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ceumur
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There seem to be different ideas as to what is allowed with cars down here in Beaucaire

Some owners have english cars with no tax, no mot but eng insurance. The next catagory have a c/t and eng insurance. The next have c/t and french insurance.

Is it really khosher to play about like this?

Personally I have a french car, c/t and french insurance but one of these others takes out my car - or anything else for that matter - then where do I stand. OK with fully comp my own insurance will sort it out but then you have a claim record. 

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Ceumur,

This subject has been done to death - simple search will provide details. Basically:

Resident in France

First group - no tax/MOT but ''english ins'' - scumbags that should be reported.  Car must be legal for the country of registration furthermore their english insurance is normally only valid for 90 days outside UK.  If this insurer runs over your family there will be no insurance.

2nd group - CT and ''english insurance'' - possible valid for a very limited period only whilst changing to french plates and french insurance - however you would anticipate owner being insured with french company to matriculate vehicle.  More than 30 days as above eg scumbag report to the police.  If this driver runs over your family who knows?

3rd group - looks like they are serious about matriculation - again limited period so as previous after 90 days (?) - french insurance companies normally hassle you after a short while if not matriculated.  Sunday Driver will have a better grasp of the rules.  Depends on whether they have extended the time on UK plates and their french insurance company is aware and agreed otherwise your family has been destroyed by another selfish Brit.

With all the above note the British Number Plate and e-mail DVLA with all details cos if they have SORN'd the vehicle they should be done.

There is enough information on this forum thanks to SD and others for individuals to take the correct action and not further blacken our collective reputation.

regards

Vern

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This has been covered in the driving part of the forum.

Just an outline, a French resident is legally obliged to import a car and should not drive on UK plates. If a car has UK insurance, then they are not covered if they are not a UK resident. To be legal a UK registered car must have Tax and MOT.

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"no tax/MOT but ''english ins'' - scumbags that should be reported"

These cars are not insured, why shoukld they be and if they were with no MOT the insurance is invaild anyway.

I agree 100% these scumbags who do no service to the British in France should be reported but to who???  the UK DVLA don't care,  I know people who have been reported to the DVLA for using their UK reg car whilst SORN'd in the UK and nothing has happened to them  AXA at Figeac still keep insuring UK reg cars for a year with no conditions attached on french registration and the gendarmes at the various airports where these cars are left turn a blind eye to them, like all those who recently gave advice to that Volvo owner who it was clear as daylight was using an old uninsured banger for driving about when in France.

I was talking to French lady who lives near a Ryanair used airport and she was appalled to learn that most of the UK cars in the car park are not insured etc but up to then she was not aware of it, maybe it is time that the issue was brought to the attention of the French media. 

 

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]

"no tax/MOT but ''english ins'' - scumbags that should be reported"

These cars are not insured, why shoukld they be and if they were with no MOT the insurance is invaild anyway.

I agree 100% these scumbags who do no service to the British in France should be reported but to who???  the UK DVLA don't care,  I know people who have been reported to the DVLA for using their UK reg car whilst SORN'd in the UK and nothing has happened to them  AXA at Figeac still keep insuring UK reg cars for a year with no conditions attached on french registration and the gendarmes at the various airports where these cars are left turn a blind eye to them, like all those who recently gave advice to that Volvo owner who it was clear as daylight was using an old uninsured banger for driving about when in France.

I was talking to French lady who lives near a Ryanair used airport and she was appalled to learn that most of the UK cars in the car park are not insured etc but up to then she was not aware of it, maybe it is time that the issue was brought to the attention of the French media. 

 

[/quote]

I am not surprised that she was appalled, however if you were telling her that most were not insured because they did not have a current MOT then I would beg to disagree with you.

I am not trying to pick a fight and I realise that this is a very emotive subject for some but to extrapolate that the lack of an MOT means not complying with the terms of the policy =  not insured is like the poster in the DIY section that said "I have a feeling that if you do your own electrical work your house insurance is invalidated".

I agree that you have reason for what you say, and that it is contrary to the policy terms, I also think that it is quite likely that the insurance company would try to not pay for the insureds losses, BUT they will always pay out on third party liability.

I think this forum is great to discussion and be better informed on issues such as this but the downside is that now there is an "appalled" French lady who thinks that the majority of British drivers are uninsured here.

I know that you only meant most of the UK reg cars parked at the airport but by the time this has been dispersed amongst her friends you can easily see how it will end and also where all the other stories (Brits pushing up house prices, villages with 90% Brits etc) started.

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JR,

suggest you read the thread and countless others in closer detail.

British insurance is invalid without MOT and RFL, no arguments.  In the event of an accident, the insurance company will try every possible excuse not to pay out.  Assuming that they will "always pay out on third party liability" is a very dodgy and scumbag attitude.

Ron,  totally agree with your post and would support any action to remove the illegal UK cars from the airports etc.  Scumbags is polite term for these people who are dodging the law just so that they can have a vehicle to use whilst they are in France.

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Yes, scumbags is the correct description. On the insurance point, UK companies will only insure UK residents. If these people told the insurance companies that they were residents of France then their policy would be cancelled.

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Yes, what I actually told her is that most of the UK registered cars parked in the airport car park at Rodez are not insured.  That is a fact.  I really don't care what other rumours persist about the English, if this leads to a clamp down on UK reg cars and checks on papers well about time to!!  I hope the French have the same powers to confiscate an uninsured car as they have in the UK.

These cars have no UK tax discs which is a sure sign of no MOT or insurance, anyway , JR which UK insurer insures a car kept in France at an airport in the open without an MOT registred to a UK address?  Most of these cars are SORN'd in the UK,  checks can easily be made on the DVLA website and you cannot get MOTs in France can you?

 

Bob

These scumbags are not all residents of France, yes there are a lot who live here who use a UK reg car,  we all know some don't we?  Most have a UK address or holiday cover from an address in the UK and/or have SORN'd  the car in the UK . A few actuallty bother to MOT, Tax and insure their cars to keep the UK plates, but generally tell a few porkies about where they really live.

But a lot of the old bangers around at holiday time belong to second home owners who leave them at ports and airports so that they can have transport whilst in France and take the chance that they don't hit anyone or anything.

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[quote user="pcwhizz"]JR,
 Assuming that they will "always pay out on third party liability" is a very dodgy and scumbag attitude.

[/quote]

Editted because I originally thought that Ron had posted the above, I have now put in the correct names, apologies Ron if you already had read it.

PC Whizz I am not assuming, it is my knowledge.

I am neither dodgy nor a scumbag.

My car is matriculated, CT'd and insured in France, so Ron I cannot answer your question regarding which insurer will insure a car left at an airport, probably none knowingly.

My comments were made regarding UK insurers, not French, who will in fact extend cover to 3rd parties even if your non CT'd vehicle is taken from your home without your permission.

Without wanting to post the long story again my knowledge (of UK insurers) comes from being closely involved someone who was the victim of an accident involving a stolen ute driven by an uninsured "traveller" while fleeing from the Police.

The victims car, (he was seriously injured) loss of earnings and medical bills etc were met by the insurers of the owner of the UTE who was fast asleep in bed at the time and certainly didn't give permission etc.

Ironically this was the reason that the insurers would not pay the ute owner who was unable to claim for his vehicle but is still now having to pay increased premiums. Kind of sends out the wrong message don't you think?

Now in my view both the person fleeing the Police and the insurance company are deserving of the title scumbag.

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JR I think PC whizz is suggesting that to rely on any third party damage or injury being paid out by an insurer when no attempt had been made to properly insure the car or to make false statements as to the location of the car or the address of the owner,  is a scumbag attitude and I think I would agree with that. 
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JR,

Whilst I have no personal knowledge of the ins and outs of the UK car insurance industry, is it likely that the innocent victims costs and losses were paid from the industry fund which (I believe)  all the insurance companies pay into, rather than being paid by the individual insurance company from its own funds? Or have I misunderstood the sketchy information that I have come across in the past.

It certainly doesn't change the message though, regarding the equally innocent owner who is doubly penalised for having the temerity to allow his car to be stolen.

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Powderesal

No it was his insurers, my friend actually had to pursue an action against the poor individual (who in turn claimed from his insurers) which he was really unhappy about but with a family to feed and unable to work he had no choice.

It's a crazy world!

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If only the UK goverment or insurance industry would wake up and provide windscreen vignettes most of these problems would not exist.

I am not surprised that the DVLA and or the Police are not interested when these people are reported, they just seem to want the easy life sending out speed tickets and punishing the law abiding and easily traceable.

When insurance companies are made aware of people not abiding by the terms it is usually after an accident (and yes they have had to pay out 3rd party damages) they then write to the policyholder, usually refunding the reminder of the premium, saying that "we are cancelling your policy as you have witheld material facts etc etc...."

If you were able to report any of these car owners to their insurers I am certain that they would do the same but without a vignette how do you know who the insurer is if he exists at all.

The women that posted regarding her Volvo automatic I am certain was one of these with a convenience car here.

I had some customers in England that definitely smelt dodgy although I would have been too scared to call them the word that has been used here for fear of ending up as a concrete footing, more than one of them.

What was common to them all was that they owned villas in Spain and had identical Mercs or BMs permanently out there with identical license plates to their cars in the UK, and so I think it is reasonable to assume the same insurance.

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 I totally agree with the substance of this thread and have zero sympathy or respect for the "scumbags".

At the risk of being picky though please excuse me if I expand on Ron's comment:-

[quote user="Ron Avery"]These cars have no UK tax discs which is a sure sign of no MOT or insurance[/quote]

In all probability Ron is right that the absence of a current Tax disc is a pretty good indication of the lack of the other 2 however it is by no means a "sure sign".

Tax, Insurance & MOT are totally unrelated in time therefore it is perfectly possible to have full years Insurance and MOT and yet still have no Tax or indeed have virtually any permutation of the 3 items.

Might I also point out that the whilst it is frequently claimed that lack of Tax and/or MOT invalidates insurance it is a myth.

There was an article in one of the Sunday motoring supplement some while ago from which I quote:

"The Association of British Insurers (ABI) says that insurance policies will still pay out in full on any third party claims and in the case of damage to or theft of your own vehicle, payouts may be reduced to reflect the lower market value of a car without an MoT.

There are very few policies that insist in the small print that an MoT must be in force otherwise they will refuse to pay. These, however, are extremely rare, but it is worth checking the wording just in case.

If the car has no road tax the ABI says insurers are still obliged under the Road Traffic Act to pay out for both third party and comprehensive claims. The fact that you are commmitting an offence by not having tax is irrelevant."
 

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Ernie quoted:

There are very few policies that insist in the small print that an MoT must be in force otherwise they will refuse to pay.

However, most insurance T&Cs state that the vehicle must be maintained in a roadworthy condition. Would the absence of an MOT enable them to claim that the vehicle is not in a roadworthy condition?

Other T&Cs that might be included, in the case of UK insurance is that the person is a UK resident. That the insurance company is informed each time the vehicle is taken abroad and for how long which, if the person is resident in France how do they do this?

Paul

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The lack of an MOT could give grounds for refusal but the circumstances of any incident would be taken into account. A different view would no doubt be taken for a simple oversight on an otherwise reasonably maintained vehicle as opposed to a rusty old banger that clearly was incapable of passing a test. Remember also that an MOT is only an indication of the state of the vehicle at the time of it's test and it could quite unwittingly become technically unroadworthy 5 minutes after leaving the testing station, a damaged tyre perhaps or even something as simple as a blown bulb would be enough to do it.

If they though they could get away with it I'm sure the insurance companies would insist on an MOT type test for every vehicle involved in a claim so they could refuse to pay out for the most minor of details which could technically declare a vehicle unroadworthy.

If you take a moment to think about it, if the lack of an MOT did automatically invalidate ones insurance then you would most certainly be facing prosecution for no insurance as well as no MOT however this does not happen and the usual penalty for no MOT is a modest fine and no points on your licence.

Agreed that UK insurance is generally conditional on residency although it is not always necessary to inform the company every time a vehicle it is taken out of UK. My own insurance for instance allows me a maximum of 90 days at a time as many times as I like and I do not have to tell them when I'm going. Theoretically I could spend 89 days away, return to UK overnight then do another 89 days and so on.

Incidentally, in the Eurozone at least, your UK insurance will automatically cover you for the minimum requrements in the country or countries being visited and it is only to extend this to comprehensive cover that you may need to inform them. This used to be done with the good old "Green Card" which to all intents and purposes no longer exists or is neccessary.

To finally get back to the OP's question, no, it is not kosher to "Mix-n-Match" to suit ones self, a vehicle must be fully legal in ones place of residence, be that UK or France.  

 

 

 

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Well done Ernie Y you put across the real facts (as opposed to popular opinion, interpretaion and as you said myth) and justified them very well, something that until now I have been unable to do.

I don't get all angry about the many Brit's around here that still hacve UK registered, taxed (sometimes) and hopefully insured vehicles, I just think more fool them, if they have UK fully comp insurance then they are paying the difference between that and 3rd party for no return, and as most of us know it is far cheaper to register and insure your car in France.

I can see that the UK government is never going to insist on insurance vignettes in the windscreen but what a pity that France can not insist that foreign registered cars (ostensibly here on holiday[:)]) have one.

That way if you know of someone who does not register their car you could easily see if they were insured and have good reason to report them to the Gendarmes.

I know of someone who should know better but continues to use an unroadworthy, now untested, untaxed and uninsured UK registered vehicle, if they have an accident their family will suffer severely from their selfishness but what can I do?

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I just hope that it is their family who suffers and not yours or someone else's.Just think that if they hit a child(God forbid)they could be paying compensation for the rest of their lives-even while in prison.
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From what I can make of the law you must have a car which is legal in the country that it is regestered in. I know of one that was regestered in the U.K., was exported to France, still carries U.K. plates, a CT sticker and French insurance...

I have been trying to find out from the DVLC what happens to a U.K. regestration when the car is exported. So far no result on that. But if it is not regestered in the U.K then where is it regestered? And if it flattens your family how the heck do you trace the driver of a car that possibly isn't regestered anywhere?

My French insurerance brokers told me that a vehicle must have a test from the country of regestration, so U.K. = MOT. France = CT. No mixing or matching there. The insurers are an English company that work solely in France and mainly for expats and have done so for years.

The word pillock comes to mind. I like to sleep nights thank you and mine is a French car, bought in Holland and regestered in France.

Lastly if you do drive one of these vehicles then don't run into me or I may just get a bit techy!

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[quote user="Jonzjob"]

.

The word pillock comes to mind. I like to sleep nights thank you and mine is a French car, bought in Holland and regestered in France.

Lastly if you do drive one of these vehicles then don't run into me or I may just get a bit techy!

[/quote]

 

Aint that the truth! On my way to Brico-Depot I take a short cut which is a country road where,during the day at least, most of the vehicles I encounter are British registered due to the 2 WW1 touristic monuments there.

I have to be very carefull because frequently I come face to face with one driving on the wrong side of the road, it would be just my luck to find that it was driven by a local ex-pat.

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