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Secondhand Cars, cheaper in France or UK?


roods
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I'm hoping to move to France from Cyprus in the not too distant future. Can anyone tell me whether it is better to buy a good secondhand car in the UK or France, leaving aside the issue of LHD or RHD. I'm quite happy driving either.

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Depends on the value of the car, if its pretty much at the end of its life and sold for spares it will probably be worth an awfull lot more here than in the UK.

My neighbour has just shown me his latest acquisition, its a very very down at heel 14 year old Ford Escort diesel (non turbo), it has done  150,000 kms but looks like 4 times that, to be fair the motor sounds OK but I dont know what it is like to drive.

The bodywork is dented everywhere and the paint has been badly patched pretty much all over by Stevie Wonder with an aerosol and is flaking off. I dont know how long the CT is but just a cursory inspection without even bending down or opening doors, boot bonnet etc reveals that it will need at least new cills and some patching of the inner rear wheel arches around the suspension mounts.

My neighbour is no fool and knows banger values better than the Argus, he made a killing last year on a fourgon that he bought to demenage his daughter and sold on to a local garagiste so I have to believe him when he tells me that ithe Escort was une affaire.

The price he paid was €800, I reckon that you would be lucky to get £50 for it in England.

He was gob-smacked when I told him that it would be worth £2000 remise à la casse in the UK if it had been owned for more than a year and that the majority of the deals on offer were for French manufactured cars. Or at least last time I looked it was only the French car makers taht were willing to stump up the grand to call the UK governments bluff.

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[quote user="Chancer"]...it was only the French car makers taht were willing to stump up the grand to call the UK governments bluff.[/quote]

I didn't know Bentley, BMW, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Daihatsu, FIAT, Ford,

Honda, Hyundai, Isuzu, Iveco, Jaguar, Kia, Land Rover, London Taxis

International, Mazda, Mercedes Benz, MG Motor, Mitsubishi, Nissan,

Perodua, Porsche, Proton, Rolls Royce, SAAB, SsangYong, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota,

Vauxhall, Volkswagen & Volvo (plus two or three others I'd never heard of, but have signed up for the scheme anyway) were French [:D]

Source:

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/Content/Detail.aspx?ClientId=431&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=405745&SubjectId=36

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Well earlier in the year when I was in the UK the only adverts that I saw promoting the scrappage scheme were Renault, Citroen and Peugeot, I asked my mate wot knows everything and he said that  no UK manufacturer at that time had signed up because there was insufficient margin, most cars were already being sold at significant discounts from list price.

He predicted cynically that they would first have to raise their list prices by £1000, I do remember reading later in the motoring press that this was happening by stealth, they did comparisons on Fiestas etc.

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I've got to say I'm puzzled. I had heard that s/h cars were more expensive in France and this thread seems to support it.

What I find hard to comprehend is the apparent difference in the levels of depreciation in the two countries.

As far as I am aware, the cost of new cars in both countries are broadly similar (perhaps I am wrong in this assumption?). So, starting with a one year-old car, you would expect that there should be a reasonably substantial drop in value - if not, why would you buy s/h? This should be repeated down through the years.

So what's happening in France?

For comparison purposes, in 2007 I bought an 1800 Mondeo (1996), sunroof,electric windows & mirrors, multi-change CD player/radio with a 12 month MOT and in excellent overall condition. Price? £350

And yes, I've still got it!

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[quote user="lebono"]

So what's happening in France?[/quote]

It is generally believed in France that, having bought something new at XXX price, then when resale time comes, the value will have fallen very little ...

Sue [8-)] - who thought of buying a 'pre-owned' kitchen for our rented home - a 'maison vide' - in 2005. But who quickly changed her mind when perusing the 'for sale' ads on line and in the local paper, and bought a new one instead.

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As an example of how much cheaper cars are in the UK, whilst in Brittany this summer I had to get the clutch replaced on our Citroen Berlingo, wandering around the sales yard whilst waiting for various things to happen I looked at a Rover 100/Metro they had - 1997, 80000km, €2200. Whilst there aren't many left in the Uk two things stuck me, one, no way would a main dealer have such a car, two, any dealer that had would probably asking £500 at the most, and it would probably be pretty easy to pick one up for £200 - 1/10 the value of the French one. At that rate, it would almost be profitable to buy in the UK and swap it to LHD and sell in France, almost.

I am not sure if secondhand cars are too cheap in the UK, or too expensive in France, or both!
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But, the thing is, new cars in France are almost twice the price of an almost identical model in the UK.  I know because I have been looking at new cars both here and back in the UK and I haven't done it just through curiosity but because I am seriously considering changing my car.

Couple of examples:

Hyundai Tucson 2wd £12000 UK, 28000 euros France

SSangyong (or whatever the name is but now a Hyundai company) 2.7 turbo diesel £13000 UK, 31000 euros France.

Not only that, Hyundai UK gives 5 years unlimited mileage warranty

Hyundai France give 3 years 60000km warranty.

Therefore, if cars are dearer new, it stands to reason they would cost more secondhand also.

Even taking into consideration the cost of changing the lights and French registration, UK beats France hands down.

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When I was trying to get my certificate of conformity, I accidentally got through to an export division of a UK Nissan dealer, who specialises in selling left hand drive cars (LHD) to continental customers, paid for in pounds sterling.  The bloke that I spoke to said that because of the pound -v- euro exchange rate, they were very busy.  So presumably, you can get a new LHD car in the UK at UK prices?

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[quote user="Cathy"]When I was trying to get my certificate of conformity, I accidentally got through to an export division of a UK Nissan dealer, who specialises in selling left hand drive cars (LHD) to continental customers, paid for in pounds sterling.  The bloke that I spoke to said that because of the pound -v- euro exchange rate, they were very busy.  So presumably, you can get a new LHD car in the UK at UK prices?
[/quote]

Maybe Nissan will sell a LHD ordered in UK and paid in pounds, many others (or some anyway) will refuse. Certainly Kia (and I assume Hyundai) refused to accept an order from me for a LHD, they would only sell RHD. Hence I had to buy at French prices, from a French dealer.

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There is another thread running, where some of us are discussing the possibility of buying a second -hand car in Germany and importing it.

It seems to me that the problem here  (for those of us who want to buy a car!) is that the second-hand car market is much smaller than in the UK, people keep their cars much longer and there aren't as many ex-company cars.

regards

L

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Yes, the used car market here is very small - having a look on ebay for a certain model both in france and uk confirms this- there will always be many ore available in uk. The uk`s current obsession with having a new car every year or two, keeping up with the Jonses even if it means hp`ing your soul means the market is flooded with used cars.This means low prices. When I lived in UK, £150 was my budget for a new car, and I could get pretty decent stuff for that much - 10 year old cavaliers, vectras, peugeots etc. I would run it for a year till it needed MOT`d, sell it on and buy another car...€100 wont buy you anything that runs in france.

Also, I cant speak for urban areas, but "depreciation" is not a word in a rural frenchmans vocabulary. If he buys a car or €2k, he will generally expect to run it into the ground and sell it for €1.5k.

I am reasonably happy to run RHD cars here, although it does have its drawbacks, I think these are far outweighed by the cost savings. However, I also recently spotted german prices and at the lower end of the car market, the same money will get you a better car in germany than france, and those I have been looking at are generally in better condition body-wise.

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Only thing is, Bob, the £ is now worth considerably less than it was 3 years ago.  Nowadays, you will find that British prices are, generally speaking, a third to half less than French prices.

If you're paying so much less to begin with, does the depreciation factor have the same impact?

In any case, believe it or not, I know Brits who are even now after my car (which isn't even on the road at the moment) and are prepared to pay nearly French secondhand prices for it.

Why?  Several reasons:  some Brits, especially older ones, don't like changing to LHD, some like an automatic gearbox (as my car is and as many French cars aren't), some worry about how a French owner might have driven their cars (like a nutter) and some I guess still prefer to deal with another fellow Brit.

I promise you I'm not making these things up and I must also confirm that I bought my last secondhand car from a French dealer but I did know about the car beforehand from a member of this Forum and I knew the previous owner was a Brit and I did find that fact immensely reassuring.

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Sweet 17,

That is very reassuring to me.  I have a ten year old passat automatic RHD which has been registered in France which I want to sell, and the local garages are not interested in buying it even for a song.  In fact when I bought a new LHD car, they would not even consider the passat in part exchange.

The car is in good condition, almost as new, and to my mind is nowhere near ready for scrapping.  However even though it was the love of my life, I need to sell or scrap it as we do not need two cars, and the insurance is quite expensive to keep it on the drive for the occasional shopping trip to keep it working.

If it does have value, does anybody know what would be the best way of selling it in North Deux-Sevres?  How would you value it in France?  It seems to me that quite a few UK expats might have this problem when changing from a UK car to a French car.

David

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David

Just because lots of people write that RHD cars are worthless in France dont make it so, dealers in the Uk will trot out the same line if you had a LHD car for sale wheras in fact they sell at a premium even in the UK, either they cant be bothered/dont want the PX or they are just trying it on knowing that they are on to a winner.

I suggest that you place an ad on leboncoin.fr with a typically inflated French price, make it clear that it is RHD but French registered and be prepared to have to reiterate this several times, I dont know why but a lot of punters here dont seem capable of reading an advert.

I just came back from buying my bread in Simply Market and found the following gem on one of the petit annonce cards.

Renault 21

265000kms

CT Ok

€1100

No mention of the year or any redeeming features perhaps the mileage is the best thing they can say about it [:)]

I am pretty out of date with UK prices and dont know when the Renault 21's were made although to me they were not the most desirable thing on the road, but what would be the maximum price this car would go for in the UK?

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I had a Renault 21 from my firm for a few months.  20 years ago now.  It was replaced by the Laguna so cannot be less than 15 years old, I reckon.  You are right, so long as the thing moves and has a CT, almost any vehicle is sale-able over here for what would be silly money for the equivalent in the UK.
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Hello

I'm coming at this issue from the other end, I have 2 LHD here in the UK that I need to sell.  I was going to return them to France to sell but having had a route around I have a nice man from the London LHD company coming up on the train with a wad of cash.  He made me an offer which was less than I would get in France but not stupidly so (and more than the equiv RHD second hand price) and with the hassle of getting it back over there now that I have rejoined the ranks of the wage slave is too good to turn down. 

So there are options on both sides of the water.

Panda

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You can see why those young French that go to work in the UK think that they have found shangri-la.

There are (were) jobs waiting for those that are willing and able to work hard, no being tied to one job for life, qualifications often not necessary just competance and a positive attitude.

Take home pay much higher.

A better car than they could dream of owning in France for much less money.

Most things much cheaper in the shops.

Air fares and package holidays much cheaper and more widely available.

Shops open during lunch hours and during the holiday season.

100 times more things available on E-bay, mail order on the net.

I could go on.

However when it comes to buying or renting their accomodation [:(]

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Jobs are still easier than France. 2 nephews of the wife started 01 Sept and a neice started 01 August, permanent jobs, in Newbury and Reading.

My employer supplies my car, and the wife's Audi S4 cabriolet came from Spain, bought it with us when I was reassigned. I've never bought a car here, but I have to listen to the in-laws moan about the prices.

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just to add my tuppence happeny

I was looking for a 2nd car as we had one family car and with 3 kids getting them to athletics/rugby/swimming in 3 different places at the same time was a pain.... anyway... looking for a cheap 2nd hand 4x4

our bread lady (she what delivers the bread) had a suzuki 4x4 jlx (the little hair dresser type soft tops). She wanted €3600 for it. It was k n ackered, ripped to pieces inside basehed to pieces outside. I got (RHD) one in the uk for €1100, supreme condition. French friends thought i was joking when i told them the price. In fact one friend was selling his big 4x4 for €24000, 80k on the clock. I could buy one new from UK for 16k !!! what planet are these people from?

Or is it the old story... oh you must be english so I'll double the price as you're probably a millionaire anyway.

It is interesting to hear about the German import side of things..seriously worth investigating. I will not be buying new in France

One thing I was pleasantly surprised with though was a spare key for the 4x4. €56 all in and coded.... I was quoted £180 without the coding charge in the UK...so not all bad then. And if something does go wrong, the main garagists charge about €45 an hour labour rather than the £80 in the uk

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