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Aftermarket parts lifespan


dave21478
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Has anyone else noticed a fairly sudden decline in the quality and lifespan of many aftermarket car parts? I assume cheap toss from China is to blame.

2 brand new track rod ends were among the many things I ordered from UK for the mini. They have been on the car a matter of months and have done less than 100 kms, but both rubber seals have completely disintegrated, and one is already a little "slack". I cant remember what brand was on the box, but they were from a reputable parts supplier.

A new seal kit for the brake master cylinder is another recent waste of cash. Again from the uk from a decent supplier, but despite definately being the "correct" kit, the seals were just not the right size, allowing fluid to seep past them and rendering it all useless. The whole thing got flung across the yard in a temper tantrum a while back and I paid through the nose for a whole new cylinder locally.

This isn't just a case of cheap chrome bling parts going rusty due to poor manufacturing - these are safety-critical items that just are not up to scratch. E-mails to the supplier got me the e-mail equivalent of shrugged shoulders and "yeah, what about it?" by way of reply. Hardly reassuring.

Its not just stuff from the Uk either - I was stuck in need of a wheel bearing for a Saxo a while back so bought one locally for an eye-watering 70 euros. Again, its the "correct" part, but the outer race is ever so slightly undersized - I assume due to poor manufacturing tolerances - so it just slipped into its hole with very little resistance and would be very likely to spin in place and cause all sorts of problems. Going back to the shop got me a real life shrugged shoulders and "eh alors?" as a reply. Hardly reassuring again.

An electronic ignition kit that just never worked from the beginning....the list goes on. Since I buy most of this stuff online, and since its all relatively low value stuff, returning it for exchange is rarely worth the expense, never mind the hassle.

My Grandad imparted the famous "buy cheap, buy twice" moto many years back, and its generally right, but when you have no real alternative, what do you do then? Keep buying this rubbish until you find one that's made properly?

And then we come to tyres. The subject of tyre life has been talked about on here before but I never gave it much thought. In January I bought a replacement car in UK and brought it down. Before I left Scotland, I bought 4 new tyres for it. Some forgettable brand that are seemingly made in the same factory as some other known brand - I can't remember offhand. Anyway, 4 months and less than 5k miles later, the fronts are about three quarters worn already, with the rears not far behind! ( yeah, about 8 feet behind har har har) I had the alignment checked when I bought them, and the chap appeared to do a half-assed job so I had it done again elsewhere a few days later, which confirmed the first guys work - its dead on spec.

Sure, its a silly wee boy-racer car which runs fairly wide tyres as standard, and sure, I drive it spiritedly every now and then but I am hardly screeching round every corner like an episode of Starsky and Hutch, so why are they worn out so soon? are road surfaces here more abrasive? or were the tyres just soft rubbish? will investing a not inconsiderable amount in decent brand replacements give a longer life? Place your bets now. :(

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It has always been a problem but you are right it is far worse these days for a variety of reasons, see below.

I remember 33 years ago fitting a succession of reconned steering racks to a customers mini only for each of them to fail the MOT retest, if you have ever fitted one to a mini, and I suspect you have, you will know that I was as pi55ed off as my customer, the worst was the play was always hidden by the spring of the steering damper and coud not be found on the bench only when the weight was on the car, looking back I now realise that the damper stop had been shimmed incorrectly or not at all.

Back then before the epoque of CAD and  CNC and SQC (statistical quality control) an engineer knew what tolerances and limits and fits were and more importantly what he could and couldnt work to with his machines, there were also inspectors to check and reject the parts. Critically back then these parts could not easily find their way onto a parallel market like mail order t'internet or E-bay.

As a designer I toleranced mating parts like bearings to BS4500a, I doubt many these days even know of its continued existence (the data sheet costs a whopping £32 now!) but in the later years of my career I found more and more sub contract shops being run by non engineers who when asked what tolerances they could achieve would say everything from our machines is spot on.

As a consequence the later generation of designers not having done a proper apprenticehip werent able to tolerance their drawings, instead relying on the diminishing knowledge of the sub contractors, then all the inspectors who were latterly called quality controllers were gradually made redundant.

Fast forward 20 years totoday where the parts are made in China and are pretty much worthless to everyone in the purchase chain, they just serve to bring in money, a bit like a sofa sold on the strap by World of Leather/Sh1te/whathaveyou. Of course parts supplied to the motor manufacturers are of a far better quality then ever before witnessed by the reliability of current cars, while the model is still in production the parts they buy in are from the O.E.M.'s but after that you are just as likely to get a chonky part from a main dealer.

In the early 90's a frind of mine rebuilt an Austin-Healey Sprite, we were chatting about the ready availalability of remanufactured parts and he told me that he had learnt his lesson, as like you have found Dave they rarely fitted or lasted, he would either use second hand original parts or rebuild them him-self.

About that time I worked for an O.E.M. auto-electronic manufacturer, I was responsible for factories in Costa-Rica and Singapore, some of the stuff we made, no most of the stuff was total crap, my Q.C. guy took to snipping wires off whole batches of components that failed test as he knew that the M.D. would sneak them out and sell them for cash, I still see some of the stuff appearing on E-bay.

The electronic ignition unit wasnt a Lumenition by any chance?

P.S. You once mentioned the name of the tyres, - "happy go lucky's" or something similar[:-))]  - it kind of found its way into my vocabulary [:)]

 

P.P.S. About 10 years ago after going through a few new-old stock seals on the rear wheel cylinders of my Westfield I found that new ones were no longer available and the scrapyards hadnt seen a 1600E Cortina for a good few years, begrudgingly I ordered a reconditioned one through Partco and had to send my old one off in exchange.

£33 was a lot of money but if it had been bored, sleeved and honed and with a new piston I figured worth the money, boy was I pissed off to find that it had been hand reamed to IIRC 1/32" oversize (it might have been a metric size but was the next size up from the standard bore) and ooked like a badgers back passage, the original piston had not even been polished and fitted like a pr1ck in a bucket, a new chonky sea had been fitted.

And do you now what the thing didnt leak! but I doubt that it would have lasted till the next MOT, as I was selling it I had no choice but I did warn the buyer.

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This is why I hardly post here at all any more.
If you dont like it, dont read it and keep your whinging to yourself.

What was once an interesting and useful forum (still is useful I suppose if you filter through the ****) seems to be slowly succumbing to t


I cant be bothered.

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I know where you are coming from Dave.

I realise that on a forum like this most people no longer work on their cars however there are many of their and my generation that still do through necessity. 

I dont take the jibes to heart and indeed  I will rib some posters myself but it does often seem to be in the wee small hours of the morning that comments like "you should get a life" "you should get out more" etc are posted, perhaps insomnia/alcohol fuelled.

There are many subjects covered on this forum that I might at first glance think are boring, as you say I dont have to read them but often do and always learn something new.

Dont be put off from posting, those that may find your subject boring are likely to be the first to ask for information when they think that they are being ripped off by a garagiste, it will be a shame to lose young and dynamic blood and a lot of people really enjoyed your postings about running the gites.

Good luck with the restaurant.

 

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Take no notice Dave,

Trolls can be found on any forum anywhere.

I get a fair amount of parts from Eurocarparts and despite being told my life was in danger for doing so (Volvo main dealer) one morning I saw the Eurocarparts van leaving the main agents having just delivered, called in on the parts man and behold they were re-boxing the disk pads into Volvo boxes at treble the price!

PS how did you get on with that diesel engine that gave you all the problems?

 

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[quote user="dave21478"]This is why I hardly post here at all any more.
If you dont like it, dont read it and keep your whinging to yourself.

What was once an interesting and useful forum (still is useful I suppose if you filter through the ****) seems to be slowly succumbing to t


 i cant be bothered.

Post edited by mod
[/quote]

Maybe not everybody is interested in your problems, but that doesn't mean others aren't., and who dragged you into the tyre shop and made you purchase cheap tyres.  It's difficult to decide whether something is interesting/likeable or not without reading it, as you found out when you read the reply's you didn't like. 

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All perfectly clear and understandable to me although I must admit that there is large a gap in my education and experience when it comes to badgers bums [:D]

Each to their own but to those of us who still do all their own car maintenance and repairs, right down to rebuilding engines, gearboxs, alternators, starter motors, in fact anything which can be got apart, it's a far more interesting topic than any discussions about horse colic or little Johnnies problems at the lycee [blink]

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[quote user="dave21478"] This is why I hardly post here at all any more. [/quote]

Don't Stress Dave, just look at the number of views, a couple of yawning posts but a couple hundred of interested, I may not have much to comment on the gites but have a giggle at yours.
As regards the original posting topic, like Chancer's mate I tend to go looking for original used spares and where this fails on marque bits then try people like Moss, for Mini, Sprite and 'B' bits.
Snag on modern stuff is that the original parts are outrageous costs (three figures for a key!) but the some of the aftermarket parts quality beggar belief. As for tyres then I buy original spec or equivalent where possible, expensive but it does make a difference when cornering, that has to be balanced against high-day and holiday low mileage usage, tyres on the 'B' are barely worn but are now 6 or 7 years old.

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[quote user="AnOther"]All perfectly clear and understandable to me although I must admit that there is large a gap in my education and experience when it comes to badgers bums [:D]

Each to their own but to those of us who still do all their own car maintenance and repairs, right down to rebuilding engines, gearboxs, alternators, starter motors, in fact anything which can be got apart, it's a far more interesting topic than any discussions about horse colic or little Johnnies problems at the lycee [blink]
[/quote]

 

Very much seconded

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Nice to hear some others still fix their own cars. I'm beginning to wonder how much longer this will be possible with the sources of used parts drying up because of the indiscriminate crushing of perfectly useable cars under government scrappage schemes.

I once had a reliable source of Alfa 33 parts from a local casse, who had several fairly low mileage insurance write-offs, but when I called them recently I was told they had all been crushed, as they didn't have space for them any more with all the scrappage cars coming in.

I tried to buy one wreck from them some time back; they said that it would be illegal, but my local garagiste doesn't have a problem with that.

I have now bought 2 spare cars which should keep me going for most requirements.

As for sub standard spares, I've had mostly good luck on eBay, but one of the recently purchased CV joints for my VW Transporter is making clicking noises. I guess the tolerances are not so good as they should be, but on the other hand they should still run a long time with the generous amount of grease in them.

These also came with high tensile 12.9 bolts instead of the original grade 10.9. This seemed a good idea, but the bolts didn't stretch enough with the specified torque (I was reluctant to torque them more for fear of stripping the threads in the flanges), and the Schnorr lockwashers didn't bite into the harder heads.

Result: the bolts came loose and one shaft actually came adrift completely after a couple of hundred Km. All is fine again with the old bolts and (more) new washers.

I don't really think some of the parts coming from China etc. are that much worse than what was produced in UK/Europe when the older cars were current.

 

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No, that would be 'pre owned' in the modern vernacular [:D][:D][:D]

'Aftermarket' refers to new spares bought from independent outlets and does not only apply to car parts of course.

You can be sure that when we mean scrappie we'll say so [;-)]

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[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]Thanks for that Ernie, so 'Aftermarket parts' is just old fashioned replacement parts then.[/quote]

Not quite. There is a distinction between parts that are supplied by the company that originally made the vehicle or that part of the vehicle - the Original Equipment Manufacturer (known as OEM parts), and aftermarket parts, which are generally manufactured by third party companies that did not supply them to the vehicle assembler. These are also known as "pattern parts" in that their shape has often been determined by making a drawing from the part as fitted to the vehicle rather than being made to the manufacturer's drawings - a subtle distinction but it can be important, particularly if the manufacturing process or materials used are different.

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]So why not call them replacement parts - just a rhetorical question really![/quote]

Because there is a distinction between OEM parts and aftermarket or pattern parts.

In general, though not always, OEM parts cost more than aftermarket parts and "in theory" carry the aura of respectability and the expectation of good quality and good performance.

Recent tests by the French motoring magazine "Auto Plus" revealed some quite frightening results from aftermarket brake components.

Of course, the "simple" distinction above can become murky if - as happens in some cases - once the vehicle has gone out of production and the "original" OEM spares are exhausted, the production of "official" spare parts may be subcontracted to a low-volume specialist spares manufacturer ....

Regards

Pickles

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Here's one for ya I worked in the automotive industry making electronic connectors. I was the toolmaker.

It was part of my job to make genuine parts and after market parts. We used the same moulds and plastic, but the difference was I had to remove the logo for the aftermarket parts(BMW, Ford etc.)

Of course that was before they closed the factory and sent it to India. I'm sure this has happened for a lot of the automotive ind..

There toolmakers came over to learn about the process its fair to say they did't have much experience and most of them were just motorbike mechanics etc. thats just the way it is in poorer countrys, they have to start somewhere i suppose.

The point I'm making is a lot of the process that were moved abroad to low cost manafacturing countrys, don't have good knowlege or experience hence poor quality parts.
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  • 3 weeks later...
Even parts fitted to vehicles during the original factory build are not fit for purpose, recently had an inlet manifold fail on a car only a couple of years old, only to discover it was a well known common fault that coincidently occurs just out of warranty. It subsequently involved a costly repair with a modified part and to which the manufacturer declined to contribute despite several requests from the dealer. 
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Exhaust systems are a case in point.

Often an original system can last for anything up to 8 or 10 years however once you replace it it seems to become a bi or tri annual job. Even genuine systems from the main agent don't seem to fare much better [:(]

Stainless steel would be the anwer but unless the car is something special which you plan to keep who wants to spend that sort of money on a 10 year old car.

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[quote user="Théière"]

Take no notice Dave,

Trolls can be found on any forum anywhere.

I get a fair amount of parts from Eurocarparts and despite being told my life was in danger for doing so (Volvo main dealer) one morning I saw the Eurocarparts van leaving the main agents having just delivered, called in on the parts man and behold they were re-boxing the disk pads into Volvo boxes at treble the price!

PS how did you get on with that diesel engine that gave you all the problems?

 

[/quote]

Many years ago, a chum of mine who restored old Rolls and Bentleys and was a member of the RR Club, was at Servais Silencers in Cricklewood, to collect some orderd "Pattern" exhaust parts.

As he was waiting at the trade counter, a black Austin J4 van drove up onto the forecourt and a chap emerged in sparkling clean Rolls factory overalls.

"I've come to collect the order for Rolls Ryce Motors, Crewe" he stated rather pompously.

As the exhaust system was placed on the counter, my chum watched the man unbutton his top pocket, remove some substantial silver foil labels carrying the legend "Genuine Rolls Royce Service Part" and very carefully, ensuring they were central and properly squared off, afix them to the various components!

As chum said to me later "And that involved and highly technical labelling process, just increased the price of the system by probably 3,000%!

There always were pattern parts: and pattern parts............cheap exhausts which didn't actually bend correctly in the right places being perhaps the very worst![:-))]

Most major parts manufacturers such as Quinton Hazel, always did supply both the manufacturers and the aftermarket.

I've used Eurocarparts almost since they started trading, both for Mrs Gluey's Volvo estates and my BMWs: only ever experienced one problem and that was a pair of Boge gas strut inserts for a Volvo, incorrectly supplied.

I deal, locally, also, with a few well established motor factors I've known since my own time as a garage proprietor, and these firms seem to source parts from more reliable suppliers, with good quality control.

On Chinese parts: a few years ago, Bell Helicopters in the USA were having problems with counterfeit parts (A huge problem in the aeronautical industry): they assessed a rotable: a drive shaft and UJ. And discovered to their chagrin that the moody part was of better quality than their own!

Personally, I always examine any pattern part very carefully: and if , say a CVJ, then I would remove the gaiter and check the tolerances at the extremes of intended operating angle. I do believe it pays here, to hand select such parts and return them if not visually and physically to spec. Prior to fitting.

On the topic of the forum, I very much agree with AnOther and Steve Diesel: there also seems an increase in what I call "Drive By Snipers": they offer little or nothing to a thread in terms of meaningful posts, but seem to get their buzz from sniping.

Personally, I do find on techical matters this forum is very fortunate to enjoy a raft of members with a breadth of developed and obvious expertise and knowledge on a very wide range of matters from electrical house wiring to engineering: it's an invaluable resource. And so many willingly expend their time and row in with solutions, answers and possible explanations.

As an example: using my big grunty old Efco Brushcutter last trip, the recoil starter ratchet suddenly died: took it apart and the two coil springs which hold in the hard nylon pawls have rusted away and finally broke!

No big deal as I have a coil of light gauge piano wire "In Stock": so will make up some new coil springs before next "gardening" visit.

And, I plan to post a small thread and pics which might be useful for anyone else in the same position: no chance to buy suitable replacement coil springs: and no big deal to make.

And suitable piano wire is readily available all over the globe: even in la belle France! Light guitar strings, for example.

The trick is in correct tempering.

 

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