Have they not heard of Cats Eyes?

[JJ]

Having lived here for over four years, and visited for more than twenty, I have noticed that French roads do not seem to have much time cats eyes.

I live in the Charente Maritime 17, and I can only recall one road with the said items.

If the French goverment are so keen to reduce their awful road safety record, then surely a simple road engineering project like installing cats eyes would go a long way.

The UK has a lot of them, and I think they are a good idea.

 

[Suze01]

I quite agree.  There are many fast main roads that are absolutely pitch black and are a nightmare todrive on in the dark especially in poor weather conditions.  AFAIK France don't do cats eyes.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="JJ"]

If the French goverment are so keen to reduce their awful road safety record, ..............

[/quote]

Bit out of date there JJ

"Jacques Chircac announced Wednesday that he has decided against an amnesty for driving offences, except for non-dangerous parking offences, as the number of road death victims in France has dropped below 5000 for the first time during 2006.

"10,000 lives saved in five years and 100,000 injuries avoided is invaluable" stressed the head of state during a cabinet meeting, congratulating the government on the measures put in place since 2002 to improve road safety.

The number of people killed on French roads in 2006 amounted to 4703, in line with the European standard practice of including deaths upto 30 days [after an accident], stated Dominique Perben, Transport Minister.

The results represented a reduction in the number of deaths of 11.6% against 2005 and 43% since 2002."

 

[JJ]

Bugbear,

Point taken, but you are missing the point, in general road engineering in France is way behind the UK, cats eyes have been around for donkeys years, and are generally considered as a cheap low tech aid to road safety.

So why have we not got them in France?

[Dick Smith]

Because there was never a Monsieur Perci le Rivage who rode his velo along the tramlines?

[Bugsy]

[quote user="JJ"]

Bugbear,

, in general road engineering in France is way behind the UK,

[/quote]

You are joking, the general condition of the roads in the UK is appalling. It's true that rural roads around here are not that good, but the trunk roads are excellent.

When was the last time you were delayed on a french road due to roadworks etc ?

Cats Eyes, the point of the thread, would, of course, be an aid to safety, but imagine the cost of installation throughout the whole french road system.

It could be that the reason they have not been utilised in france is simply that with the large number of wild feral cats about they could cause drivers to follow the wrong cats eyes................................[:)][:)]

[Dick Smith]

Percy Shaw once told an audience that it was just as well the cat was facing towards him, otherwise he might have invented the electric pencil sharpener.

[Bob T]

Why do you need cats eyes in the UK? They are not much use when you are stuck in nose to tail traffic or stuck at the raodworks lights.

I much prefer the quieter roads over here, cats eyes or none.

[JJ]

Bugbear,

Once again you are missing the point, what I mean when I mention road engineerring is not  just the condition of the road surface, I talking about junction layouts, white line systems, speed limits, etc etc and the ergonomics of the road system. In other words road layout design.

The French are way behind in that dept, the UK has one of the lowest road death rates in europe.

The original point I was trying to make is that cats eyes are an aid to road safety, I make quite a few early journeys in the darkness and cannot understand why they do not have them over here.

[Dick Smith]

I take your point, but most main roads in our part of France are well white-lined, and generally speaking safe at night. Unlike long unlit sections of the A3, where the white lines have worn out and the cats eyes seem to be missing. Also in France there seems to be much more reliance on roadside reflective markers, which are useful, too.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="JJ"]

Bugbear,

Once again you are missing the point, what I mean when I mention road engineerring is not  just the condition of the road surface, I talking about junction layouts, white line systems, speed limits, etc etc and the ergonomics of the road system. In other words road layout design.

The French are way behind in that dept, the UK has one of the lowest road death rates in europe.

The original point I was trying to make is that cats eyes are an aid to road safety, I make quite a few early journeys in the darkness and cannot understand why they do not have them over here.

[/quote]

No, I've not missed your point at all. The fact that they (cats eyes) are not in major use in france is just that, a fact. Drivers simply have to adjust their driving to take account of the differences. Personally, I've never had a problem with not being able to drive in a manner appropriate to the conditions that exist at the time. Ask me where I prefer to drive/ride, given a choice between France and the UK, and I would choose France every time.

[powerdesal]

I think you will find that the installation of 'cats eyes' in UK is not done any more. The modern road construction uses reflective paint instead. I am of course referring to the traditional centre line marking, there are still edge markers which approximate to cats eyes in some small way, although not, I believe, self wiping as the originals were/are.

[Bugsy]

This is the latest garbage........................................

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/cateye.htm

[powerdesal]

If they are used to drive a warning sign thats good, but how soon will they be for revenue earning???????

[Sunday Driver]

Road layout design in France is very different to that in the UK because traffic conditions are not the same  The French system is arguably more advanced and (according to the statistics) safer.

The French priority road (yellow triangle) concept is not mirrored in the UK.  Here in France, main road junction layouts involving a turn across oncoming traffic are always protected by solid white lines (and often islands).  In the UK, where they actually exist, such protection areas are generally bounded by broken lines which encourages illegal overtaking by impatient drivers at a dangerous point.  Traffic light phasing to make left turns safer is also more usual in France.

The use of stop lines is more frequent in France than in the UK, where pulling straight out into the path of an oncoming vehicle is a high risk event (known in motorcycle terms as the SMIDSY - "sorry mate, I didn't see you").  These "looked but failed to see" type accidents account for a high proportion of motorcycle casualties in the UK. The UK system which favours the Give Way is arguably designed to cope with heavier traffic conditions where more emphasis is given to emerging into a traffic stream or cutting across a junction whenever a gap occurs -  however small it may be.

The blanket French urban speed limit is less confusing than in the UK where differing urban limits (eg 30mph increased to 40mph) can often be introduced on the same stretch of road without any obvious change in environmental risk factors - and not always clearly signed, either.

In terms of ergonomics, the use of chicanes to reduce speed is more common in France, as are slip roads designed to ease traffic flow and avoid directional conflicts. Where dual carriageways arrive at a roundabout, speed reduction signs and road markings on the approach serve to funnel the traffic down into a single lane to safely negotiate the junction.  Using this methodology with UK traffic volumes would result in more congestion.

Widespread use of cycle lanes in urban areas, etc. etc etc .....

 

  

[Miki]

[quote user="JJ"]

Bugbear,

Once again you are missing the point, what I mean when I mention road engineerring is not  just the condition of the road surface, I talking about junction layouts, white line systems, speed limits, etc etc and the ergonomics of the road system. In other words road layout design.

The French are way behind in that dept, the UK has one of the lowest road death rates in europe.

The original point I was trying to make is that cats eyes are an aid to road safety, I make quite a few early journeys in the darkness and cannot understand why they do not have them over here.

[/quote]

Even the most biased Francophile surely could not deny, that too many roads have been designed badly here. For example, cars using the same road for leaving as those entering a dual carriageway, such as one we have near us in Saint Malo, where two such places within 200 metres of each other, have been responsible for a few deaths over the years and several accidents per year, purely because of the bad design. Another one is to have far too short tails leading from one road to another at a sometimes busy juction, thus allowing large tailbacks at busy times, meaning cars are backed up on to another busy road. This I have seen far too often and what puzzles me, is the amount of land around, where a far larger distance of feed in, could be made to alleviate it totally.

Although now, for a large part mostly faded out, roundabout priority should never have been allowed to evolutionise as it has. And why do they bother with 2 lanes on some roundabouts? The French in general will just use the outside lane and go round in that manner until departing it. Daughter says they are not taught like that these days but they just simply follow the leader, so to speak. And by the way, if you act as you should on the roundabouts and then have an accident with someone going all the way around on the outside and never signalling, no matter that you drove correctly, it is you to blame.

Do I like the roads here ? Well yes in general but, one often has to be able drive against all road logic, one eye on the the sans permis and other people in a regular motor doing 50 kph on autoroutes and one on the other load of driving looneys...doesn't leave many eyes left to watch the road itself, does it !![;-)]

[Dick Smith]

You are both right, of course.

Does anyone know the route into Ouistreham at Port de Bretagne where both the incoming and leaving traffic on the autoroute share an access? It's a nightmare on what is otherwise a well designed road.

The 2 lanes on roundabouts is a similar bad dream. What on earth would possess a young woman (child in car) talking on the phone, lighting a cigarette, eating a sandwich, try to overtake me on the left on a tight roundabout? Does she think Volvos bend in the middle? I now take a central line and stick to it...

And is that route indicator still in Tours? The one that says Toutes Directions to the left and Autres Deirections to the right?

BUT I still find driving in France much more logical and relaxing (less traffic, of course, in la campagne profonde) than in the UK. Especially once you learn how to read the destination signs.

[saddie]

The roadside reflective things on poles are very good for identifying the edge of the road. However their use and density seems to vary from department to department. Coming north from Toulouse they were close together through Lot and were very useful. Once we got to Correze however, they were more sparse. Perhaps it would be a good idea if ther were some regulations as to their use. Hey, this is France how come ther is not a statuary spacing?

[Miki]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]

The 2 lanes on roundabouts is a similar bad dream. What on earth would possess a young woman (child in car) talking on the phone, lighting a cigarette, eating a sandwich, try to overtake me on the left on a tight roundabout? Does she think Volvos bend in the middle? I now take a central line and stick to it

[/quote]

[:D] [:D]

And the arrows, that have, since roads began, pointed to the left but any fool knows it means straight on...even though many arrows actually point upwards to mean straight on....  [8-)]

[Teamedup]

Those bloody road signs. 'I' got the hang of them just about straight away, but dear me, when my other half navigates......less said really.

One day I had my Dad and husband both screaming at me to turn right when I went straight on, coz that was what the road sign meant me to do.

 

I like cat's eyes. I'm pretty sure I have seen something rather cat's eye'ish some where in France on our travels, but can't remember where now.

There only used to be one roundabout within a hundred miles of here and I used it the other day. Not only was it the only one, it was and still is big, three unmarked lanes. The road I was on that joined it had two lanes and I took the inside lane as I was going straight on. So why did the two cars in the outside lane go left without indicating. It is really dangerous to drive in such a manner. I do wish that now roundabouts are a la mode in France that people would learn how to use them. Traffic would circulate better if they did too. The other day I was stuck in three different jams in that city and that was mid afternoon, I was pleased we left just before rush hour.

 

[SC]

A  reflective paint for white lines incorporating crushed oyster shells has recently successfully passed traffic wear tests here. We may soon see it in use.

Steve

[Teamedup]

I wished cats eyes on my way home tonight. It was a filthy night here, very dark and the rain very very heavy and visibility was poor. For all I know the road all too well, it was hard seeing where I was.

 

[Ford Anglia]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Percy Shaw disliked the French, so refused to allow them to use his patent, and that's why they have no cat's eyes? Or is that another myth?

Anyway, I reckon that the unlit french roads were the reason Cibie came up with such excellent lights, using the new "quartz-iodine", (now called "halogen"), bulbs in the late 60's, and also came up with "assymetric dip".

My own personal favourite, having driven many thousands of miles after dark, is motorways with centre reservation barriers high enough to allow traffic moving in one direction to use full beams, driving lights, heck, even rally lights if you have them, WITHOUT annoying drivers in the other direction. Something the UK needs badly. The A1 north of Peterborough is a case in point: sparsely lit, if at all, LOADS of stuff coming the other way, so no main beams, and who wants to drive on dips at 70mph?

I suppose I could do what an increasing number of ill-mannered people do, and drive on main beam, totally ignoring complaints from the opposite carriageway...........[:@]

[Gyn_Paul]

When I first started driving in France, my general impression was that the road were extremely well marked. It took it to be because of the awful reflectivity with yellow headlamps (yes, it was that long ago). So even with deflectors, UK white lamps were vertually dazzling.  Since white bulbs came in , my impression is that the maintainance of the white lines seem to have taken a back seat. Maybe deemed not quite as important ?

p

[chirpy]

The original cats eyes have to be cemented into a hole as they are about a 4" cube shape and self clean due to the rubber pad being pressed into the hole when a vehicle passes over them.The large glass eyes  are cleaned in this way .A very clever invention.

However they are expensive and time consuming to place.

In the60's a plastic( polycarbonate) tile  with 2 rows of smaller glass  eyes was produced which was very thin compared with the above cube,about 0.5"thick by 4"square.

These plastic tiles were stuck to the road with a 2 pack epoxy glue and available in white,red  and yellow so they could be used as centre or verge and exit indicators. 

Sizes are from memory as I was a chemist who produced paint containing reflective glass beads(Ballotini) which was used world wide generally in a chlorinated/alkyd fast drying paint..the paint is spray applied to the road and glass bead dropped onto the wet surface.

I WOULG GUESS FRANCE WOULD NOT LIKE TO HAVE THE EXPENSE OF THE ORIGINAL SELF CLEANING TYPE AS I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE SEEN ANY IN MY TRAVELS BUT WITNESS MUCH PAINTING.

GOD THAT TAKES ME BACK A FEW YEARS TO 1970 WHEN I WAS BASED IN BERGER TRAFFIC MARKINGS-NOW A DEFUNCT COMPANY