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Challenging a speed camera.


David
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On the 3rd June we were flashed by the last speed camera on the autoroute from Rouen before turning off for the Eurotunnel.

We were rather miffed as we were not speeding.  We were aware of the camera because of the warning sign and also the GPS, which warned us of a 130 kph camera.  Approaching the camera we were not worried as we had plenty of time for the train, and we were only doing 105 to 110 kph.  The weather was dry, clear and sunny.

We were flashed when we were perhaps about 50 to 100 metres from the camera.  There was another car in front of us which had just overtaken us, and the camera flashed just as it appeared to us that he was abreast of the camera.  We doubt if he was speeding either as he passed us quite slowly.

About two minutes later, after we had passed the camera and passed over the crest of a hill, we ran into a bank of thickish mist, and we wonder if the camera might have had it's speed limit reduced for bad weather.

We have not yet received any notification about this incident, but as I am the registered car owner, and in case I am charged with speeding I would like to ask a couple of questions.

A) Has anyone else been flashed by this camera when they were not speeding?

B) How do you challenge a speed camera speeding fine in France?

Many thanks in anticipation,

David

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When "someone I know" has been flashed in France, it's VERY close to the camera, certainly NOT 50 to 100 metres, so I'd not worry unduly.

Does your car carry French, or English plates? If it's the latter, again, I'd not worry at the moment, as the legislation is not yet fully in place to collect this tax, sorry, fine, unless you are driving a French registered car. It's coming, though, so beware.

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Thanks for that.  Unfortunately we were driving a right hand drive (UK) car which had been registered in France, so we had French plates.

Perhaps it was the car in front of us which was flashed, although we thought it was abeam of the camera when it flashed.

Thanks,

David

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If you were 50 metres from the camera,  it was not you it flashed so don't worry.

For future reference if you do get flashed you will know it,  its bright andd in your face if its a forward facing camera, and you get a notification of the fine within 7 days of the event.  With this notification comes a form to challenge the offence if you want to, though you still have to make a payment on account if you do this. I'm not aware of any fixed cameras that change their speed criteria because of the weather.

Glad to hear you registered your car, unlike a lot of scumbags that seem to getting out the old MOT failures round here, seen this week red S reg Volvo at Rodez Airport taxed to May 2003 and K reg Peugeot 405 at najac with a nice clear windscreen.

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[quote user="David"]

Thanks for that.  Unfortunately we were driving a right hand drive (UK) car which had been registered in France, so we had French plates.

Perhaps it was the car in front of us which was flashed, although we thought it was abeam of the camera when it flashed.

Thanks,

David

[/quote]

Hi

Same happened to me while on holiday in France over the New Year. I was well under the posted limit, and within about 50-100 metres of the camera when it went off. Seconds later a car in the outside lane hurtled past me. We never received anything in the post, and i suspect the camera was actually flashing the other car from a distance.

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I thought the cameras were supposed to take a double image (ie 2 flashes) precisely to get over the problem of more than one vehicle in the frame.  It would then be easy to see who was going fastest - not sure what would happen if more than one vehicle was over the limit.  Perhaps only the fastest fined?
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Just a half hearted query about speeding cameras in the UK, did the london to brighton bike ride on sunday, hubby said he would carry my water sac for me getting near to birghton as i was tired, flying down the hill to birghton hubby gets double flashed by the speed camera then 2 mins later the bloke in front of me as well .  will i get a fine as it was my number on the back pack[Www]

j

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[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]I wonder then, if there are 2 cars in the frame when flashed, how is it determined which (or both) of the cars were speeding? or is it assumed it's always the one in the outside lane?[/quote]

Depends on the camera - the old Gatso's took 2 pictures and the speed was calculated from the distance travelled. Modern ones have multiple (radar, I assume) detectors, I believe and measure the speed directly, the picture is to confirm identity. Even more modern ones don't use a camera at all, they use numberplate recognition.

But all this is irrelevant to the OP, who wants to know how to challenge a speed camera; I'd suggest that you throw down your driving glove, kick it in the bo**ocks then run....

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I wouldn't even attempt to try and challenge the penalty, you could end up paying a hell of a lot more in legal fees than the 90€ penalty. Its less stressfull to pay up the 90€ within the 15 days than the full 345€ after that than worry about standing in a dock somewhere a long way away and trying to argue against the mighty french syste.
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[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]I wonder then, if there are 2 cars in the frame when flashed, how is it determined which (or both) of the cars were speeding? or is it assumed it's always the one in the outside lane?[/quote]

I'd imagine that the powers that be would rub there hands together in glee, then apply the tax, sorry, fine, to both cars.

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[quote user="nicktrollope"]

[But all this is irrelevant to the OP, who wants to know how to challenge a speed camera; I'd suggest that you throw down your driving glove, kick it in the bo**ocks then run....

[/quote]

I used to that to the bullies at school when I was young and fit, and could run run run.  Kicking the backside rather than the bo**ocks gave a good head start.  However, I learnt not to do it before school lunch (lunches were good in those days) as the bullies just waited outside the refectory.  Funny thing, by next day the bullies had usually forgotten who they were chasing the day before (a bit dim), so I learnt to challenge just before going home.

These days even the camera could catch me, so how about you throw down your driving glove, kick it in the bo**ocks being careful not to overbalance on the crutches, throw a glass of vin rouge at it, blast it with a few pleasantries such as "may your film always be overdeveloped, and may your power supply fry you in the next thunderstorm"  then snootily turn your back and resume passage.

Seriously, I have still not received any letters, so it looks as if it was not me who was flashed.  Excellent thought.  I am fascinated by the technical lnowledge on this forum, and I am enjoying learning how speed cameras work.  You never know when this may be useful.

Thanks all,

David

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 Val said Its less stressfull to pay up the 90€ within the 15 days than the full 345€ after that than worry about standing in a dock somewhere a long way away and trying to argue against the mighty french system

 

Mmmm... you must have been really hitting the floor to get that level of fine, that is for + 20KPH in a 50 or up to + 50kph on other limits, the points obviously go up with the speed and you can have your license suspended for three years immediately at the higher end of the contraventions.  However, Val,  your fines are out of date, the lower fine is now 68€ (45€ if paid within 15 days) and 375€ (135€).

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Ford A, I am confused about your tax/fine problem.

A tax is something that everyone pays, or should do?

A fine is what you get if you break the law!

Why the confusion? [:D] OK the OP was worried about being flashed when he/she was not breaking the law, but it seems that this was not the case thankfully. I can't see the problem, if you are not prepared to do the time then don't commit the crime.[Www]

I parked, a while back, along side the Canal du Midi at Trebes. It was in a place that I had parked dozens of times before for a good few months. The council had put up new signs saying no parking on that side and because of habit I didn't see the sign. I got a 35€ ticket after walking our dog. I moaned like hell. The sign was a day old, but I payed the fine and one day I will get the sod who gave it, no sorry, getting carried away there! There could have been a warning, but???

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]

 Val said Its less stressfull to pay up the 90€ within the 15 days than the full 345€ after that than worry about standing in a dock somewhere a long way away and trying to argue against the mighty french system

 

Mmmm... you must have been really hitting the floor to get that level of fine, that is for + 20KPH in a 50 or up to + 50kph on other limits, the points obviously go up with the speed and you can have your license suspended for three years immediately at the higher end of the contraventions.  However, Val,  your fines are out of date, the lower fine is now 68€ (45€ if paid within 15 days) and 375€ (135€).

[/quote]

MOH received her 'avis de contravention au code de la route' yesterday, she was caught doing 58km/h in a 50 km/h limit last Monday

Montant de I'amende forfaitaire :                     135 €

Si vous payez dans les 15 jours                     90

Si vous ne payez pas dans les 45 jours suivant la date d'envoi de I'avis de contravention                 375 €

Perte de point(s) du permit de conduire                         Oui          (it doesn't say how many points )

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Apologies for confusion Paul,  you are correct. 135€ is the fine for a 50Kph zone contravention as contraventions in a 50 kph zone are treated more seriously.  The 90€ fine is for less than + 20kph over in other speed limited areas and is 180€ if not paid within 45 days.

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Just stated what OH had to pay last september when caught 12kms over the 50kmp limit. It was 90€ upto 15 days and then 345€ after that and even more after so many months. He also got one point on his licence removable after three years if he dosn't get caught again.
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[quote user="Jonzjob"]

Ford A, I am confused about your tax/fine problem.

[/quote]

IN NO WAY DO THE SENTIMENTS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST CONDONE SPEEDING.

Me too. I COULD call them fines if I wasn't certain that MOST cameras are there to raise revenue. There are various reasons for my stance on this, but I'm not going to repeat them all again on here, I've done it to death before.

I KNOW it's against the law to speed. I also know that in the UK, speeders are pursued to the very ends of the earth for their "fines", whereas other offences....... "well, hey, we can't find out who was driving, so let's drop it".[:(]

And FREQUENTLY in our local rag, "Before the courts":

Case one: a man found guilty of two counts of burglary, two counts of failing to answer to bail, and not acting in accordance with a previous sentence. Result: Probation.

Case two: a man found guilty of speeding who had pleaded NOT guilty. Fined £300, with £150 costs against him AND three points on his license, (so THREE punishemts there, then). And no, he wasn't doing a silly speed. 46 in a 40mph limit.

In one of the above, no-one was hurt. In the other, people lost their property, and a convicted criminal put two fingers up at the system. But which one got the harshest sentence?

I know the above is the UK, but I've witnessed French police artificially lowering a limit on a motorway, then fining people who didn't obey their lower limit. If that's not theft, I don't know what is.

So.....speeding "fines" as a form of revenue (tax)? As far as I'm concerned, yep.

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Isn't this topic about speed cameras in France?

Yes FA for once I agree with you, some, but not all,  cameras in the UK are revenue earners due to their positioning on roads where additional speed is usual and possible, like on urban dual carriageways carrying a 30 or 40mph limit, but at the end of the day even you cannot argue that if you exceed the laid down speed limit it is crime and you are fined for it not taxed.

Getting back to the topic, in France those cameras I have seen have some reason to be there, eg on the bends on the A75 at Issoire which are tricky at 90 let alone 110/130 , the long straight through the village just outside Rodez, I forget the name where there are a couple of  blind junctions and on some  long sections of straight road in Brittany where it is possible to do +100 but the limit is 90kph, personally I cannot see any prroblem with any of those..

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[quote user="Ford Anglia"]

....I've witnessed French police artificially lowering a limit on a motorway, then fining people who didn't obey their lower limit. If that's not theft, I don't know what is.

[/quote]

Sorry FA, but simple common logic dictates that if the reduced speed limit was in force, then anyone exceeding it would be liable to a fine. 

I'm struggling to understand how you can possibly interpret this as theft......[8-)]

 

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[quote user="Ford Anglia"]

Case one: a man found guilty of two counts of burglary, two counts of failing to answer to bail, and not acting in accordance with a previous sentence. Result: Probation.

Case two: a man found guilty of speeding who had pleaded NOT guilty. Fined £300, with £150 costs against him AND three points on his license, (so THREE punishemts there, then). And no, he wasn't doing a silly speed. 46 in a 40mph limit.

In one of the above, no-one was hurt. In the other, people lost their property, and a convicted criminal put two fingers up at the system. But which one got the harshest sentence?

[/quote]

But which one had the potential to cause the most hurt - not sentimental but physical hurt? The person committing burgulary or the person colliding with a pedestrian at 46 mph? For me it would be the motorist.

Also is there any difference between case one and case two - they are both breaking the law. However, some motorists seem to be selective in what they think applies to them.

Speed and you stand the potential of being fined. And is the police attitude merely to take money off of motorists? Many years back a cousin and his brother-in-law were killed when their car (a sports car) crashed into the barrier on a flyover and they were thrown out onto the road below - a mix of speed and alcohol. I volunteered to liaise etc with the police. The inspector seemed genuinely affected and commented 'why do the insurance companies insure young people for these type of cars'. But there again according to FA no one gets hurt from speeding.

Paul

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Speeding the emotive subject!!!

As far as I am aware most of the speed limits on UK roads were set up using criteria based on cars/tyres/road surfaces of the 50's. Since then technology has moved on a lot. Why or why then can we not increase the motorway speed limit? Why can we not have flexible higher limits during the quiet of night on the motorways?

I am totally and utterly behind the 30/40 MPH zones around urban areas however the 'deliberate traps that are set on certain roads were the limit drops normally from 60 down to 40 then back up again really infuriate me, sorry may no be totally PC but it does.

An example of the speed cameras having the adverse effect. Port talbot South Wales the elevated section just above the town hall. 50 MPH speed cameras highly advertised in the press. By hurrahh from the anti speed lobby. However since their introduction there has been a 400% increase in road accients at that spot as people brake to avoid the fine and then cause a tailback. Any given evening at 16:30 to aout 19:00 tailback of several miles!!!!!!! How do I know, good friend of mine (when he is off duty) is a in the traffic gestapo sorry traffic Police, they cannot admit it officially but they want rid of these cameras.

Paul yes people get hurt from speeding wether through youthful exuberance, alcohol induced or just plain crazy. People also get killed through bad driving, bad lane discipline etc on motorways, using mobile phones whilst driving etc etc etc.

Speeding is against the law and causes death, however so do other factors on the road. However for the ordinary motorist speeding fines most of the time are seen as a revenue generating ploy. These same motorist (I include myself in this) have also been the victim of car theft, house theft and assault, where were the police then? Have those perputrators been caught? Are these subjects actually related? Technically not, but for me they are.

 

For the record I have no penalty points, good driving or just plain lucky, probably both.

Se below an e-mail I recieved a few weeks ago. Would the same work in France?

 

Interesting............

ust thought I would share this with you, as you know I work in the speeding fine department in *******'s Magistrate's Court and in the course of my investigation into "fines, their payment methods, and how points are automatically added against drivers licences" we discovered something very interesting "If You Get a Speeding Fine."

This has been tried and it works; I tried to send this to everyone I know.
I know that for a fact is works so if you ever get in this situation, you have an out. We discovered that this procedure works nationwide. Read it and try it, you have nothing to lose but the points on your license.

This is how it works:

If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light or whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your licence, then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. When you get your fine, send in the cheque to pay for it and if the fine is say, £40, then make the cheque out for £41 or some small amount over the fine. The system will then have to send you back a cheque for the difference, but here is the trick!

**DO NOT CASH THE REFUND CHEQUE!!!** Throw it away!!

Points are not assessed to your licence until all financialtransactions are complete. If you do not cash the cheque, then the transactions are NOT complete.

However, the system has gotten its money and is happy and will not bother you any more.


 

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