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British cars in France


Mac
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This is a post for my interest only really as we have a french registered car. I was told by a couple of insurance companies here that you can not insure a still UK registered car with french insurance ( I understand that you can get maybe 6 months or so on the proviso that you are going to re-register) So-why do you see so many UK plate cars that have a year's insurance and CT stickers? Are some insurance companies still insuring UK plate cars and is it still legal if you have an accident or would the insurance co. then deny you have cover?
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I reckon it's just because people lie to the insurers and tell them they will comply with the law and re-register within a month then just don't bother.  I hope for their sakes that they aren't paying fully comp' which won't be honoured in case of a prang., or for my sake that one of these idiots doesn't run me over.

EDIT : We insured our car on its UK plates when we first came over.  The insurance broker told me in no uncertain terms that we must re-register and even went so far as to suggest that if we broke the law in that way and the French insurance industry found out, that we would be black-balled and that it would be virtually impossible to find French insurance as the local grapevine would flag up the fact that we were driving illegally.  How true this is I don't know as, naturally, we changed our plates to French ones (although within three months, not one, since Skoda couldn't decide who should issue the certificate of conformity.)

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Some of the problem I'm sure comes from the fact that there does not seem to be any functioning system of flagging up policies even when they have been sold with a 3 or 6 month proviso and therefore they just roll on and are automatically renewed year after year.

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??? The system, if the broker wants to use it, is to issue stickers for 1 month at a time until re-registration is complete, and only give you the sticker for the full term of the policy once the French reg. no. has been issued and they have a copy of the carte grise. Pretty foolproof as you can't go around with an expired sticker so you have to keep going back to explain the delay and beg for extra time.
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Having lost one vehicle in a bad accident this year, the insurers, the police and the expert appointed to value the wreck were very very hot on the correct paperwork including upto date invoices for regular maintenance work carried out,the complete CT paperwork,insurance details etc and I would imagine any UK plated vehicle found not to be correct for use in France will have the book thrown at the owner regardless of who was driving it in case of any accidents. The onus would then be on the insurers of the other party to take legal action which could result badly for the mal-covered vehicle and driver, even a prison sentence.
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The answer is simple - nobody gives a damn.

A large percentage of brits simply dont give a damn - they just want to have cheap motoring and are willing to bend / flout / ignore whatever laws may stand in their way.

A large percentage of French police dont give a damn / know the correct procedures for dealing with foreign cars.

A large percentage of insurers dont give a damn - they just want the premiums to keep rolling in.

If the authorities cared - I mean were REALLY bothered, then a decent purge by the police on these cars would see 99% of them off the road, but nobody cares enough to start a large scale action that would take a lot of effort for little in the way of gain.

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Yes, I agree that it should be easy enough for the authorities to sort this out. Especially as so many brits live in small communities, or am I wrong there?

Trouble is as Coops mentioned, if there was an accident.  After an accident even when everything is fine and legal it can be messy, I dread to think what would happen if someone was driving illegally.

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Probably not a lot.

Regardless of whether it has been correctly administered or not the insurance will usually still be deemed valid insomuch as it meets the minimum requirements of 3rd party risks, if for no other reason than to deny it would expose the insurance companies who break the rules to all sorts of unwelcome attention.

Assuming a valid licence and CT then the actual offence seems to come down to the relatively minor one of not registering the car or keeping it in the country for longer than the permitted 6 months, neither a hanging matter and the fines for which probably equate to a fraction of the cost of registering !

It's said that in circumstances where insurance has been improperly obtained or conditions not observed that the insurance company can sue the client for their 3rd party losses. That is probably true however many people will be unwilling or unable to cough up without a fight which means legal action by the insurer, again carrying the risk of exposure, so I imagine it is only rarely followed up.

There are many ways to solve the problem, and at zero cost too. CT stations for instance could be issued an order prohibited them from testing an unregistered car for a second time. Not only would that catch 90% of refusenicks at a stroke but it would also mean that the vehicle would effectively be rendered scrap as without a CT the owner could neither continue to use it nor subsequently register it even if they wanted to.

A fitting punishment some might say but more pertinently an extremely strong incentive to do it properly in the beginning !

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The first couple of vehicles I brought over from the UK over a 2-3 year period were all insured with a French company and although the broker speaks very good English he never explained about the 6 month rule and just kept renewing the policy at it's anniversary. I learnt about the requirements to re register the UK vehicles in France from this forum. In fact the broker was upset when I no longer took French insurance on my UK cars. Not all of the owners of UK cars maybe guilty of this crime if their insurers are just taking the money and it's on record they are surely culpable too in this crime?
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[quote user="Théière"]The first couple of vehicles I brought over from the UK over a 2-3 year period were all insured with a French company and although the broker speaks very good English he never explained about the 6 month rule and just kept renewing the policy at it's anniversary. I learnt about the requirements to re register the UK vehicles in France from this forum. In fact the broker was upset when I no longer took French insurance on my UK cars. Not all of the owners of UK cars maybe guilty of this crime if their insurers are just taking the money and it's on record they are surely culpable too in this crime?[/quote]

To be fair to the broker, it is not his job to enforce the law on the import of vehicles. If you got a job as an insurance salesman in the UK, would you then feel that you need to study law to advise customers?

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[quote user="Repulse"]I saw the worst possible british evasion yesterday. A car in a supermarket car park near me. UK registration( S registration ) 07 tax disc, no CT or insurance on windscreen!!!

How bad is that !![/quote]

There is a 4x4 that has been driving around in my village with UK plates on it for 7 years now. It has no CT or MOT, I know as the owner told me. Not sure if he even has any insurance.

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Just to be awkward I have something controversial to say-

We  have two english cars both UK registered with Copeland insurers, agent is over here in France - Backus (?). The reason being when we first moved over here I registered my first english car with the french system, new number plates etc.... Everything went smoothly until I had an accident. I was visiting an english ladies house (feeding her animals) while she was in England, she lives in a no through road. It was boxing day (normal working day in France) Her road is  narrow so precaution is necessary, I have always driven very slowly and cautiously in the country, I was just about to turn  round the bend when I saw a flash of yellow. I guessed it was a car so stopped before the bend  (10 metres or so before bend) on the grass verge and waited for it to pass. Unfortunately this person was going too fast, she had only just passed her test on 'A '. She was helping out the post office during the xmas break. She came flying round the corner and 'bang' she not only hit me but managed to only hit my right hand light- that's how far over on the wrong side she was. She was very sorry and appologetic. I asked her why she was driving on the wrong side of the road, she replied and pointed it was too muddy!![8-)]  Because the only house down that road was my friends she just assumed it would be clear... We often cycle down that road, just thinking of what can happen makes me shudder. Or somebody on a horse... Because she was young did not make a big thing of it. I took loads of photo's, she admitted to liability. Her boss then came down from the local post office, fun and games started. He lied on the form, I can't remember the word. Will look it up later if anyone interested- quite a common trick apparantly.

When I spoke to my french Ins agent, he was so unhelpful. He said that they do not look at the form anyway or photo's. (?)  It was 50/50 that is the french law (?!!)  Unless you have witnesses or get the police involved, perhaps. I was going to lose my NCBonus for an accident that was not my fault. I was very upset. because my car was nearly 10 years old it was a write off.

My husband phoned Backus (based in Loire)  explained the situation, because we had used them before they let me have my new car with them without losing my NCB. They are easy to talk to and are not scared of speaking up for you when you need it. They had argued my case with Copeland and were very helpful. We now use both cars through them, still on English plates. It is a nuissance for the MOT but we live near the ports. When you move here it  make's sense to re register your car- until you have a dreaded accident...

We had another accident (on the way to the campsite, the dreadful weekend Suisse Normandie) in May this year. We were waiting in a filter lane to turn left, (we had sat there for about 15 seconds, busy road in Liseux) when bang, a car hit us at the back. Once again a young lad, on the dreaded 'A' plates- god know's what he was doing- he was either on his phone or looking in his glove compatrment(?) who know's . Again because our other car was old (very good condition) it was a write off. We could still drive it, but it was too damaged at the rear end, we could n't open the boot.  Once again the lad was genuinely upset and admitted 100% liability but this  time I phoned the police as I know it can change once the paper work is going through. This has stopped any funny business but we're still awaiting a cheque from the french (other insurers agent) - as they're all on holiday and apparantly no one is there to sign it!! So it is three months now since the accident, without being settled. It such an inconvenience and so stressful. For some mad reason we decided that it was not going to ruin the weekend and we would carry on to Suisse Normandie for a relaxing break ( that was a laugh) [:'(]

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Also, when you have a french car with their equivalent MOT you probably know  that it is for 2 years- this sounds great- as long as you sevice your car and check that the tyres are legal and not borderline everything will be fine. Me being a typical women  I never check my tyres and would n't know what was borderline- would you? - All is fine until you have an accident, the insurers will do anything to get out of the claim, the insurance investigator will look over your car with a fine comb, any excuse....

At least with an English MOT it is is every 12 months ,I feel happier knowing that my tyres are probably  legal and everything else is . It is just a pain going back to England...But is a good excuse to see family....And to buy my cheese and bacon!![:D]

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Good luck Sara.  In your shoes though I'd be excreting housebricks, concerned that the guilty party's insurance was going to refuse to pay me on the grounds that my car was illegal.  May to September is a long time.  After my accident I had the cheque for my car within  a month.

Still, it does prove the o/p's point.  It's very easy to get away with.

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"At least with an English MOT it is is every 12 months ,I feel happier knowing that my tyres are probably legal and everything else is . It is just a pain going back to England"

I'm almost speechless. Are you really saying that you never look at your tyres from one years' end to the next, and if it wasn't for it needing an MOT you would never take your car in for a service???
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No it is all going through, everything is above board. my point is I don't trust the french Insurance sytem. I am happier with the english Insurance. When I am in the right, I expect my agent to listen to me and fight my corner. To lose your NCB when it is not your fault is unfair. It has taken longer due to the other parties insurers doing the necessary paperwork. They have to liase and investigate that all paperwork is correct, which ofcourse it is. Then the paperwork to scrap the car had to be arranged. Everything takes time, but we have been assured it has all been agreed and they just need a signature on the cheque. I think we are a low priority.as my car  is under Euros 2,000
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Lambkin, not worded very well. My husband keeps an eye on everything but your right I never look at my car, I would n't know if the tyres were borderline or not [;-)] My hubbie services my car... He used to race motor bikes, so if very handy with anything mechanical.
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When I was in the UK and was hit by a woman on a back road, I lost my no claims.  She was on her mobile at the time but no proof so I got penalised.  However if somebody hits you up the *rse then it's generally accepted that it's their fault so I think that a French insurer would have paid out on that one too.  I have nothing but praise for mine who are screwing the lorry driver's insurance for all they can get.  They are paying to have my house adapted and have already shelled out a few thousand to cover all my expenses while the final prognosis for my injuries gets decided upon by the surgeons.  A lot depends upon the circumstances of the accident and how much can be proved.  I doubt that in any "my word agains their's" accident that you'd get a different outcome in the UK.

However, do what you feel comfortable with, just be sure that they'll pay out if you ever cause the kind of injuries the lorry driver did to me.  It's already approaching the 500,000€ mark in medical bills and home help alone (the state won't pay if there's a third party at fault.)[:-))]

EDIT : I'm not trying to have a pop at you personally, Sara - I know you have enough troubles as it is.  It's just that this is something I have truly been on the receiving end of and I'm just so relieved that the guilty party was legally insured because I just am not sure that I could have handled a legal battle on top of everything else.  Thus I feel much more comfortable as a road user if at least the other motorists are driving around with valid insurance.

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Wow, Cooperlola they sound really fair. Who are your Insurers? We used AGP in Calais, I must admit we used them as they speak fluent English, our french is quite good but sometimes it is easier and quicker to use english speaking agents. We were told, not sure if it is true, that if we were not in a filter lane it would have been 50/50 (?) that is the way it is over here, doesn't sound fair.

Cooperlola, just read your Edit- totally agree and understand. It makes me wild if people do not have valid insurance/ MOT docs. I know someone (English) NO insurance NO MOT, Fake driving licence!!! ( I have told him,if he is stopped he will be deported or put in prison) If he kills someone they will throw away the key....

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Wow-what a can of worms that small question opened up!

I have also seen UK plated cars with no CT or UK tax disks or french insurance and that worries me too.

We are insured with AXA locally-english speaking agent- and are happy with them.

I wonder if people would behave like this in the UK or only because they live abroad.
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