Sat Nav so frustrating......!!!

[Bugsy]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Bugbear"]Don't forget the moss on the trees Sweet 17...................................[kiss][:)][/quote]

Bugsy, I don't rely on the moss on trees, but on my wristwatch as long as the sun is out.  Now, you work that one out, OK?

[/quote]

But you're still relying on technology, ...............[Www]

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="dave21478"]

How does that go again? hold it flat and point the hour hand towards the sun, then half-way between the hour hand and 12 oclock is north? Something along those lines Im sure.

 

 

[/quote]

Or would that be south?  And do I add or subtract one (or is it two) hours for GMT?

Damn, I knew there was a reason not to buy that digital watch!

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="ErnieY"]I don't think this phenomena is exclusive to Garmin and as Bob says, it is not an excuse to throw common sense out of the window. Witness the depressingly regular stories in the news about drivers suspending their's resulting in juggernauts getting stuck down narrow country lanes or coach drivers ending up in Lille Belgium instead of Lille France.

I think the main problem is that whoever compiled the maps cannot possibly have travelled each and every road so what might look like a reasonable or shorter route on paper might, in reality, be anything but. Maps unfortunately make no allowances for places which the human brain will instinctively tell you to avoid like the plague, big cities in the morning rush hour for instance. Is there any SatNav which, when requesting a route from say Limoges to Calais, will NOT automatically take you through Paris? At 02:00 in the morning it can be an excellent choice but at 09:00 on a weekday, no way Jose [:-))]

I have a Garmin Nuvi 360 and although there is an option for 'Shortest' or 'Fastest' route frankly for the most part it seems to make very little odds. If I'm on 'Fastest' route and on a motorway and it 'sees' a corner it can cut by taking an A or B road which it is decides is faster simply because it is shorter then it will try to take me that way. A little basic preparation though will usually tell me that it is not the way I want to go plus the map view on the screen will show me what it is trying to do and I can make a judgement based on those factors. There is also a 'facility' to tell it what type of vehicle you are, ranging from motorcycle to Bus. You'd be forgiven for imagining that telling it you are a bus might prompt it to conclude that a 2m wide twisty mountain lane is perhaps not the ideal route to be taking but no, the only thing it actually does is put a graphic of a bus on the screen, very useful - NOT [:'(]

Locally in France it often has great difficulty in discriminating between small tarmac roads and graded tracks and I have often found myself a couple of km up a road only to find it turn into a track, sometimes barely navigable in a private car, but to be fair, in terms of getting to my destination, track or not, it will always get me where I'm going - eventually [blink]

My biggest gripe with my Garmin, as I've recently mentioned in another thread, is the lack of waypoints (only 1 [:(]) and for that reason alone I am considering switching to TomTom as I have been pointed to a neat little programme - HERE - which allows you to plan a route on Google maps and then transfer it to the TomTom, you can even share your routes with other TomTom users. The term for this sort of thing which makes a particular item or piece of software a must have is 'killer app' and for me personally this is one [geek]

[/quote]

Glad you like the little programme Earnie, great init!!! We use it when we go out anywhere that we ain't bin before and I print off the map of the route to boot. Then if owt goes pear shaped we have the braces to support the belt. Oh yes, and if I haven't got the map to suite then it is VERY unusual. I too love maps and I collect them. I love to pour over them too because they give so very much information about the area you are going t look at. Maps to me are a book in their own right.

Another programme to look at both to see the satalite photos and the IGN maps is www.geoportial.fr . When you have the programme up and running in front of you there is a window on the left that gives all sorts of options. The one that I think should be the norm is the very top one that says "Cartes". Click on this box and you will get another box below it for "Cart IGN", click on that and you will have an additional slider appear just below that enables you to change the sat image to the IGN map of the area. And that is on any scale that you wish by zooming in and out. You can also drap the map/sat picture any which way. You can't use it with your GPS though, of any make as far as I know! Domage!!!

But it is a lovely and very interesting site [:D]...

With all the attributes of TomTom I still would not go walking without my Garmin Etrex Vista. A lovely little machine! Tells you how high you are too

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee, were's me beer!

[mint]

[quote user="dave21478"]

How does that go again? hold it flat and point the hour hand towards the sun, then half-way between the hour hand and 12 oclock is north? Something along those lines Im sure.

 

 

[/quote]

But, of course, it's different in the southern hemisphere.  Now someone work that one out!

[AnOther]

JJ:

I know Geoportail and have recommended it many times here.

[Sunday Driver]

Navigating in France is a piece of cake and I just do what all non-GPS owners have done for many years.

My trusty Michelin Tourist and Motoring Atlas helps me identify the primary route destinations on my way, then I just follow the big green road signs which take me on the optimum route with no intervention of illogical computer suggested 'short cuts'.  When I'm near my destination, the local signs tell me where to go.

When I get there, I switch on my cheapo 99€ GPS to take me to the street I'm looking for........[:)]

 

[dave21478]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Yep !

Hand on heart now did you know that or look it up [Www]

[/quote]

 

No, I honestly knew that.

I used to very much into Hillwalking in Scotland when I was younger, and did several courses on mountain navigation, which I still remember to this day. This tip with the watch was covered briefly once.

Im a little confused now though, as I cant quite remember if half way between 12 and the hour hand points north or south. That link you posted says south, but its an Australian website. [8-)]

[dave21478]

Yeah, its South, not north.

http://www.onebag.com/popups/wcompass.html

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="dave21478"]

Yeah, its South, not north.

http://www.onebag.com/popups/wcompass.html

[/quote]

South in the N hemisphere but north if down under as Sweet said.

[Quillan]

I installed GPS on a Pocket PC and used it quite a lot with reasonable success although connecting it to the car and cradle was a pain with loads of cables and stuff. At the beginning of this year I bought a TomTom 920 which I have to say I am very happy with. It uses GPS signals and built in Inertia Navigation so loosing a GPS signal is no problem. Very handy round here what with all the gorges and mountains.

The key to GPS systems software and quality of maps and the ability to update them for zero or minimal cost. TomTom use a free system called Map Share which downloads the latest updates every time you dock it with your PC and at the end of the year these get rolled up in to a new map which of course you then have to buy. The system also downloads new or amended operating software for the device. The latest version allows you to use the TomTom for hands free phones if you have a Blue-tooth phone. It also knows the various speed limits and warns you if you are going to fast although you can switch that function off if you wish (I leave mine on by the way). A handy thing if you have the phone connected is to send your position to another TomTom user, could be handy if you break down in the back and beyond. I also like the safety/help features like take me to the nearest hospital. No looking up as a POI just one button to press.

TomTom recently bought Navteq (they are one of only two companies that supply maps) and yes there are some errors. On my first test I used it on a known route and was surprised that it had a new roundabout (construction only finished 6 weeks before I got my TomTom) already in the map yet a dual carriageway bypass that had been finished for about a year was missing. In Spain it took us down an unmade road for about 200M which was not pleasant but cut a big chunk off the route I would have taken to get out of the particular city and probably saved us 20 minutes.

I used mine for a touring trip through central Spain and I have to say it took us to the door of every hotel we had booked including the one in the centre of Madrid. Try dodging the traffic in Madrid whilst reading a map. We had paper maps with us but I can honestly say we never used them once.

These things are getting better and cheaper, I like mine and use it a lot, to each his own as they say.

[Madeira Jon]

I used TomTom to navigate down from Durham UK to Le Bugue; Mrs TomTom took me through Paris in the middle of a Sunday afternoon and all the way to my destination with no problems at all. However once in UK she did try to kill me by sending me down a cart track into lake Windermere! Fortunately I knew that route, refused her advice and she calmed down and gave me better instructions.

[sueyh]

We recently purchased a 2008 garmin update for our 310 nuvi.  It totally wiped out our mapping of the uk. Has anyone else had this problem.  Did not buy it from Garmin - we are now worried that it is a duff copy!!!

Suey

[Baz]

[quote user="sueyh"]

We recently purchased a 2008 garmin update for our 310 nuvi.  It totally wiped out our mapping of the uk. Has anyone else had this problem.  Did not buy it from Garmin - we are now worried that it is a duff copy!!!

Suey

[/quote]

Garmin have free telephone support in both the UK and France, just ring their free telephone number and you will find them very helpful.

Baz

[mint]

Phil & Pat wrote

"Or would that be south?  And do I add or subtract one (or is it two) hours for GMT?

Damn, I knew there was a reason not to buy that digital watch!"

A digital watch should not be an obstacle, as long as it is telling the right time.  What you do is, you draw a face of a clock, put the hands in the position of the time as shown on your digital watch and then use your drawing to estimate your north-south position.

Simple really if you have a pen, paper as well as your digital watch![:D]

[cricri]

Sat Navs are not the be all and end all to not getting lost ever again. Thay are fool proof, not idiot proof (joke, don't take offence anyone). The trick i found is to always have an idea as to where you are going. As yes, mine still trys to give me the run around

[AnOther]

[quote user="cricri"]The trick i found is to always have an idea as to where you are going[/quote]I wholeheartedly agree, when embarking on a journey it's mostly a pretty good plan to have a destination in mind [Www]

[Quillan]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="cricri"]The trick i found is to always have an idea as to where you are going[/quote]I wholeheartedly agree, when embarking on a journey it's mostly a pretty good plan to have a destination in mind [Www]

[/quote]

Sound logical Ernie but not always the case. One thing we use ours for is to go out for a drive and just toddle around with no idea where we are going until we stumble upon somewhere nice. When we are fed up we turn the TomTom on and press the Home button which inevitable takes us back a completely different route which makes it more interesting. Basically it takes the need to remember your route when out exploring. Plus if you like the place you can save it for another time.

[Mikew]

The art of using a sat-nav is knowing when to ignore it!

[Jonzjob]

If we want the best of both worlds, i.e to wander and then find our way home we take both the Garmin Etrex Vista and the TomTom. The Etrex saves the route which I can dump on to the PC and the TomTom is able to route and reroute, which the Etrex can't, on the way home!![8-|][8-|]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Mikew"]The art of using a sat-nav is knowing when to ignore it!

[/quote]

Indeed. It took us down a buses only road in Paris once. Past some policemen too.

That's when it finally started working in Paris, as most of the time it receives no signal (the time you need the thing the most too!) You'd think they would be able to put some sat nav amplifiers in the worst reception areas.

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"][quote user="Mikew"]The art of using a sat-nav is knowing when to ignore it!

[/quote]

... You'd think they would be able to put some sat nav amplifiers in the worst reception areas.

[/quote]

Sorry L&R, GPS does not work like that!

[Quillan]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"][quote user="Mikew"]The art of using a sat-nav is knowing when to ignore it!

[/quote]

Indeed. It took us down a buses only road in Paris once. Past some policemen too.

That's when it finally started working in Paris, as most of the time it receives no signal (the time you need the thing the most too!) You'd think they would be able to put some sat nav amplifiers in the worst reception areas.

[/quote]

You need to try an inbuilt navigation system like Becker, Pioneer etc which do not rely on just GPS. Underground carparks, tunnels, gorges, cities with high rise ofices, no problem and accurate to within less than half a metre. But it comes with a price.

[Kevinmc]

So if they don't rely on GPS, how do they know where they are when you switch on ?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Kevinmc"]So if they don't rely on GPS, how do they know where they are when you switch on ?[/quote]

Memory.

Basically they have inertia sensors which in most cases are mounted up inside the roof of your car and used to be about the size of a packet of fags. Inside are two accelerometers siting on a small gyro table (the gyro is not too dissimilar to the minature ones used in model helicopters) so even when traveling up hill they are quite accurate. They also have a sensor on the drive shaft or if its a front wheel drive car on both. When the car is delivered it comes with a set of instructions on setting up which requires that you have a GPS signal and carry out certain maneuvers like left and right turns etc. In most cases the dealer does this for you although on my Mondeo and Discovery I reset it and did it again just for peace of mind.

These systems are much better for driving in cities because of their accuracy and ability to function without a GPS signal. The best way to describe it is that after the initial warnings about a right turn ahead when it says turn now you are exactly at the turning, like within 50 cm. If you gave used a TomTom, Garmin etc you will understand what I mean by being good as these devices can often be out by as much as 10M and with two roads almost side by side on say a roundabout or along a street you can easily make the wrong turn.

Most of them have the maps stored on a DVD so they have a lot more detail and tend to be more clever. Like the one in my Disco would put you in the right line for the next departure when crossing the Chanel via the tunnel.

Now stand alone GPS systems are available with inertia nav built in, the TomTom 920 for example. Although expensive it can operate for some while without a GPS signal although the further you go (say 10 or 15 kilometres) the less accurate it becomes.

Hope that helps.

[WJT]

I have got the TomTom One XL, one of the cheaper ones and I love it. Driving through Paris was always stressful but since having the TomTom it is a breeze and in fact took us a way we never knew about and was very quick and easy. I came through Paris on my own last week and was able to relax and enjoy the scenery and listen to the radio instead of panicking about taking a wrong turn, which I commonly did.

I have yet to have it take me the wrong way, knock on wood.  I will be using it this afternoon to pick something up that I bought on Ebay, So fingers crossed.[:)]