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Changing driving licences - getting confused.


oakbri
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My wife wants to change her licence to a French one. I read up on the procedure on this forum and set off for the sous prefecture full of hope and determination.

A week later we are no nearer and beginning to dispair. We went to the sous prefecture armed with her licence, a utility bill, carte de sejour, passport, passport size photos, self addressed envelope plus photocopies of all the documents. The nice lady at the sous prefecture accepted all the documents and all was going well until she noticed the date on my wifes carte de sejour that showed she entered France over 12 months ago. At this point the lady said it was impossible as she had been driving illegally due to not changing her licence within the first SIX months and we would have to go to the Prefecture to receive our fine and change the licence there. My wifes driving licence is not a UK licence but it is an EU member state licence and according to the government website she has the same rights as myself. Anyway during the commotion the lady noticed my British licence which was in the same wallet, she then tried to force an application form into my hand, I politely explained that I didn't intend to change my licence, at which point she went almost apoplectic.

We left and decided to try another sous prefecture in our department. We went there a couple of days later. The lady there saw the form the first one gave us and said it was wrong. She gave us a completely different form and said we must fill it in and send everything off to the main prefecture.

I went home and checked on the services-public.fr website. The form you can download there is the one we received at the first office. Also depending upon which form you read some say you must post the original driving licence plus a photocopy, the other just asks for a photocopy.

As we can't seem to find anyone in the Sous prefectures who know their job can someone tell me which form we need to send, also do we have to send the original licence and if so is my wife OK to drive using just a photocopy of her own licence until the wheels of French bureaucracy grind into action and produce her new licence.

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I always advocate going direct to the Prefecture, it's not to say that all problems will magically disappear but at least you are in the best place to get them sorted plus you are not committing your precious documents to the vagaries of La Poste or some nameless face at a sous prefecture [blink]

Personally, whether exchanging a licence or not, I also advise people to get a certificate of entitlement from the DVLA, it cost's £5 but it is an invaluable piece of paper to have for the day your licence gets lost/stolen/destroyed or whatever. Remember, if you are not in possession of or can produce your UK licence then you cannot legally drive in France. The certificate is acceptable at the Prefecture for the issuance of a French licence.

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Many thanks Ernie

I was considering going to the Prefecture for that very reason.

My wife renewed her licence in Latvia a couple of years ago, she walked in, filled in the form and walked out with a new licence 5 minutes later. I don't think the French work at quite the same efficiency as in Latvia. I don't know if Latvia issue any kind of certfifcate, would a photocopy of her licence be acceptable in the mean time. Also how long does it take to get the licence.

Once again many thanks

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It seems to depend on where you live. We must be lucky here, as you can go into the office when it opens, hand in your documents, take a seat and 30 mins later you are given your new licence. I've heard of people in other Depts. having to leave documents behind and the new licence is posted back in anything up to 2 weeks.
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Personally I'd be very reluctant to drive around on a photocopy of any licence be it UK or otherwise. Knowing how ill informed some flics are even when it comes to common UK licences I shudder to think what their reaction might be to a photocopied Latvian one [:-))]

When you apply at the Prefecture they will issue you with a temporary document on the spot and the proper licence follows in the post quite quickly I believe.

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Ernie / Patf

Many thanks for your replies. My confidence is restored, 30 minutes for a new licence is fantastic. Failing that a certfifcate from the Prefecture should keep the feds happy.

I know what you mean regarding how ill informed the good old Gendarmes can be, a quick scan of the forums regarding their interpretation of the Stop sign law shows that. I am still nervous when I come to a stop sign as I never know whether to wait for 3 seconds, 6 seconds, remove my foot from the brake and apply the handbrake etc etc etc etc.

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We have now lived here pemanently for nearly two years, and have found the forums, this and others!! very helpful - sometimes. However if there is one thing I have learned is that every Department is different and have different ways of doing things. The change of druving licence is a prime example - being Diabetic my UK licence was only for 3 years and would have expired last August. In January I got nabbed for speeding and therefore had to change to a 'Permis de Conduire.' My wife decided to change hers at the same time so we presented ourselves to the Prefecture in Aurillac together with every bit of paperwork we could find!! The very friendly lady there didn't really know what to do so 'lumped' us in with all the disqualified drivers and elderly and told us we had to get our EU style licences translated ! - visit to the 'Halle de Justice' for the address of the official translator ( name address date of birth!!) Had to visit Maire to get copies of documents 'stamped' and sent them off = came back with a bill for €32.Returned to the Prefecture with said 'transductions' Now decided that we also had to have medicals! Had to visit approved Doctor for this - no problems ( in my case I could understand this but my wife is perfectly healthy ), in fact the medical was a joke - breathe in feel if you are warm - OK! - cost €48. Returned to Prefecture and 4 weeks later the Permis came through.

There was no anti Brit element to this simply that they did not know what to do and as there are so few expats in this department in the same position fried uo fit us in to a part of the system they did understand.

I post this to reinforce to people that there is never a definitive answer to French Bureaucracy 

Also I will get my point back in January!!

Also my licence is now for life!!

 

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The requirements for exchanging licences are absolutely standard and are set out on every prefecture website.  There is no variation by department.

Your 'friendly lady' was clearly unaware of the correct procedure, so you should write to the prefect and complain about the unnecessary hoops you were put through and request  a refund of any uncalled for expense you may have incurred.

It's your right, so complain....

 

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Any complaints that I have are more concerned with the 'pickey, pedantic' people that post message on the various forums rather than accepting that we live in a foreign country and have to accept that things are different from the good old(!!) UK. Which is why I have not made posts before.

When I read about other peoples problems I realise that we are blessed living in this department and any difficulties are more to do with genuine misunderstandings not malice and do not feel inclined to make waves which could come back to haunt me in the future

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[quote user="Jonzjob"]Ernie, how does one go about getting a certificate of entitlement from the DVLA please? It sounds like a VERY good idea to me and up till now didn't realise that it existed???[/quote]I don't know of a web link but if I may make so bold as to quote SD from another place:

"However, in the case of a UK licenceholder, a loss or theft will be highly inconvenient because the DVLA won't issue a replacement to a foreign resident, nor will they permit the use of a UK 'accommodation' address.

The only option would be to apply for a French licence, but as you would no longer have a current licence to present to your prefecture, you would have to apply to the DVLA for a certificate of entitlement and until it arrives, you'd be prohibited from driving.

With this in mind, I have discussed the matter with the DVLA and they do recognise the potential problem and are prepared to issue an immediate 'contingency' certificate of entitlement to anyone living in France.

The certificate can be kept in a safe place and in the event of loss/theft of the UK licence, it can be immediately produced to the prefecture in lieu of the original UK licence. On receipt of a licence application, the prefecture will issue a récépisse allowing you to continue to drive pending delivery of the new French licence.

All you have to do is phone the DVLA - Monday to Friday 8.15am to 4.30pm.

If you make the DVLA operator aware that you are calling from abroad they will prioritise your call. They will charge you £5.00 for the certificate, payable by credit or debit card. If you would like the certificate faxed over as well as posted, then just ask them and they'll do it"
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  • 2 weeks later...

So the saga continues.

This morning we drove to the Prefecture, about 1 hours drive away. We went armed with everything I could think of, including print outs of the code de la route etc. We handed evrything over and once again were informed we had broken the law by not changing the licence within 1 year. I handed them Article R222-2 from the code de la route and also the print out from the services-public website that states it is not obligatory to change the licence.

At this point the woman behind the desk started looking through a list of countries in her little handwritten book, Latvia was not there, so she informed me that Latvia was not part of the EU. I showed her the EU flag on my wifes driving licence and also pointed to a government printed map on the wall beside her that showed all the EU countries and also listed them, which clearly showed Latvia as EU. However as it was not in her handwritten list she would not have it.

She then handed everything back to me except the application. She said she will "write to Latvia" (presumably to ask them to prove they are EU) and will write to us once she has an answer.

Luckily my wifes licence doesn't expire till the end of this month and she is going back to Latvia to see her parents for the New Year, so we have decided to give up on this impossible task. While she is in Latvia she will renew her Licence using her parents address.

My advice to anyone considering changing licences is to think carefully. I have wasyed more than a whole day and visited 2 sous prefectures and the main prefecture and spent hours talking to morons. I will NEVER change my licence here.

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You have to laugh though don't you, even if only to maintain your sanity [:D]

Is there only the one woman at the Prefecture, could you try your luck again with another. Do you even need to do it in your own department ?

If neither of those are viable then might it worth a visit to your local Mairie and asking them to either phone the dozy woman at Prefecture to set her straight or perhaps write a letter for you to take next time stating that Latvia IS part of the EU [blink]

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I know it isn't funny for those concerned, but recently took some clients to re-register their car.  Whilst at the impots getting the quittus fiscale there was another British chap who didn't speak much French in front of us.  Madame Des Impots asked him he had purchased car in Angleterre.  'No' he replied 'Wales'.     She then proceeded to tell him that the country otherwise known as Wolees (her pronunciation) did not exist and if it did it was not part of EU.  He - patriotic Welshman - insisted that it did.  She said she had never heard of it.  He got very angry, I creased up laughing and eventually volunteered that 'Wolees'  was 'Pays de Galles'.  Not impressed, and insisting that even if such a coutry did exist it was not on her list (of course not it said Royaume Uni)  she went off to get her boss.  Boss came back confirmed what I said and added that Pays de Galles was in Angleterre as everybody do know.[:D][:D]

Honour was eventually satisfied and disgruntled Welshman slunk off with his bit of paper.  I later saw him and his dossier being rejected by someone very disdainful at the Préfecture - afraid I hid behind the potted plants as I didn't want to be involved.

Don't know why I'm laughing anyway Dept 82 refused point blank to change my licence as it is an EU one.  Must have another go soon as it runs out in 2010.  A year should be long enough I think - great fun especially as the wretched Préfecture is 75 km away!

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OK, so now the thot plickens, or should that be the plot thickens? I have just been on the phone to the DVLA and after gawd knows how many press 2 for this and 4 for that I got to speak to a human person reference the 'Certificate of Entitelment'. I was told that I didn't need one until my licence was lost/stolen/destroyed/etc. If I were to have one now it would only last for 3 months and if I then lost my licience in June I would have to apply again as the cert that I had would have run out.

No problems in getting one of these bits of paper though because as long as one has a fax number, ours is via the PC, one can be issued and delivered in 2 hours flat! Even if it had to be posted it would take a max of 7 days...

Is this yet another case of right hand not having a clue what the left hand is doing? This bloke wot I spoke to seemed to know what I was asking and had no hesitation with his reply to me.

"If you make the DVLA operator aware that you are calling from abroad they will prioritise your call."

I tried to tell the computerised phone system that I was phoning from France Ernie, but it just wouldn't listen ? BUT when I saw that it is an 0870 phone number I had a look at http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php and it popped up with 01792.771462. So with our FT free U.K. number calling the call cost me nowt!

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As in crooks and nannies, mucking fuddles, and cunning stunts [:D]

'er indoors got hers without any hassle although the operator did mention that it was only supposed to be temporary whilst the licence exchange was in progress which, even if true, still makes it a useful piece of paper to have tucked in the bottom drawer IMO.

Experiences with DVLA et al only serve to confirm that French state employees have no monopoly on ignorance and obstructiveness.

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hi

when I was struggling to register my car two years ago, I found the dvla very understanding and flexible.  I faxed them from nz to say my registration in france had been delayed and my car was offroad in france without tax and mot.  I eventually exported it months later, when I had finally registered it.

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