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Using UK electrical equipment


Adrian
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I appreciate that the different electrical set-up in France (two-pin as opposed to three-pin) means using adapters for example when on holiday, but what about taking electrical items across permanently. I'm guessing that it is advisable to buy new items in France for those that have three pins in the UK. What about those items though which have two wires in the UK (such as table lamps) - is it okay just to change the plug to a French two-pin or is that not a safe move?

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[quote user="Pommier"]All UK electrical appliances will work perfectly ok in France - just change the plugs to French plugs, 2 or 3 pin as appropriate.[/quote]

Pommier's advice is good, the only thing I would add is if you bring over brand new appliances do not cut the UK plugs off until the guarantee runs out. I made up French to UK short leads rather than using adaptors, I don't know if that system is better than adaptors, just a personal choice. 

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Nick, I believe that there are a few old threads on how it's best to change the plugs rather than use adaptors.  I suppose that is particularly the case for high wattage items such as irons.

I think some people who used adaptors have talked of the adaptors melting![:-))]

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Some equipment have removable leads with the connector the same as to a tower computer. Some computer manufacturers include a UK and the type used in France. The latter is discarded in the UK.

You could try asking a computer dealer if they would give you some or you may work for a company that frequently buys computers and ask the IT department.
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[quote user="sweet 17"]

Nick, I believe that there are a few old threads on how it's best to change the plugs rather than use adaptors.  I suppose that is particularly the case for high wattage items such as irons.

I think some people who used adaptors have talked of the adaptors melting![:-))]

[/quote]

 

I rest my case, as I said "I make up short French to UK leads"  [geek].

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I would endorse what others have said. I have taken a lot of electrical appliances from UK to France and have simply put a French plug on them.

I also agree that you should not do this for new appliances in view of the guarantee, but all the stuff I have taken has been recycled from our UK home so that has not been a problem. The only things I use adapters for are items which I take with me such as netbook and camera chargers.

Andy

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Adrian you posted '' I appreciate that the different electrical set-up in France (two-pin as opposed to three-pin) ''

Are you referring to the fact that a French plug has two pins ( live + neutral ) with a socket which engages with the earth pin that is mounted in the wall socket outlet or are you perhaps thinking that all French electrics are just two-pin in the conventional UK sense ?

A UK 3 pin plug can be removed and the 3 wires connected to a French plug, the live and neutral to the pins of the plug and the earth wire to the earth socket connection of the plug.

It is most certainly not advisable to buy new items in France rather than use the ex-UK items, unless of course you do not feel confident in changing a plug or have warranty issues as mentioned above.
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'' I appreciate that the different electrical set-up in France (two-pin as opposed to three-pin) ''

I would like to make a few general points which may help Adrian.

The first is that many electrical products are made for a generic European market, and that sometimes the only feature that signifies a product for a specific territory is the plug at the end of the cable. Should there be variations in the supply voltage, these are automatically transformed to the voltage used by the appliance.

Nominally, the domestic power supply in France is identical to that in the UK - 220v-240v 50Hz ac.

The distinction between "live" and "neutral" is usually of no significance because the appliance contains a switch which disconnects both sides of the supply. Indeed, it is impossible to be certain, when using a two-pin plug, that it is inserted into the socket in the same way every time.

Many appliances do not require an earth. Even if a three-pin UK plug is fitted, the cable may only contain two wires. If you check the information panel (usually on the back of the appliance) you may see a symbol consisting of two concentric squares: appliances bearing this symbol are double insulated and do not require an earth.

In my French home I have some double three pin sockets with one socket above the other and upside down. When I removed the cover on one of them I found that the internal connectors just ran straight up, one connecting the terminals on the left-hand side, the other those on the right. It was therefore immaterial which was live and which was neutral.

As others have said, just put new plugs onto your UK appliancs.
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I think in a court of law a UK supplier would have a very hard time indeed in refusing a warranty claim simply because the customer had fitted a different plug to an appliance !

How realistic is it though that you would even return a non postable item, say a washing machine or similar sized item, to the supplier in UK if it went wrong under guarantee and if they directed you to the French agent then I very much doubt they would even comment if it turned up with a French plug on it.

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may I just add that changing plugs is easy just make sure you replace with one of the same rating. i.e. 16A , 6A etc. 

I do find it odd that French plugs are not fused, i.e. the fuse protects the appliance.

One thing we did was get a UK multiblock plug and just change the cable that plugs into the wall for a 16A French plug. This works well for TV/SKY Box/DVD/Amp etc. i.e. where they are a lot of UK things together.

It's interesting reading some of these posts saying it would invalidate the warranty. I am assuming that stuff that comes for France and has it's plug changed is going to stay in France. It wouldn't make sense (to me anyway) that if something went wrong you would ship it back to the UK. I'm thinking of TV's , fridges, washing machines, cookers etc.

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Be careful with UK table lamps that have single pole switches on the cable - change them to bi-pole.

Referring to Clarke Kent's post above, if you put a French plug on it you do not know if you are isolating the bulbholder from the supply or not. No problem for you perhaps, but little fingers? Exactly why sockets are shielded.

Steve
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[quote user="SC"]Be careful with UK table lamps that have single pole switches on the cable - change them to bi-pole. Referring to Clarke Kent's post above, if you put a French plug on it you do not know if you are isolating the bulbholder from the supply or not. No problem for you perhaps, but little fingers? Exactly why sockets are shielded. Steve[/quote]

Hi Ok

  Sorry but you are wrong ...the way the French system works ..both the + & - are protected ..unlike the uk system when only the live is protected ..so  pos and neg can be any which way but loose

  Dave

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Yes but was not the comment about bringing over UK sourced equipment?

In my experience the built in switches on UK appliances are single pole, only switch the live assuming that the polarity has been reversed, the identical products sold on the French market usually dont have any switch at all which I find inconvenient but understandable.

The examples that spring to mid are toasters, toasted sandwich makers, irons, etc, the next time that I repair a halogen oven I will look to see if the switch is single pole.

Re the French system protecting both live and neutral, that depends on the age and the conformity of your installation, mine has no RCD protection and even the fuses are single pole, later fusibles or disjoncteurs will section the neutral as well as the live, the biggest danger in reversed polarity, and EDF actually reconnected my property reversed, is when changing light bulbs, many people just switch off the light.

Where my property had the polarity reversed I removed the fuse at the board to work on a circuit only to find the painfull way that it was still live and now unfused [:-))]

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[:-))] They did the same to a friends house in the UK, one destroyed boiler and a fire in the washer dryer was a big clue.

So the french have a system?  well please explain more, if it's a bayonet fitting, then both connections are at the bottom away from fingers.  If it's Edisson screw then the central pin is only supposed to be live and neutral on the threaded part for obvious reasons but because low power 2 pin french plugs can be reversed, as can double sockets as previously mentioned that well thought out approach is ruined, so this system? 

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"I do find it odd that French plugs are not fused, i.e. the fuse protects the appliance."

I know naff all about electricity beyond what I learned in Physics, but from experience I prefer the French system. If there's a problem the fuse at the fuseboard flips as fast as any fuse in an appliance could blow, so the appliance is just as protected - and it's a darn sight easier to reset the disjoncteur than to have to change a fuse in a plug, first finding the right fuse.
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The fuse more importantly protects the user, yes nothing wrong with the french idea providing all of the electrics are good conductors, a faulty connection could give rise to an issue as electricity may take a different path via a person.  Finding a new fuse can be easier and cheaper than running a new cable through a gain buried in a wall and more importantly the act of finding a fuse prevents people immediately returning power to a circuit which has a problem otherwise the fuse wouldn't have blown.  With RCD's being standard in the UK now the two systems are reasonably the same safety wise and as you say RCD's can trip faster than fuses these days.
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I hope that Chancer's post has corrected the erroneus statement that I was wrong regarding table lamps etc clearly enough.

I forgot toasters, yes I've had a belt getting a small slice out of a UK toaster here........

 Théière  said: "RCD's can trip faster than fuses these days. "

As I'm sure you know RCDs perform a different function to fuses.  MCBs perform the same function as fuses. The circumstances in which they trip/blow can overlap, but not necessarily so. RCDs are the best protection against shock (particularly on two-wire appliances), correct MCBs or fuses the best  protection against fire.

If bringing over UK electrical equipment why not pay 50 pence for an eu/uk adapter at the same time. It's quicker, no need to cut off the moulded plug, and it negates the chance that you may make a poor job of stuffing the cable into the flimsy, poorly designed french plug.

Steve

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[quote user="Théière"]

[:-))] They did the same to a friends house in the UK, one destroyed boiler and a fire in the washer dryer was a big clue.

So the french have a system?  well please explain more, if it's a bayonet fitting, then both connections are at the bottom away from fingers.  If it's Edisson screw then the central pin is only supposed to be live and neutral on the threaded part for obvious reasons but because low power 2 pin french plugs can be reversed, as can double sockets as previously mentioned that well thought out approach is ruined, so this system? 

[/quote]

I assume you mean "Is this a system?"

Yes, of course it is - it's a learning system - kids learn at an early age that they will be thrown across the room painfully if they hold a lamp bulb by the metal base when changing it base or stick their finger in the socket [:D]

 

 

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Yes indeed Steve, RCD's as we know detect stray current and fuses just overloads, better to have both as a break in the cable anywhere and an RCD may not trip so the full packet goes to the nearest conductor which could be you, with the fuse only blowing when it gets hot enough.

A point on adapters which not everyone may know, they are widely available with smaller/thinner pins like table lamps have for 6amp max applications. There is a slightly fatter pinned version available which can take higher loads.

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[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Théière"]

[:-))] They did the same to a friends house in the UK, one destroyed boiler and a fire in the washer dryer was a big clue.

So the french have a system?  well please explain more, if it's a bayonet fitting, then both connections are at the bottom away from fingers.  If it's Edisson screw then the central pin is only supposed to be live and neutral on the threaded part for obvious reasons but because low power 2 pin french plugs can be reversed, as can double sockets as previously mentioned that well thought out approach is ruined, so this system? 

[/quote]

I assume you mean "Is this a system?"

Yes, of course it is - it's a learning system - kids learn at an early age that they will be thrown across the room painfully if they hold a lamp bulb by the metal base when changing it base or stick their finger in the socket [:D]

[/quote]

No I meant, "so this system" to which you allude. 

I use that to recharge my batteries Nomoss, doesn't everyone?  since building shocking coils from an early age and being tortured by my elder brother it took a while but revenge is a dish best served with high tension!!!!

 

 

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'' If bringing over UK electrical equipment why not pay 50 pence for an eu/uk adapter at the same time. It's quicker, no need to cut off the moulded plug, and it negates the chance that you may make a poor job of stuffing the cable into the flimsy, poorly designed french plug. ''

I do not consider French plugs to be either flimsy nor poorly designed.

As an electrical engineer of many years experience I prefer the the French system - that is of course only my personal view, others may differ !!!!!
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Powerdiesel wrote: "I do not consider French plugs to be either flimsy nor poorly designed."

We beg to differ, perhaps you've never had a plug body come away from the inner while trying to remove it from the socket. Or found a bare pin that's come out of a plug still in a socket.

"As an electrical engineer of many years experience I prefer the the French system - that is of course only my personal view, others may differ"

And so do I, until the supply gets to the socket. No switch on the socket, no (correct) fuse to protect the flex, no earth prong on the three pin plug so it can be plugged into a two pin socket, no effective cable clamp (generally), some sockets with grips rather than screws that pull out of the wall with the plug ........I think the designers of the French electrical plug and telephone plug received each other's design briefs!

edit: my comments regarding flimsiness and cable security don't apply to moulded-on plugs.
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