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Time will tell Bugsy!

But until such time as the new laws are backdoored in, or an uprising of the people force the hand for a government rethink, we can still take enjoyment in the fact that the proposals are just that - proposals!

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[quote user="Bugsy"]That's simply not based on any reality in that

there is far more likelihood of bringing about a governmental 'change

of heart' if enough people actually get out there and make their

feeling known.

Fuel strikes

Fishing quotas

Meat imports

Farm subsidies

etc, etc.[/quote]

I don't think you can seriously equate those issues with the subject in

hand. Have you got a logical defensible argument against the proposal,

after all you only have to obey the long existing traffic law to

completely negate the need for camera alerts of any sort.

Could the motorbike avatar be a subtle clue to your objection I wonder [Www]

I doubt the average French driver gives a monkeys, if they even know about it !

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If you followed the news Ernie you would know that its not just about GPS safety camera software, but a whole raft of proposals hurriedly drafted together in a poor attempt to show that they were taking action against several months of rising road mortality figures.

What removal of this software will do to improve accident statistics is not readily apparent.

 

Camera software has, I would suggest, saved many a law-abiding person from the dreaded flash for being a few kph over the posted limit.

You may be, of course someone who is happy to state that they have never ever driven over a speed limit. I don't believe you but hey, each to his own.

The three plans about bike related changes don't actually affect me too much in that I have always carried a reflective tabbard anyway.

I've ridden without a break all my life so the five-year rule doesn't apply.

The large number plate is just stupid and again is unlikely to affect me as it will, I'm led to believe, only affect new registrations.

As to the french drivers not being aware well, you couldn't be more wrong. Massive demos are planned for both this month and next.

You may be happy to sit back and let this happen without a fight but a lot of other people aren't.

Watch this space.

.

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Hmm.  The software thing is fine by me - I don't switch my GPS on unless I don't know where I'm going and I don't have the audible warning switched on anyway.  Plus, loads of people can't afford GPS.  More likely to get people caught, I suspect, will be the removal of the warning panels, especially in the case of the new cameras being introduced which will record average speeds over long distances.

Whether any of this stuff will reduce road deaths or not is questionable imho.  Speeding is one thing but I reckon that better road manners and awareness might help more.  If they would put more effort into enforcing existing rules such as safe driving distances, respecting road markings, proper use of signals (any use at all would be an advance for some) etc, then I'd be happier with these new measures.  Prosecuting people for speeding is just going after an easy target - it doesn't seem to me to go any way to helping to solve an underlying problem here - a generally poor standard of driving in some areas and a poor understanding and lack of respect for the rules of the road. 

Apologies for the sweeping generalisation to the French members of this forum but honestly, I cannot believe how badly some people drive and how often I see the same faults in so many people.  Driving onto roundabouts without looking left; sitting on my bumper for kilometer after kilometer without overtaking; turning into side turnings on the wrong side of the road; indicating at the last minute - if at all- whilst failing to look in their mirror first;  the list is endless.[:-))]

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They seem to be spending a lot of money on erecting the Speed Camera signs in my area if they are then going to pull them down in the next few months or so...

We have just recently had installed on the N147 in St Bonnet de Bellac 2 new cameras both with signage and I also noticed today that there is another new one in the middle of Lussac les Chateau with new signage.

Seems a waste of money if you ask me....
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[quote user="Bugsy"]Crikey, so you lot are just going to roll over and accept this stupid piece of proposed legislation. How very sad. National Protest Day June 18th - all types of vehicles. Get out there . .[/quote]

I wont lose sleep over it, after all its only une amende of €30000 [:-))]

In 6 years of ballading I only know of 4 speed cameras within a 100 mile radius and they are on the map, I can usually remember where they are, and I drive blomin slow now!

The real shame about driving so slowly for economy is that I could have got away clean from 100's of speed camear contraventions in the UK whilst driving on French plates had I driven at "normal" speeds.

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We had a speed camera very near to where I used to live. No reason really, good bit of road as opposed to the hundreds of dangerous bits within 10 kms, but why catch people acting dangerously on dangerous bits of road, when you can get them on a nice straight bit.

I think that this legislation is very very stupid, so it will probably go through, even if there are manif. Of all the things that any government needs to do why do they waste their time on stuff like this.

I know that the roads need to be safer, maybe they should have a law just to make all the manufacturers of sat navs have good and proper information on them, so no lorries hit low bridges or drive into rivers, and fine the sat nav companies if they get their info wrong. At least that would make some driving safer for some. 

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On one of my regular commutes to work is a speed camera. It is on a stretch of 40mph road. Cars hurtle past me and the regulars are aware of where the sign is others see the yellow of the back of it and I suppose others are informed by their Sat Navs. Suddenly a sea of bright red as they slow to go past the camera and once past speed up.

This does nothing to control the speed on the rest of the road. So I agree with what is being proposed and would also welcome concealed cameras and no warning signs.

This is someone who tries to keep within the speed limit and finds at times on certain roads I get flashed hooted at etc when keeping at the speed limit.

The only deterent to speeding, in the UK, is when someone has been done 3 times and the 4th will mean a ban. Personally, I would up the points from 3 to 6 so that they get banned after the second offence.

It amazes me how people like to pick and choose which laws they obey. So for those who do not wish to obey speed laws they must think that those who do not wish to obey housebreaking laws are OK and that they are free to break in to their house whenever they wish.

Paul

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I agree  Paul.  I've been known to break this particular law but never knowingly in 70kph limits or under nor when the road is busy or conditions are poor.  If I get ever get caught then I know that I will just have to put up with the punishment and fair enough and maybe if this ever happens I'll feel differently about fast stretches of open road too.  However - and I'm sure this isn't you - I do see plenty of drivers sticking to the speed limit but ignoring basic rules of the road ("mirror, signal, manoevre" for instance).  What's making me grumpy about this is that once again the target is the simple one and the one which brings in all the dosh.   Nobody seems to care about prosecuting people for the other dangerous things they do because it's in the too difficult pile.
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[quote user="PaulT"]It amazes me how people like to pick and choose which laws they obey. So for those who do not wish to obey speed laws they must think that those who do not wish to obey housebreaking laws are OK and that they are free to break in to their house whenever they wish.[/quote]

What a ridiculous comparison [blink]

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[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="PaulT"]It amazes me how people like to pick and choose which laws they obey. So for those who do not wish to obey speed laws they must think that those who do not wish to obey housebreaking laws are OK and that they are free to break in to their house whenever they wish.[/quote]
What a ridiculous comparison [blink]
[/quote]

So which laws are optional?

How many people are killed or injured by speeding motorists?

How many people are killed by housebreakers?

The point I am making is that laws are there to be observed. There is a mechanism for changing them but that is not by just breaking them. What, in principle, is the difference in breaking one particular law versus another?

Paul

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[quote user="cooperlola"]I agree  Paul.  I've been known to break this particular law but never knowingly in 70kph limits or under nor when the road is busy or conditions are poor.  If I get ever get caught then I know that I will just have to put up with the punishment and fair enough and maybe if this ever happens I'll feel differently about fast stretches of open road too.  However - and I'm sure this isn't you - I do see plenty of drivers sticking to the speed limit but ignoring basic rules of the road ("mirror, signal, manoevre" for instance).  What's making me grumpy about this is that once again the target is the simple one and the one which brings in all the dosh.   Nobody seems to care about prosecuting people for the other dangerous things they do because it's in the too difficult pile.[/quote]

I try to be a considerate driver.

What really gets me though are some motorists and traffic lights:

Green means go through

Amber means go through

Red means start counting and if you do not get to twenty go through

For me this is far worse and dangerous than some speeding.

Whenever the lights change to red I always expect the person behind me to crash in to the back of my car because they expect that I will drive through as do those in the lane next to me.

Paul

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[quote user="PaulT"]

How many people are killed or injured by speeding motorists?

[/quote]

On a ratio basis not many, there are millions of speeding motorists (all forms) but not that many people are killed or injured. (being pedant and missing the point) [8-)]

I used the non motorway route as was being discussed recently. I was taken aback by the huge numbers of lorries that used to be on the motorways are now using minor routes and by the number of cameras on thses routes now. Point is the speed limits change very frequently and the lorries often obscure the signs indicating a change in the limit so a satnav with the current limit displayed is vital these days especially if you are not in familiar territory.  Personally the camera database draws your attention to the limits which does make you slow down but that's probably an age thing, at 21 there were no limits anywhere only limiting factor was my ability (or lack of it) to arrive at my destination. (first car mini cooper [:-))]) I was having fun but was never intending to hurt anyone else. It would be interesting to find out the age of the most "dangerous" group

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[quote user="Théière"] It would be interesting to find out the age of the most "dangerous" group[/quote]Yes, it would.  I'd re-test all drivers over 75 but of course that would cost money (instead of making it) and would lose votes so that's that idea out of the window.
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Speed limiters on small, light cars.

Make power steering on small cars much tougher - at present it causes accidents.

Retest youngsters caught speeding in the first three years.

No carrying of passengers for the first year or so, except nominated people, eg family.

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[quote user="Théière"] It would be interesting to find out the age of the most "dangerous" group[/quote]

16 - 19 years of age, the risk lessens with age but continues through to their late 20’s. For 16 to 19 year olds the key accident characteristics were:

 • Higher proportion of night-time accidents.
 • Higher proportion of single vehicle incidents (a third in comparison to one-fifth for the overall population).
 • Majority of accidents on all-purpose roads.
 • Difficulties on some motorways and on other high speed roads
 • Problems on Fridays, at weekends and also at night between the hours of 8pm and 5am.
 • Higher proportions of accidents involving loss of control on bends and when overtaking.
 • More likely to have two or more casualties than the rest of the population.
 • Right-turn accidents involving the youngest drivers
 • Potentially higher accident involvement due to attitudinal faults such as deliberate speeding and recklessness.

70+ years of age. The key characteristics for this age group to emerge from the accident analysis were:

 • A relatively high fatality risk overall and greater likelihood of two or more casualties per accident than the rest of the population.
 • A higher percentage of pedestrian fatalities relative to age, when compared with the general population, with a marked increase for the age group 60 to 69.
 • A high number of injuries and fatalities at road crossings (almost half of these accidents occurred at Pelican, Puffin, toucan or similar non-junction pedestrian light crossings).
 • Accidents mainly occurring in non-peak daylight hours (10am to 4pm).
 • Increased accidents involving a right-turn manoeuvre (over 13 per cent compared to nearly four per cent for all other age groups).
 • Accidents involving the driver gauging the speed of approaching vehicles or the vehicle in front.
 • Night-time driving, especially on un-lit roads and other higher risk periods.

Source: Highways Agency "Analysis of over-representation of high-risk age groups in road traffic incidents".

Figures based upon 1999 - 2003 findings so possibly have altered a bit. Interesting to see no mention of drug or alcohol use being an additional factor! 

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[quote user="Théière"]Point is the speed limits change very frequently and the lorries often obscure the signs indicating a change in the limit so a satnav with the current limit displayed is vital these days especially if you are not in familiar territory.  [/quote]

Are they parked by the signs? :-)

If you can't see the signs you are driving too close.

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I've used this example before but there are long stretches of the RN 10 in Les Landes where lorries are restricted to the inside lane. This results in a "wall" effect on your nearside blocking change in speed limit signs.

Where are the speed cameras? In the centre reservation of course. Sneaky or what?

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[quote user="Alex H"][quote user="Théière"]Point is the speed limits change very frequently and the lorries often obscure the signs indicating a change in the limit so a satnav with the current limit displayed is vital these days especially if you are not in familiar territory.  [/quote]

Are they parked by the signs? :-)

If you can't see the signs you are driving too close.

[/quote]

No they are running about 3 feet apart from each other to save fuel.
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[quote user="Anton Redman II"][quote user="Alex H"][quote user="Théière"]Point is the speed limits change very frequently and the lorries often obscure the signs indicating a change in the limit so a satnav with the current limit displayed is vital these days especially if you are not in familiar territory.  [/quote]

Are they parked by the signs? :-)

If you can't see the signs you are driving too close. (think that one through Alex)

[/quote] No they are running about 3 feet apart from each other to save fuel.[/quote]

(so much easier with a proper browser) [:)]

The speed limit signs need to be in the central reservation for all to see along with the direction signposts, this applies to the UK too,

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[quote user="Théière"]

[quote user="Anton Redman II"][quote user="Alex H"][quote user="Théière"]Point is the speed limits change very frequently and the lorries often obscure the signs indicating a change in the limit so a satnav with the current limit displayed is vital these days especially if you are not in familiar territory.  [/quote]

Are they parked by the signs? :-)

If you can't see the signs you are driving too close. (think that one through Alex)

[/quote] No they are running about 3 feet apart from each other to save fuel.[/quote]

(so much easier with a proper browser) [:)]

The speed limit signs need to be in the central reservation for all to see along with the direction signposts, this applies to the UK too,

[/quote]

Well, I must have missed the bit where dual carriageway was mentioned, on a single carriageway road my comments apply.

 However, in addition, around here the speed limit signs are in the central reservation and at the side of the carriageway.

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Another article from: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/

French Motorists Mobilize To Fight SpeedCam Warning Ban

Article by: Darren Griffin

Date: 19 May 2011

The

announcement last week of new French legislation that will ban speed

camera warning devices has been met with anger by motorists.

French

Government proposals will outlaw the sale and use of speed camera

warning devices. Using a warning device will cost a driver €1,500 in

fines with six penalty points whilst selling a device would result in a

€30,000 fine and the possibility of two years in prison.

The

Government also announced that warning signs would be removed as part of

their response to a 13% increase in road fatalities in Q1 of 2011.

A Facebook

page, set up by the Association Interprofessionnelle de l'AFFTAC, a

group of warning device manufacturers, has received 128,000 followers

in three days and even the normally vocal road safety campaigners have

sided with motorists and called for a re-think on the plans due to come

into effect in September 2011.

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Frankly I can't quite see how a ban on GPS warning devices can work.

Firstly Sat Navs are so common now that the sheer numbers make it an impossible task to check everybody just because they are using one.

Secondly most if not all Sat Navs can be PIN code protected so if switched off, something easily accomplished even during the process of being pulled over, how is a Gendarme going to prove that you have been using one with a warning device, a new offence of failing to switch it on when requested perhaps ?

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[quote user="AnOther"] ........ how is a Gendarme going to prove that you have been using one with a warning device, a new offence of failing to switch it on when requested perhaps ?[/quote]

Possibly falling going under the term - 'Obstruction' maybe ?

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