Importing car without homologation certificate - cost?

[nomoss]

Has anyone managed to import a UK registered car which has a non-original engine (not even same make as the car) ?

If so, how difficult, and what did it cost?

I have a 1973 Ro80 (which I have had since 1984). I fitted a Hurley Mazda engine in 2000. Not unexpectedly, VW (who bought Audi, who bought NSU) won't issue a certificate of homologation.

Unfortunately I changed the engine details on the V5C some years ago to make it all properly legal (to import here). If I'd left it showing the original engine I don't think anyone would have noticed the difference.

I can't change the V5C back to the original engine (which I still have) unless I take the car back to UK, have a garage change the engine, and get a letter from the garage for DVLA.

Even though I changed the details before simply by using the relevant bit of the V5C, to change them nowadays is quite another matter. UK gets more like France every day.

 

[Anton Redman II]

Try the NSU

80 Ro

http://www.club-nsu.fr/fiche%20Ro80.html

in france

[dave21478]

Engine change notification to DVLA is easy enough to get around. Write to them explaining you did the conversion yourself, using an engine block and head you bought second hand and all new internals. Say the block had been soda blasted / chemically cleaned and no engine number was left visible.

Include a written report from Honest Dave`s BackStreet Garage Services detailing how "car with reg XYZ was presented to them for inspection. It has an apparently reconditioned engine of original type, fitted to factory standards"

[Sunday Driver]

Why don't you apply to the FFVE for a dating certificate so you can register the car as a voiture de collection?  The application form only asks for the the engine's details such as cubic capacity, bore and stroke, gears, etc, so they can calculate the puissance fiscal for your carte grise.

 

[nomoss]

Unfortunately the FFVE also require homologation. They state the CGC is for vehicles without papers or never imported, specifically not for modified vehicles.

From their website, their procedure for issuing the necessary attestation includes this step:

elle (the FFVE) s’assure de la conformité du véhicule, en vérifiant que celui-ci est conforme au certificat d’homologation constructeur (français ou étranger) et elle authentifie les caractéristiques administratives du véhicule dans le dossier. La FFVE ne peut se substituer au service des Mines (DRIRE) auprès duquel tout véhicule modifié ou toute réplique doit être présenté, sous peine de graves risques en cas d’accident (les assurances ne « suivront » pas). De manière générale, la FFVE assume une responsabilité vis-à-vis des pouvoirs publics et ne peut valider aucune transformation notable.

They will see immediately from the V5C that the engine size doesn't conform.

If they ask VW for details, my car is already on file there as having been refused a homologation certificate. I know this as I phoned a year later, and they quoted the details back to me.

They (VW) can give me a certificate if I have a garage here replace the original engine, and attest to the fact, but then I'd have problems with the prefecture, as the engine details wouldn't match the V5C.

This is where I came in. I sent the V5C to Swansea to change the engine details back again, but they returned it unchanged and said they needed a UK garage to verify the change.

I don't really want to replace the original engine, nor make round trip to UK. Apart from the work involved, it first needs rebuilding, and is far less economical than the Mazda engine.

That is why I'm trying to discover the eventual cost of taking it to DRIRE, and the likelyhood of successfully importing it.

[Sunday Driver]

This DRIRE guidance note describes the process for obtaining approval for an engine modification: 

Modification ou remplacement de moteur et/ou de la transmission non conformément a un agrément de prototype

Budget around 1,000€ for the UTAC tests...

 

[nomoss]

Thanks for that SD. A few hurdles there it might be more than just difficult to clear... 

I miss the days when one wasn't forced to accept the dross produced by most car manufacturers, and could make intelligent mods to improve them.

Manufacturers it seems, are infallible. Even if they occasionally produce a car in which the brake can be applied by the passenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13566999 . - What a ridiculous and basic error!

As someone recently remarked on a TV programme, if the motor car were just invented today it would never be allowed. [:D]

[Anton Redman II]

Have you tried ringing up the owners club last time I went o a meat they were running Mazda engines

[nomoss]

[quote user="Anton Redman II"]Have you tried ringing up the owners club last time I went o a meat they were running Mazda engines[/quote]

Thanks for that info'. I'll definitely contact them to find out how they do that.

 

[Anton Redman II]

Old note about engine changes in France - written by me so I feel free to quote :

As in many things in France it can be done but you need Friends in Low Places and persistence. I have navigated a Renault 8 detailed as a Gordini with a Renault 16 engine and gearbox. I do not think that the 306s with the 407 V6 which were coming out of Scotland in small number 10 years ago would be on.

First case – Mini 850 to Mini 1275GT possible and easy provided everything else is changed and the manufacturer authorises the conversion.

Second case – BDA engine into Escort Mexico or RS 2000. Even though Ford may agree car never sold in France. See list of tests and weep

Third case – Manufacturer does not comment, test and inspections as listed.

Forth case – Manufacturers says no. So you cannot build a Merlin engine into a Silver Shadow estate

Tidied up translation below :

Change of engine (source http://www.aquitaine.drire.gouv.fr)

The change of engine and / or transmission on a vehicle is a delicate operation, which may have influence on safety: handling, Braking, impact resistance front. Prior to processing, the opinion of the vehicle manufacturer must be asked. Four cases can then occur:

• The manufacturer authorizes the conversion of a vehicle type X, and states that the vehicle is consistent with a known model (if necessary after adjustment) type Z: the receipt as may be isolated granted. The fiscal power of the converted vehicle will be identical to that of known model sold in France

• The manufacturer authorizes the conversion, but the vehicle does not comply fully converted to the model-known as a single receipt can be given, but the power Tax will be recalculated. It will probably be higher than the known model.

• The manufacturer does not comment on the conversion, the application will be forwarded to the Division of Technical Controls DRIRE for consideration. Specific tests can then be applied (such as brake tests by a laboratory recognized as UTAC)

• The manufacturer is opposed to the transformation. The conversion will not be registered.

Records to be filed with the Prefecture

• Printed CERFA registration application, completed and signed.

• A cheque for the current price (to be given when presenting the vehicle to DRIRE).

• Description of specific changes.

• Registration document for the original car and a photocopy

• Proof of the origin engine and / or transmission (eg, certificate of destruction of the vehicle type Y whose elements are derived, invoice detailing Engine the type and number of engine and / or transmission as well as the trade name of vehicle it was mounted (eg, BX 15, 405SRI) or type Y)

• The technical advice of the manufacturer detailing all the changes to be made to adapt the engine and / or transmission of the Y type, and whether the vehicle type is X or not conform to a design already approved type Z.

• A certificate issued by transformer (on company letterhead stating the name and title of signatory) confirming that the transformation was performed according to the rules of art and requirements set by the vehicle manufacturer

• Descriptive notes the types of vehicles before (Type X) and after processing (type Z), if the original engine and / or transmission (type Y)

• A ticket to control emissions of pollutants, accepted (eg performed in a technical control centre for light vehicles).

• A report of noise control, established by a brigade of technical control of the national police, accepted

• Prove control the suppression by the technical services of broadcast service France, accepted (unless the new diesel engine)

•Figures for corner weights of the unladen vehicle

• If the vehicle has more than 4 years, copies of minutes (initial and additional after change) Controlle Technique(MOT)

Note:

A metal plate bearing the information below should be riveted to the plate near the original manufacturer manufacturers plate.

Make

Model

VIN Number

Reason for Change

Date

DIMENSIONS: 10 x 7 cm CHARACTERS: The minimum height 4 mm brand, type and serial number (VIN) will be those contained in the vehicle registration current.

The date will be the RTI appointment made for the presentation of the vehicle to DRIRE