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Driving Licence Exchange-Hope Connexion Have Got it Wrong!


AnOther
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It wouldn't be the first time Connexion got it wrong but the information allegedly comes from an authoritative source and a spokesman from the FFSA and actually makes perfect sense logically.

In summary the Connextion item says that if you are flashed and fined for speeding then you are supposed to voluntarily exchange your UK licence to allow for the deduction of points, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER YOU ARE TOLD TO BY THE GENDARMES OR NOT, and if you do not then it becomes invalid thereby also invalidating your insurance.

I quote from the article:

"A government road safety spokesman said that exchanging your licence is obligatory when you have committed an offence which would normally involve withdrawal of points.

It follows that if a driver refuses to to carry out such an exchange they are breaking the law with regard to their licence and the French regulations.

A spokesman for the FFSA - representing insurers - said insurance contracts are annulled if a person is known to have been driving on an invalid licence when an accident occurs"

This seems to me to be an absolutely crucial point which, if true, could leave thousands exposed to prosecution for driving without a valid licence and with no insurance.

Sunday Driver, we urgently need you on this one [:-))]

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Code de la Route Article R222-2:

"L'échange d'un tel permis de conduire contre le permis français est obligatoire

lorsque son titulaire a commis, sur le territoire français, une

infraction au présent code ayant entraîné une mesure de restriction, de

suspension, de retrait du droit de conduire ou de retrait de points.
Cet

échange doit être effectué selon les modalités définies par l'arrêté

prévu à l'alinéa précédent, aux fins d'appliquer les mesures précitées.

Le fait de ne pas effectuer l'échange de son permis de conduire

dans le cas prévu à l'alinéa précédent est puni de l'amende prévue pour

les contraventions de la quatrième classe."

Failure to exchange under the circumstances highlighted is punishable by a fine.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F1758.xhtml

Link to the Code Article on the right of the page.

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[quote user="AnOther"]So it's correct then and any who have had a flash and a fine/loss of a point or points are now driving without a valid licence or insurance ?

[/quote]

Of course it isn't.......[8-)]

Receiving a fine/loss of a point or points does not invalidate your licence or your insurance. 

Refusal to exchange after receiving a point or points does not invalidate your licence or your insurance.  It only attracts an additional fine, and only if the refusal is enforced. 

On the other hand, refusal to surrender your licence once you've lost the full twelve points gets you two years in prison, a 4,500€ fine and the loss of your vehicle. One might argue that this could be a breach of the terms of your insurance, but then again you wouldn't be driving or having accidents whilst you were in prison....[;-)]

 

 

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We were "flashed" and received a fine to our French address (car re-registered there) and on the form it said was liable to points.  However, it did not say we had to send our licence/how many points/where to send etc etc.  How do we stand on this one - fined in June and never received any other notifications from them.  I did pay the fine immediately though and the cheque was cashed very quickly too.

Thanks for your info.

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I seem to remember that you just sit tight.

They may just ask you to come in and exchange your licence for a french one so that they can "add" points to it.

If not, then you have got away with it.

However, be warned, these things tend to happen just when you have forgotten all about them.
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So the rules do say that you are obliged to exchange for any points carrying offence and that the penalty for not doing so is a fine but it's perverse that if the law requires you to exchange and you don't there is no more that they can do but fine you and not enforce the exchange. But maybe there is........

I note that the Code de la Route has this to say:

Driving without respecting driving licence requirements and restrictions

€135 fine

3 points

Possible 3 years suspension

If this applies, and it appears to me that driving without respecting driving licence requirements and restrictions squarely covers failing to exchange when told to, then by fining you enough times, and applying the 3 point penalty, at some time you become technically disqualified from driving in France despite still holding your UK licence.

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Dear oh dear!

But who is doing the telling? If the G-men arrive at your house and ask/tell you to submit your license 99% of people will oblige.

Otherwise all you have is a little cocher or "oui" in the box saying "perte de points" no instruction or demand to give over your license.

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Don't like the sound of this!!!!  We were not requested to send the UK licence anywhere for points to be added (deducted - whatever)!!!  Do these points IF we are eventually asked for the UK licence applicable in the UK too?????  We are not resident in France (although have GB French registered car) but what if we are "flashed" also whilst in our GB car????  (When I say WE - I mean my OH!!!!)  Feel this getting a bit scary now!!!!!!!  Should I amputate the right foot and get him to slow down?????

 

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Unfortunately, in one of my senior moments, I was speeding in a 50kph limit and was caught by a nice gendarme with a hand held radar gun. I had to pay a 90 Euros fine, he looked at my UK driving licence and then ticked the box on the fine to say I didn't have to have any points added. I also got 'done' for using a mobile phone (even though I was stationary and the engine turned off) and I challenged this and lost (you cannot use it on a public highway regardless of the engine being off etc). I seem to remember the fine way around 39 Euros and was valued at one point. Again because I had a UK licence the box was ticked to say I would not get any points.

I should stress that both these offences were in the Aude (11) department and other departments may do things differently. Having said that my friend got 'flashed' by a static camera (over two years ago now) in dept 66 got the paperwork through for the fine which he paid and had no points and has never been asked to exchange his licence.

Of course the way round it is not to speed but then I didn't take my own advice either and got caught. I guess if you put your hands up and apologise nicely instead of getting a strop on and arguing the toss and pay up straight away you may be less likely to get any points. It seems its up to the discretion of the gendarme that you deal with.

 

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Both times I got caught speeding were in a car other than mine and was only doing about 9km/h over the limit ie 99km/h in a 90km/h zone.

Both times the paperwork said points (just the one), both times I sent payment off and forgot about it. Not heard a thing back on either occassion. First time was Jan 08, second time Dec 08. Guess I have got away with it.

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Unless your PV form was different to mine Quillan the text beside the box says "perte de points" and in mine he had written an illegible "oui".

I have never subsequently been asked to surrender my license though, IIRC the points are logged on a computer and if they are still active and I were to exchange my license, voluntarily or otherwise then they would be applied to the new one.

Isnt the thrust of this thread that having been verbalised and received points on must send off ones license? 

I dont see how that can be so in reality as the French dont have to.

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I reckon this has been misinterpreted.

"L'échange d'un tel permis de conduire contre le permis français est obligatoire lorsque son titulaire a commis, sur le territoire français, une infraction au présent code ayant entraîné une mesure de restriction, de suspension, de retrait du droit de conduire ou de retrait de points. Cet échange doit être effectué selon les modalités définies par l'arrêté prévu à l'alinéa précédent, aux fins d'appliquer les mesures précitées.

The retrait de points must mean all the remaining points on the license which equates to a suspension.

The French definitely dont send of their license after the loss of a few points, indeed the license does not even show how many points remain, the only way to find out is to enter your license details on a government website I believe.

I think that people are assuming that the sytem works like in the UK where you cannot lose your last points resulting in loss of your license at the roadside or by paying a camera ticket, it quite rightly has to be decided by a magistrate who may not enforce the ban if you face genuine hardship like footballers and celebs [:P]

In France I surmise that it is up to you to keep tally and once you have fallen to zero you must send of your license, I assume that if you dont it would be followed up very swiftly by a fonctionaire, 5 or 6 years later!

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I was going to disagree with you, Chancer, until you added "5 or 6 years later."[:D]

Especially in our area, people are so laid back, what's the rush, leave it to tomorrow etc.

Eddie had to change his license, and he did eventually, then took the new one into into the local gendarmes as requested. They were quite puzzled - what's all this about then? Who told you to change it?

Building regs. and planning permission is another area where no-one seems to care what's going on.

The only thing they seem to be fussy about is on the spot fines, if you are unlucky enough to get caught.

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[quote user="Chancer"]Isn't the thrust of this thread that having been verbalised and received points on must send off ones license? 

I don't see how that can be so in reality as the French don't have to.[/quote]No, not verbalised, quite the opposite, the fact of losing a point and being obliged to exchange without being told to.

Also the act of sending off or taking one's licence to the prefecture is nothing to do with the French not having to because they already have a French licence for points to be deducted from, foreigners don't.

[quote user="Quillan"]I also got 'done' for using a mobile phone (even

though I was stationary and the engine turned off) and I challenged

this and lost (you cannot use it on a public highway regardless of the

engine being off etc).[/quote]Can this really be so, where is the supporting legislation ?

What are you supposed to do then, exit the vehicle, I suppose they'll get you then for not wearing a Hi-Viz vest, 'but officer, I haven't broken down, I'm just calling in late for tea' [:'(]

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At the time I was in a traffic jam caused by an accident about five to six hundred metres in front of me. They didn't actually pull me till after the accident had been cleared and I had just passed the scene and there was a lay-by with two motorcycle cops waiting. I was told that you should be out of the car or alternatively either pull in to a lay-by or be properly parked. This was just before the vest thing came in. I was told that in my situation (stuck in a line of traffic where a lay-by or parking space was not an option as I could not move) I should have got out of the car. My claim was that under the particular circumstances I thought the gendarme was being over zealous but it didn't wash.
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Quillan, that makes a complete nonsense of the whole rulling! I think that it's a great pity that they don't start looking at the clowns who use their phones whilst on the move!

"What are you supposed to do then, exit the vehicle, I suppose they'll get you then for not wearing a Hi-Viz vest, 'but officer, I haven't broken down, I'm just calling in late for tea' "

I can just see the scene of your French man standing beside the road and his car having a wee and getting done for not having his hi-vis vest on! Quel horreur [:-))], he would probably wet himself over that!

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ANother.

When I said verbalised I meant getting a ticket through the post or being given one at the side of the road which I think/thought was a P.V. - proces verbal.

When I went to the Gendarmerie about the cars parked on the 3 passage pietons in front of my building they said that they would come and "verbalise" them, like every time before they didnt and that very evening a pieton was run down on one of the crossings, I can tell you that I felt like going back the next day to give them some verbal but my French could not do my feelings justice.

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[quote user="Quillan"]At the time I was in a traffic jam caused by an accident about five to six hundred metres in front of me. They didn't actually pull me till after the accident had been cleared and I had just passed the scene and there was a lay-by with two motorcycle cops waiting. I was told that you should be out of the car or alternatively either pull in to a lay-by or be properly parked. This was just before the vest thing came in. I was told that in my situation (stuck in a line of traffic where a lay-by or parking space was not an option as I could not move) I should have got out of the car. My claim was that under the particular circumstances I thought the gendarme was being over zealous but it didn't wash.[/quote]Overzealous for sure but thankfully doesn't mean that you can't park safely at the roadside to use a phone which is what was suggested by your initial comments.

Reminds me of a time I was driving down the A1 in patchy daytime fog. There had been an accident somewhere ahead and there was diversion down a single track road causing a big tailback. Prior to joining it I had been one of the very few drivers correctly running with dipped headlights but on joining the queue had gone to sidelights as headlights were completely unnecessary plus the traffic was moving so slowly that at times I was turning the engine off for periods of several minutes. When I was within a couple of cars of the head of the queue and the turn off I was sarcastically lambasted by one of the plods directing traffic for not having my lights on - 'immune from the highway code are we then sir ?'. When I told him the reason my headlights were off at that moment his retort was a simple rude and insulting 'bollocks'. I was seriously of a mind to get out to take his number and report him but knowing it would be utterly pointless managed to restrain myself.

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