Dangerous

[Bugsy]

As I understand it a sign showing a '+' indicates a crossroads where you either have right of way or have to stop (or give way). The thickness of the line giving an indication. A sign showing a 'X' indicates a priority from the right. The latter are about in our area, but not common. The yellow squares are used on the main roads. There is a classic example right in the city centre of Poitiers with a PaD but absolutely no signage (apart from skidmarks on the road)

[Teamedup]

[quote user="Bugbear"]As I understand it a sign showing a '+' indicates a crossroads where you either have right of way or have to stop (or give way). A sign showing a 'X' indicates a priority from the right. The latter are about in our area, but not common. The yellow squares are used on the main roads. There is a classic example right in the city centre of Poitiers with a PaD but absolutely no signage (apart from skidmarks on the road)[/quote]

 

I bet that the road is not the only place with skid marks when there is a near accident [:D][:D][:D].

[Sunday Driver]

The only French road sign websites that matter are the official French ones.  Everything else should be regarded as unreliable (especially the BBC!!!).

The standard rule in continental Europe has always been priorite a droite - unless cancelled by a road sign or mark on the carriageway.  So, to answer Ron's query about roundabouts, they are PaD unless they are signed "vous n'avez pas la priorite" and "ceder le passage".  Many large city centre roundabouts such as Place Charles de Gaulle (Arc de Triomphe) work better in terms of traffic flow by allowing priority to entering traffic, so they haven't been modified by signage.

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Cat"]

Read all about it here, from the French Government website, the leaflet showing the meaning of French road signs...

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant-signalisation.pdf

[/quote]

 

Thanks Cat, that's the one I was looking for yesterday........................[:)]

[TarnGranny]

The biggest problem in our area is the lack of signs, especially in and around Castres.

We are now in the habit of looking to see if there are any lines across the road ahead joining ours from the right, and slown down and approach with extreme caution if there aren't any!

[Monika]

This thread might just have saved our lives! I will be looking out for the x signs from now on! I bet we have been guilty of not giving way!

[allanb]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]What X signs?  Unless the signs in the SW are different to the rest of France, these Xs just indicate there is a junction ahead and not that it has the priority from the right.  [/quote]Sorry, but this is totally wrong.  The diagonal X means that priorité à droite applies to all roads at the junction ahead - in the SW and everywhere else in France (and in many other countries: Britain is the exception rather than the rule).

I agree with Sunday Driver: it's scary.

[TarnGranny]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="Ron Avery"]What X signs?  Unless the signs in the SW are different to the rest of France, these Xs just indicate there is a junction ahead and not that it has the priority from the right.  [/quote]Sorry, but this is totally wrong.  The diagonal X means that priorité à droite applies to all roads at the junction ahead - in the SW and everywhere else in France (and in many other countries: Britain is the exception rather than the rule).

I agree with Sunday Driver: it's scary.
[/quote]

Sorry, but it is not totally wrong. Diagonal X's in our area indicate just that there is a junction ahead, often with lines. I would be very interested in finding out why this seems to be different in other areas.

I am in the SW the same as Ron Avery.

[Teamedup]

We don't always have road signs to indicate prioriy from the right around here. I drive with the idea 'driver beware'.

 

As has been mentioned this rule does exist in other countries. However, in those countries can one be on a fast main road, and a tiny country lane has priority over you, often hidden by a hedge too? Because that is exactly what happens around here and as I said, there are not always warning signs to indicate they are there.

[Chancer]

There are many priority a droites around me, not all are signalled, but those that are have the diagonal cross, the vertical cross sign with the thicker vertical line indicates that you have priority over the side road. for a long time I thought that it indicated the approach to a cross road, not the approach to a right turn.

I slow down for all right turns unless I have already seen the vertical cross sign, it is very difficult to look for a solid white line on the side road as often these have been worn down.

The only safe way (around here) is to treat everything as priority a droite unless you know the road or have seen the sign.

[Rjpfrancais]

[quote user="Monika"]This thread might just have saved our lives! I will be looking out for the x signs from now on! I bet we have been guilty of not giving way![/quote]

Monika, how refreshing to hear from a driver in this forum who admits they might have been less than perfect. Me too, I missed the PaD in the middle of Dunkerque recently, it was no big deal but it was a bit of a wake up call.

This is a useful thread, but Teamedup, don't you think you're being a bit hard on the driver of the people carrier, he might have driven 1000's of miles perfectly safely and he makes one mistake, possibly because he/she is in an unfamilar town and you brand him/her as a dangerous driver. We're all human, therefore mistakes will happen. He/she may have known the rule but  just  missed seeing the sign. Come on, have you never slipped up on the road or are you one of the 'perfect few' that seem to be overly represented in this forum?!!!

 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="TarnGranny"]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="Ron Avery"]What X signs?  Unless the signs in the SW are different to the rest of France, these Xs just indicate there is a junction ahead and not that it has the priority from the right.  [/quote]Sorry, but this is totally wrong.  The diagonal X means that priorité à droite applies to all roads at the junction ahead - in the SW and everywhere else in France (and in many other countries: Britain is the exception rather than the rule).

I agree with Sunday Driver: it's scary.
[/quote]

Sorry, but it is not totally wrong. Diagonal X's in our area indicate just that there is a junction ahead, often with lines. I would be very interested in finding out why this seems to be different in other areas.

I am in the SW the same as Ron Avery.

[/quote]

Are you talking about a plain white trangle with a diagonal black cross?  If so, these are older signs which signified any type of crossroads and merely demanded "prudence" because priorite a droite always applied.  Later on, when the general priorite a droite rule started to be overruled, the white triangle was given a red border to signify priorite a droit still existed, and the additional sign with the + was introduced to differentate the new priority straight ahead. 

So if the X sign has a red border, then priorite a droite applies - everywhere in France, including the SW.

If a crossroads has an old white X sign and the priority has changed through the addition of road markings, then the sign would still only signal a crossroads.  That's it's only purpose.

 

 

 

[Loiseau]

I got caught by the PaD, despite my best endeavours not to...

In the Vendee, where I drive most of my French kms, there is hardly any PaD.  I can think of perhaps three junctions in the whole county.  I have had one or two "moments" when visiting St-Nazaire though (in 44).

Recently, I have spent a lot of time in the Nord/Pas de Calais/Somme, and this rule is *everywhere*!  I have been exercising extreme caution, looking at the white lines for the roads on the right etc, but it is hard to see those in towns, and I have had the odd near squeak.  And had one prang in a suburb of Boulogne in the dark (5pm, Dec), when concentrating on road signs to find the route to my B&B and had not noticed the X sign. A chap hit me from the right.  Not too much damage, mercifully, as his road was on a bit of a diagonal, and we were both going about 30mph.  We went to his son's house to complete our "constats".

What amused me is that the son gave his dad a HUGE whisky before he set off home.  (I refused one, you will be pleased to hear!)

When I have expressed amazement to French people that they should still have this rule (which was probably perfectly OK in the times of the horse and cart), they in turn express amazement that there could be any other way.  "How do you manage?" they ask.  "Is there really a Stop sign on every crossroads?"  Well I think there must be in the UK, since priority never seems to be an issue.

Angela

[allanb]

[quote user="TarnGranny"]Sorry, but it is not totally wrong. Diagonal X's in our area indicate just that there is a junction ahead, often with lines. I would be very interested in finding out why this seems to be different in other areas.[/quote]

It is indeed totally wrong.  My source is the Code de la Route, which is valid throughout France.  I have an illustrated summary showing a photograph of this sign, with the caption:

Ce panneau signifie:

céder le passage à droite

c'est-à-dire aux véhicules débouchant de la route située sur la droite.

Where on earth do you get your information?  I'm not trying to be offensive, but I also live in the SW, and I'm not keen on sharing the roads with people who don't know what the signs mean.

[allanb]

I've just seen Sunday Driver's post.  I didn't know about the old signs without the red border (I don't think I've ever seen one) and if that's the kind we were talking about, then I apologize.

But if it's true that there are intersections where they've put lines on the road to change the priority, but left the old p.à.d. signs in place, then they're creating a major danger - because the sign alone would tell you that you have priority over anyone coming from your left.

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Cat"]

Read all about it here, from the French Government website, the leaflet showing the meaning of French road signs...

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant-signalisation.pdf

[/quote]

Cat

On the link you provided to the depliant. Under the Yellow diamond it has the text "Indication du caractère

prioritaire d’une route". Does that actually mean give way to the right or does it mean that the route(road) you are on has priority.

[Teamedup]

[quote user="Rjpfrancais"]

[quote user="Monika"]This thread might just have saved our lives! I will be looking out for the x signs from now on! I bet we have been guilty of not giving way![/quote]

Monika, how refreshing to hear from a driver in this forum who admits they might have been less than perfect. Me too, I missed the PaD in the middle of Dunkerque recently, it was no big deal but it was a bit of a wake up call.

This is a useful thread, but Teamedup, don't you think you're being a bit hard on the driver of the people carrier, he might have driven 1000's of miles perfectly safely and he makes one mistake, possibly because he/she is in an unfamilar town and you brand him/her as a dangerous driver. We're all human, therefore mistakes will happen. He/she may have known the rule but  just  missed seeing the sign. Come on, have you never slipped up on the road or are you one of the 'perfect few' that seem to be overly represented in this forum?!!!

 

[/quote]

 

As I said, around here not all these junctions are indicated, that is by the by, we went past several later still following this car and they ignored them, so I doubt that they knew about them. We are almost a thousand kms from Calais, that is a long way to travel and not know something like this. If it had been a car that was trying to pull out I think it wouldn't have shocked me so much. But it was a lad on a scooter and I cried out when I saw the car in front and the scooter were both moving. It was dangerous and the number of kids killed or badly hurt on their scoots in France is high. So yes, dangerous driving.

Yes we all make mistakes driving and that is why we need insurance. But some mistakes are far more negligent and serious than others.

[Mikew]

Don't forget one of the biggest P a D around, traffic coming onto the Boulevard Peripherique around Paris has priority over those already circumnavigating the crowded BP. Always move onto lane 2 or more to avoid incomers.

[Ron Avery]

Thanks TarnGranny and  like TU also says, not all the roads that have priority to the right are marked by any sort of sign, and in many towns you do have to do as TG says, look at the side roads for white lines and stop signs.

Allan, as I  said before we don't have the X with the red background round here and the  X signs in France without a red border do not have priority to the right if yoiu believe that then you will drive at 15kph along most country roads!!.  Round here, the one to watch for is the yellow diamond with a black diagonal bar, that tells you that roads ahead may have priority from the right , these are not marked individually in towns and villages around here.

Edit: Very rapid posts on this so missed some whilst typing. so amended previous posts!

SD you live in the(Edit as I don't know my east from west let alone road signs[:P]  N WEST of FRance don't you?  So you may have different signs to us in the SW, if we don't have the red bordered triangles why would we be aware of them?  However, your last comment makes some sense of this, the white signs with a black cross without any red background do indicate a junction and are there only for information and prudence.  They do not and I doubt ever have indicated priority for these often farm tracks coming onto major routes, if they did, it explains why all the old boys round here drive in the midddle of the road.

Just another point, on a Pa D junction, can a car just drive out of a blind street without having any regard to the proximity of approaching cars?  Also,  if turning left, they appear not to have the priority if their access to the left is not possible due to traffic coming in that direction.

[Sunday Driver]

Ron

I was born in the NE (of England, that is) but I live in Grand Ouest, between Nantes and Poitiers and our signs are the same as in the rest of France. 

You will, of course, be aware of the existence of red bordered X triangles because you'll be familiar with the signs in the code de la route .....[;-)]

I'm sure you have these all over the SW of France - but if most of your travelling has been on priority roads, then you've probably not come across them.  These days, they're mostly found on small C roads out in the sticks as well as in some older towns. 

Mind you, not all unmarked side roads have priority - for example, chemins de terre don't.

 

 

[Loiseau]

[quote user="fulcrum"]
... Under the Yellow diamond it has the text "Indication du caractère prioritaire d’une route". Does that actually mean give way to the right or does it mean that the route(road) you are on has priority.
[/quote]

 

The yellow diamond means that the road you are on has priority over the ones coming up (usually you are on a major road when you see this).

Yellow diamond crossed through with a single line means from now on you no longer have priority at junctions.

Angela

[Pads]

[quote user="cooperlola"]We have a particularly nasty PaD near our home.  [:)][/quote]

 

[:-))] Do you live near my M in L ?

[Bugsy]

Pads with a nasty PaD nearby................................................................[:D][:D]

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Loiseau"]

[quote user="fulcrum"]

... Under the Yellow diamond it has the text "Indication du caractère prioritaire d’une route". Does that actually mean give way to the right or does it mean that the route(road) you are on has priority.

[/quote]

 

The yellow diamond means that the road you are on has priority over the ones coming up (usually you are on a major road when you see this).

Yellow diamond crossed through with a single line means from now on you no longer have priority at junctions.

Angela

[/quote]

I've seen this on traffic light junctions and thought at first it was a box junction symbol. Is the yellow diamond for when the lights aren't working? Surely it can't overide the lights. Can it?

I personally think that the traffic signing in France is sometimes too complicated and/or inconsistent. I sometimes think that whoever put up the signs was given a pile of different signs and told to put them up wherever they think best.

[Loiseau]

Well, I do think they should be more consistent with this rule throughout the country - or better still, junk it and invest in some pots of white paint!  Does it apply in any other European country?

That sounds bizarre, your seeing the yellow diamond on a traffic light, though, Fulcrum.

Angela