro was 1.63, so you paid in sterling 122,700.

Is you sold it at the same price today (takes in to account house price drop and work carried out) you would get a rate of around 1.11 giving you a price in sterling of around 180,200. If you work the difference out as a percentage then it is much higher than 35% that I gave.

As said not everyone bought a wreck to renovate. I though the seller paid one fee and the buyer the other theses days. Round here the selling percentage has dropped a lot and if you have a house that could be easily sold you can do a deal because they are desperate to sell houses at the moment.

[/quote] Ten years ago the rate was 1.50, now the rate we are getting today is 1.18. I'm just glad you're not my accountant., never mind Q keep going and you might even convince yourself  your right eventually. By the way you forgot inflation or doesn't that matter in your world.

[NormanH]

[quote user="RetiretoFrance"]I'm always open to advice. We are planning to move to inland Aude - not too far south (say no further South than Limoux) and would consider southern Tarn (e.g. north to Castres) and the tips of Haute Garonne and Ariege. (That could all change, of course, now that we are retired and will have more time to wander). My impression is that winters, although perhaps colder than we have here at times are going to be shorter and brighter - usually, anyway. There are always exceptions. Am I more or less right?

Incidentally, as to being quiet in February, we live in rural Herefordshire and it's pretty quiet and dead for most of the year![/quote]

I know that area well as does Judith who has just posted.

I have a foot in two of the areas, one In the Orb Valley (Béziers and north east up the river) where the climate is markedly more mild than in the other area near Limoux and the tip of the Ariège.

In the first I had orange trees and Mimosa flowering in February.

As Judith says the second can have heavy snow at the same time, although apparently very close on the map.

Down here East/West is important (the Mediterranean climate gets lost around the meridienne verte near Carcassonne), an so is altitude.

Castres and the southern Tarn are also much  chillier...

On the other hand the population of the cooler areas is less socially challenged than close to the Mediterranean coast where there is a fair share of crime and other problems I often post about..

[Quillan]

[quote user="NickP"][quote user="Quillan"]

The percentage I gave was supposed to take in to account some of the costs as it is, if you bought around 10 to 11 years ago higher. The 100k was also just an general figure so it could be easy to see how it worked out. Change the figure and the amount, money wise, is bigger.

Take a house bought in 2001 that cost 200,000, the average for the Euro was 1.63, so you paid in sterling 122,700.

Is you sold it at the same price today (takes in to account house price drop and work carried out) you would get a rate of around 1.11 giving you a price in sterling of around 180,200. If you work the difference out as a percentage then it is much higher than 35% that I gave.

As said not everyone bought a wreck to renovate. I though the seller paid one fee and the buyer the other theses days. Round here the selling percentage has dropped a lot and if you have a house that could be easily sold you can do a deal because they are desperate to sell houses at the moment.

[/quote] Ten years ago the rate was 1.50, now the rate we are getting today is 1.18. I'm just glad you're not my accountant., never mind Q keep going and you might even convince yourself  your right eventually. By the way you forgot inflation or doesn't that matter in your world.

[/quote]

Oh dear here we go yet again a touch of the old pedantics. 2013 - 2001 = 12 not 10.

Euro rates in 2001 started at 1.58 ended at 1.64 (source http://www.freecurrencyrates.com/exchange-rate-history/GBP-EUR/2001 )

At this very second the exchange rate is 1.184 started (the year) at 1.16 but then the rate quoted is not always what you get. A quick look around and it seems 1.15 to 1.16 for moving money at the time I type this. So yes that is higher than I said but at the end of the day I was only giving a rough example.

Yes there is inflation but even after all that and as it is the buyer (as Rabbie says) pays the fees you would have found it hard to put your money anywhere and get such excellent interest on your money. I also wouldn't take my advice serously as it was only trying to explain a point in general, I would seek out a professional the same as I would recommend others to do.

[Sprogster]

Quillan is correct, but of course the exchange rate could in future equally go in the other direction, causing a loss when transferring euros back to £'s. Most currency analysts see the £ as under valued in the longer term against the Euro at the current rate, so the risk goes both ways.

[Quillan]

Exactly Sprogster as many of those Brits that went to Spain way back when thinking they could afford to live a good life there can tell you. Now, through the low exchange rates, they have seen a massive reduction in their pensions after convertion. That coupled with rising food prices and colapsed house prices have left many, even with the rate working to their advantage, moving back to the UK and in many cases all they can afford is a park home. Sad really but then it proves the point that exchange rates are a gamble that cuts both ways.

[NickP]

Well well, the goal post mover accuses me of being pedantic, as for not taking your advice seriously that is probably the most honest thing you've ever said. At the moment we are changing money at the rate of 1.18. [:P] [:P]