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Citroen/Peugeuot 2HDI owners


Jonzjob
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Have you had anything like this. I did and so far it is NOT cheap!

"I have had a problem with my Citroen C8.
A warning appeared on the screen in the car that told me that the diesel filter needed cleaning. There is nothing in the handbook as to what this means or how to do the operation requested. I phoned a friend in a Citroen concessionaire in England who told me that the car needed to be taken onto the autoroute and run at the maximum legal speed limit of 130 kph for about 15 minutes to burn the deposit off of the particulate filter. I did this, but afterwards the warning returned. He had also told me that if the autoroute run did not work then to run the engine at about 3000 rpm for 10 minutes. He also said that if either if these things did not work then I would have to take it to my Citroen concessionaire here in Carcassonne and they would put it on their computer and fix the problem.

The autoroute run did not work, nor did running the engine at 3000 rpm. I tried to clear the problem with a second run on the autoroute, but soon after we had reached 130 Kph a warning light appeared indicating that there was a problem with the engine management system and the engine limit was reduced to about 3,000 rpm. So I took it to the Citroen concessionaire straight away. They put it on the computer, but could not clear the problem, so I was asked to return at an arranged time.

On return they tried to resolve the problem including using a product to clean the filter. Nothing worked so they decided that the catalytic converter would have to be changed. They then had another problem with the particulate filter. All of this started on Monday 2nd April and was only resolved today Thursday 5th April.

When I went in to collect the car I had to pay a bill of 2190,40 because of all of the work and parts needed. The service manager is not sure what has caused this problem and is baffled why it could possibly happen on a car that has done such a low number of kilometres.

My car has been serviced by Citroen since new. It has not been miss-used and I cannot see why such a situation has arisen?

As can be seen by the details for my car. It is less than 3 years old. It has 35,200 Km on the clock. It has been serviced only by Citroen."

This was the detail filled in on the Citroen web site incidence part. The only thing that I seemed to have done wrong was not to have done any really long Autoroute journies? Oh yes, I had also bought most of my fuel from the same Intermarché service station. One of my good French friends told me that it was part of the problem and the French buy from various places because the quality of the gazoil is not to be trusted from any one place???

Anyone else ever heard of this before??? Answers on a 50€ note, I could use as many as I can get, answers that is [Www]!

From what I can make out this situation must exist with any car that has the 2 litre HDI, or the 2.2 come to that???

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The Peugeot 307 and 408 and their badge engineered Citroen cousins have had a very poor reputation for reliability versus the cars which preceded them. Main problem seems to have been a move to structured wiring from a conventional loom. Given the filter warning light was on why did they not change the filter, a presumably fairly cheap part before they start changing the catalytic convertor a pretty expensive part ? If I was going to keep the car I would ask for the other cat back so I could at least refit it when the new one fails.

Touching wood very hard but my 306 HDI has 290000 kilometres up and apart from the exhaust and cat two years ago has only had routine serving and replacement parts. 

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I would try contacting Citroen themselves, and ask the dealer for his input.

You never know, they MIGHT give you something towards it.

Edutted to say: we are on our second Xantia, the 2.0 HDi, and I would not have another Citroen if they were giving them away. Poorly built, expensive to repair and maintain, junk[:@]

 

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[quote user="Anton Redman"]

The Peugeot 307 and 408 and their badge engineered Citroen cousins have had a very poor reputation for reliability versus the cars which preceded them. Main problem seems to have been a move to structured wiring from a conventional loom. Given the filter warning light was on why did they not change the filter, a presumably fairly cheap part before they start changing the catalytic convertor a pretty expensive part ? If I was going to keep the car I would ask for the other cat back so I could at least refit it when the new one fails.

Touching wood very hard but my 306 HDI has 290000 kilometres up and apart from the exhaust and cat two years ago has only had routine serving and replacement parts. 

[/quote]

By the sound of it Anton, you don't suffer from the 'short journey's' syndrome!!!

The filter warning is for the particulate filter in the cat. So when it gave up the ghost that was as they say the cat up the spout. If I had wanted the cat then all I would have to do was give them another 1000€. Apparently that is the same whatever car, Frog,  Jap, Kraut, Yank, you have... If the garage wanted to keep it they would have the same bill because they are sent back to the factory so that they can refurb and resell them. Neat eh? The Citroen garage did their best to try the cheaper options before havint to change the 'need a mortgage' bit. The service manager could not have been more helpful or appologetic!

That little extract above has gone past the garage. It will be in the post tomorrow morning to the service centre in Paris and a copy to the MD. After all they have not replied to any of the e-mails, appart from giving me an incident number, or to the first letter I sent to the service dept. So MD here I go!!![:@]

Before this I had a Diane, wonderful machine, for 2 years at 20,000 miles a year. Then a BX TZD estate for 11 years, same milage/year, another wonderful machine and then a Xantia for 3 years. that was the best of the 3 for me. Nothing but good reliability frm the lot. The C8 has been a good car too, but why the hell doesn't someone tell you not to buy all your 'go-juice' from the same place in France (?) or that you need to belt the balls off it every now and then. That's not in the hand book believe me!

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Maybe you should consider using a diesel additive such as Millers diesel power sport 4 or similar. It might cost you 70 cents per tank of fuel but, its cheaper in the long run.

I have long been a fan of diesel engined vehicles for their robustness and good fuel economy however, I'm not sure if I would buy a new one now because the cost of repairs on the 'not so reliable' modern engines.

I did buy a Citroen C3 diesel a couple of years back and it failed to start after 6 weeks. It ended up being alot of hassle as even though the dealer failed to repair it within a month they did manage to dent nearly every panel on the car and when I eventually got it back it had a major diesel leak from one of the injectors.

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You will hear many horror stories about a particular make of car and there will always be someone else who comes along and says the same. What you won't hear, however, are the stories from the thousands of people who own the same car and have never had a problem.

I also bought a C3 when they first came out and ran it fo 52,000 miles without incident. I then sold it to a friend who has now clocked up a total of 90,000 + miles and the little diesel soldiers on.

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Funny you should mention that Bob, but the guy who bought my BX that had not missed a beat in the 150,000 miles I put on it from new managed to blow the head gasget within 3 weeks of buying it from me. He managed a lot of other damage too because the bill he was presented with for the repair was £1100. The car was in as near perfect nick as it could be when it left me. Apparently he has grossly overfilled it with oil and it had hydraulicked it's way up and really screwed the engine. I am not feather footed, but this bloke must have been a deeeeeep sea diver with his lead boots still on!!!

The car was scrapped with not a touch of rust, a dent or anything else wrong. Domage!

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[quote user="Bob T"]You will hear many horror stories about a particular make of car and there will always be someone else who comes along and says the same. What you won't hear, however, are the stories from the thousands of people who own the same car and have never had a problem.

I also bought a C3 when they first came out and ran it fo 52,000 miles without incident. I then sold it to a friend who has now clocked up a total of 90,000 + miles and the little diesel soldiers on.

[/quote]

I'm not actually unhappy with Citroen, Just with the UK dealerships that tend to be near to useless. How it took longer than a month to diagnose a failed fuel pump is a mystery seeing as that was what the recovery firm had written down for them.

I have another Citroen which I bought new and its never been back to a Citroen dealer here in the UK. It's also never missed a beat in 18,000 miles!

Having spoken to a diesel fuel system specialist it became apparent that the new higher pressure diesel injection systems tend to cost lots more to fix and have a higher failure rate than the older type fuel system with mechanical pump/distributor.

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[quote user="Jonzjob"]

 When I went in to collect the car I had to pay a bill of 2190,40 because of all of the work and parts needed. The service manager is not sure what has caused this problem and is baffled why it could possibly happen on a car that has done such a low number of kilometres.

My car has been serviced by Citroen since new. It has not been miss-used and I cannot see why such a situation has arisen?

As can be seen by the details for my car. It is less than 3 years old. It has 35,200 Km on the clock. It has been serviced only by Citroen."

[/quote]

I have a C4 2.0HDI, currently just under 2 years old. (Goes like the proverbial wotsit off the shovel!)

When I left Norwich for France in early June, a warning light came on shortly after leaving home (very early in the morning) and checking the book, I learned it was indicating a problem with the depolution system. I decided to keep heading for Newhaven and when the time reached 8.00am and I knew there was somebody at the Norwich Citroen dealers, I rang them. Although they were confident it was OK to keep going, they were unable to specify exactly what was wrong over the phone.

The following day, I took it to the Citroen dealer at Loches, Indre et Loire. The service manager, M. Petit, was superb right from the start. He had somebody check it and assure me I could carry on driving, He booked it in for a thorough inspection the following day and the fault was quickly diagnosed as a need for a replacement electrical component. This was ordered and the job was completed three days later.

Now, my Citroen garage in Norwich had warned me that a French garage may ask me to pay and I could reclaim the charges back in the UK as the car was still within the three year warranty. But M. Petit would hear known of this, saying he would claim the money back from Citroen UK on my behalf. I left the garage thoroughly pleased with the service and the way I was treated.

Surely, Jonzjob, as your car is under three years old, you can reclaim your money from Citroen?

Mel        

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Hdi engines can cause awful problems.  I prefere to buy older technology for my own transport.  I have a transit with the older duratorq diesel engine not the hdi version.  My previous diesel was a sharan 1.9 which did 185k with only a glowplug change and no problems.  The diesel you put into the tank has a lot to do with the problems as has been mentioned.  In the UK I prefere to buy from a shell garage rather than a supermarket.  Here in france I buy from a variety of supermarkets.  I use an additive quite regularily.  My philosophy is don't buy the latest technology.  If you really want quality buy japaneses, toyotas are about as good a make as you can get.
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Mel I take it that your car is RHD and bought in England? If so it comes, as you know, with a 3 year warranty. Ours is a left hooker which we bought new in Holland before we left. It has the European warranty and would you believe that it's for 2 years!!!

Reasons for buying in Holland? 1. Not possible to buy new from a Citroen dealer in England. 2. Not possible to buy a car in  France without a French address. 3. 2nd hand left hookers in England are stupid money for basic rubbish, what we saw were anyway. 4. Not interested in bringing a RHD car and trying to get rid of it here or going back to England to sell it after getting a left hooker here.

So we were left with the option of buying from Holland, which we did.

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John,

Thanks - that is interesting. Yes, mine is RHD from the UK and it is interesting you mention just a two year warranty in Europe. That probably explains why the documentation with my car refers to two + one year's warranty. I asked the dealer what changes in the third year and he assured me, as far as the customer is concerned, nothing. He has also told me that if I have any problems in France during the third year, he will always reclaim the money for me in the UK.

It is possible to buy a new LHD Citroen in England and they will take a RHD car in part exchange.

Off the top of my head, I cannot tell you the name of the Citroen garage that does it - but it is done by them on behalf of Citroen UK for all the country's Citroen garages. My local garage told me about it and offered to put me in touch if and when necessary.

Mel

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The idea of being able to buy LHD may well be a new thing in the last 3 years. We tried through our dealer, a dealer that I knew most of the staff by their first name, and were told that they were not allowed to sell them.. That would have made it a lot easier, but I would have missed my day trip to Holland, plane, train, boat and car!!
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Having just read your post I noticed this and thought that it may be of some interest, it comes from the 'Help' section of the Car Mechanic magazine. The writer does not say which engine, ie 2.0 or 2.2 but it is diesel and I would have thought that the peripheral dangly bits would be the same.

He says that he bought a three-year-old Pug 807 with 123k miles on the clock and among other things has the engine management light coming on with a display reading 'Antipollution Fault'.

Car Mechanics say:

"..........as you may be aware, there are regulations restricting the emissions from vehicle exhausts, and over the next few years, these restrictions are going to be even more strict, especially regarding the particles (particulates) being emitted by diesel engines.

Under present technology, the most effective way of removing these particles is by use of a filter. But this in itself creates a problem in that eventually the filter needs to be cleaned or replaced. Citron/Peugeot (PSA) have developed a comprehensive filter cleaning, or as they put it, regeneration system.

On the vehicle this involves heating the exhaust gasses up to around 450-500 degrees centegrade as they enter the filter, so as one of the hottest parts of the exhaust system is the catalytic converter, the logical place to put the filter is at the back end of this component. However, even there it will not be hot enough, so an additive (Eolys Fluid) is used to increase the tempretature. This built in and electronically controlled additive system injects a proportionate quantity of Eolys Fluid every time the fuel tank is topped up. This regeneration process takes place every 300 miles or so, is automatic and takes two to three minutes.

The filter stays effective throught the life of the vehicle. Cleaning by water under pressure should be carried out every 80,000 km at dealerships to dispose of any remaining deposites. At the same time the Eloys Fluid will also be topped up......." They go on to diagnose the readers problems.

One question that does spring to mind, they say that the system '....injects a proportionate quantity of fluid every time the tanks is topped up....' so if you are in the habit of chucking twenty quid in at a time, does it add a dash of dollop or wait for the full monty? 

Anyway, even though I own my own scewdriver and hammer, I'm no expert but it does sound to me that, with regular (and correct) servicing, these parts should not have required replacing.       

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I can only agree with you RR, they should not have needed replacing. I now wait to see if I get a reply to my letter from the MD of Citroen France and his customer service manager. The first letter to the service bloke didn't even get an acknowledment! So the MD got one too.

Have a look at the particulate filter explanation on this site http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/psa_group/technological_files_b3.php . It's very interesting... Explanation in simple (bit like me?) words!! If my car is fitted with this kit then the idea of belting up and down the autoroute should be a load of old 'pony & trap'! It should be automatic!!!

I've never heard of this Eolys Fluid before this.. Thank you RR.

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