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cam belt


johnycarper
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Dont know about the garage cost although I suspect the UK would be half of that, I did the job myself on my VAG TDI 110cv and it was not too bad, the worst part was definitely the apprehension but when it came to the job itself, well I have encountered a lot worse, I certainly would have no reservations about doing another one.

The cost of the belt was about a fiver.

Bugbear is the one to know, he ran an independant VAG garage.

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I did the belt on my petrol 2.0i VW engine, piece of cake but I suppose the diesel engine is more complex. Cost me 17€ for the belt! I know that in the UK a friend paid in excess of £500 just recently for a service and cam belt change on a VW, at a main dealer.

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Seven hundred euros does not surprise me for a full service and cam belt change at a main dealer in France.

Its a shockingly high price for what you get, but its pretty much the norm for here.

I would suggest finding an independant garage or single mechanic who has a good reputation and getting them to do the job, unless you are worried about having a fully stamped dealership history. The belt change is not all that complicated for someone who knows what they are doing, parts prices are minimal and as for the service......see if you can find exactly what they claim to do. Most dealership "servicing" consists of basic visual inspection and an oil and filter change.

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In the distant past I used to sell and service marine generators, some of which used a Golf diesel engine.

To change a timing belt "by the book" required some special tools, including a dial indicator and attachment, which I purchased at no small expense. I sold them, together with the Service Manual, on eBay, a couple of years back.

I remember finding several engines which, following a belt change, had been timed by lining up chalk marks presumably made on the gears before the belt was removed. All of these were incorrectly timed, and one even had the pistons hitting the valves - I was called in because the engine was "rattling". Incredibly, when I pulled the head, there were just tiny marks on the pistons and the valves were not bent.

I don't recommend doing it "at home" unless you have the correct instructions and tools for the job.

Edit: I didn't charge anything like 700€, although generator engines are rather more accessible than those in cars.

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It does very much depend on the car. It's a pig of a job on my Mazda, although a garage with all the gear would be able to do it quicker than me on the drive! Keeps me out of mischief for a day.

The reason for changing the water pump at the same time is precisely because it's normally a time-consuming job which involves the same dismantling process. You wouldn't want to go to all that trouble (and expense through a garage), only to have to do most of it again if the pump fails a little while after you have changed the belt. Sames goes for idler pulley(s) and temsioner. That said, I have ignored my own advice so far and have changed belt twice and still have original water pump, pulleys, etc. But about to change again at 180k miles and this time the whole lot will be renewed, especially with winter looming. Not a job to do out in the freezing elements.

Your point about inaccurate timing marks Nomoss. My brother and I helped my son-in-law rebuild a cooked Daihatsu diesel engine recently in his Hi-jet van. We'd saved all the timing marks but they proved to be miles out. My engineer brother retimed it using a simple but clever device he made which he screwed into the ports and ran water through using clear plastic tubing to determine exact opening and closing points when flywheel turned. It runs better than ever now. Garages had told him that, despite van otherwise being perfect, it wasn't viable to repair the engine and suggested having it towed to nearest breakers yard.

 

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Personally I think it's folly to just replace a belt but if you must then sometimes a dirty way of doing it is to slice the old belt along it's length so that it is only about 1/2 the original width and then cut off the outer part completely.

This gives you space to 1/2 slip the new belt on after which you can cut the old one off altogether and slip the new one on fully.

Never tried it mind you !

On VW engines the water pump is often changed not only for the reasons given but also because some types have plastic impellers which are prone to breakage and it's a good opportunity to replace it with a metal impeller type.

Again on VAG cars, if you have the belt properly changed by a professional garage and using genuine parts, if it subsequently lets go within it's recommended lifetime, VAG will pay for the repairs.

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Its not so bad if you keep your hand in, if you have a break of even a few years and perhaps change cars during that time to a newer generation it can all look quite foreboding, in the past you would look under the bonnet of your new acquisition to see where everything was, assess the ease of access for the inevitable repairs etc, now even if you were to recognise a component you would have to remove tons of plastic covers etc to view it.

On the other hand we have to do far less repair work to modern cars, mine will be 10 years old in a couple of months and has done 450000kms,  it used to use maybe half a litre of oil between oil changes, after 350000 the rings finally bedded in and now it uses none, - probably due to not changing the oil for over 18 months!

Last week I had to top up the brake fluid, the first time in 9 years, the fluid still passes a test every year as does the coolant and hence both have never been changed.

The only replacements I have ever done is a bi-mass flywheel and the cam belt, oil changes and brake pads of course plus I finally changed the discs last year, everything else is original, battery, exhaust etc, but for the flywheel the vehicle would have been completely faultless during its life to date.

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[quote user="Alan Zoff"]

 My engineer brother retimed it using a simple but clever device he made which he screwed into the ports and ran water through using clear plastic tubing to determine exact opening and closing points when flywheel turned. [/quote]

Presumably didn't have a dial test indicator [:)]

At least some of the major engine manufacturers are switching back to timing chains

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Thanks for all the replies must admit did not understand a lot of it and just checking the quote it does include a water pump as well,I think its a question of biting the bullet as they say and getting it done.We are off to the uk for a holiday soon and would hate for anything to go wrong.

john

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Where the pump forms part of the cam belt train, as in the case of VW engines and likely many others, it will be subject to the same stresses as the other pulleys and tensioners so logically if they are changed with the belt - as they should be - so should the pump be replaced.

For the £25 or so it actually cost's it's a complete false economy not to.

Out of interest a lot of people seem to think that widespread use of cam belts is some insidious plot by the manufacturers to build in a fatal weak spot to generate income but the truth of the matter is far less sinister. When overhead cam engines started to become the norm the length of the chain required to drive them became something of a problem with wear, maintaining tension (and thus cam timing accuracy) plus lubrication, so was the belt born - in UK on the 1967 Vauxhall FD Victor to be precise - the fact that the chain is making a comeback in some engines is down to better engineering processes and tolerances and oil technology.

Still don't like the damn things though !

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I fitted a belt conversion to my old A series cooper to shut up the timing chain rattle and to save weight [:)]

Depending on how close to the change point O/P is I could be very tempted to wait and get it changed in the UK whilst on holiday. A good way to save €300. Nice on holiday [:)]

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JC's post is spookily timely for me!

Only yesterday morning I phoned the local VW main dealer to book our Golf in for a service. Same situation - returning to the UK for Christmas and wanting to be sure that nothing goes wrong.

On telling them that it was a 120k service, they told me that the courroie de distribution would need changing. Presumably this is the cam belt?  Would someone also advise what a water pump is in French so that I can pose that question re replacement at the same time? 

This isn't going to be cheap.[:(]       

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[quote user="Gardian"]On telling them that it was a 120k service, they told me that the courroie de distribution would need changing. Presumably this is the cam belt?[/quote]Yes, but when was it changed last, just saying 120k is relatively meaningless.

Which model Golf is it. Commonly it's every 4 years or every XXX km, your service booklet will tell how many.that is ?

I wouldn't get too paranoid about going over, whilst nobody can ever guarantee anything, there is a huge safety margin built in to manufacturers recommendations. How long could a manufacturer last if they said  60,000km for instance and their belts regularly snapped at 65 or even 70,000 ?

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[quote user="AnOther"]

[quote user="Gardian"]On telling them that it was a 120k service, they told me that the courroie de distribution would need changing. Presumably this is the cam belt?[/quote]Yes, but when was it changed last, just saying 120k is relatively meaningless.

Which model Golf is it. Commonly it's every 4 years or every XXX km, your service booklet will tell how many.that is ?

I wouldn't get too paranoid about going over, whilst nobody can ever guarantee anything, there is a huge safety margin built in to manufacturers recommendations. How long could a manufacturer last if they said  60,000km for instance and their belts regularly snapped at 65 or even 70,000 ?

[/quote]

It's never been changed and yes, the Service booklet does say that it needs changing at 120k. It's a 7yo Golf V.

You're absolutely right about not getting too paranoid about it, but it's not you who'd have to spend Christmas (and future Christmas's!) with Mrs G if something avoidable went wrong that could have been fixed upfront. These sort of things always happen at 16.00 on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of nowhere when you're on your way to the ferry.

Thanks for your input anyway: at least I've got some feel for the likely size of the bill.  I'll ring beforehand though and get a proper estimate.  Only trouble is that I'll have to talk to the Service Receptionist: nice lady, but she speaks with one of the strongest Provencal accents that I've heard and at a terrifying speed.  I keep telling her to slow down a bit, but it doesn't work!   

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