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dave21478
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I just took my newly-upgraded Garmin out with us as we went out for oysters and fish at the seaside. I didn't have a destination put into the GPS - so I was just using it as a moving map display. On the approach to where I knew there to be a camera ... nothing. Just as we passed the camera, however, the Garmin flashed up "dangerous zone", which it then continued to do for another km or two until we reached a roundabout. Maybe there are some teething issues ...

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[quote user="Pickles"]I just took my newly-upgraded Garmin out with us as we went out for oysters and fish at the seaside. I didn't have a destination put into the GPS - so I was just using it as a moving map display. On the approach to where I knew there to be a camera ... nothing. Just as we passed the camera, however, the Garmin flashed up "dangerous zone", which it then continued to do for another km or two until we reached a roundabout. Maybe there are some teething issues ...

[/quote]

Some of those roundabouts can be dangerous you know [Www][:D][:D]

.

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[quote user="Pickles"]I just took my newly-upgraded Garmin out with us as we went out for oysters and fish at the seaside. I didn't have a destination put into the GPS - so I was just using it as a moving map display. On the approach to where I knew there to be a camera ... nothing. Just as we passed the camera, however, the Garmin flashed up "dangerous zone", which it then continued to do for another km or two until we reached a roundabout. Maybe there are some teething issues ...

[/quote]

Don't know if it's and issue or not but several years back I seem to remember tomtom's doing something similar unless a route was put in at which point it would behave itself

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[quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote user="Pickles"]
The official decree was published on 3rd Jan 2012:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000025083522&categorieLien=id
The decree inserts new and amended text into the code de la route:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=29990101&categorieLien=cid
and concerns the banning of devices that tell you where equipment is located that is used to establish breaches of the code de la route (my rough translation).[/quote]

Thanks Pickles, greatly appreciated.

Translation below;

[quote]Article R413-15
Amended by Decree No. 2012-3 of January 3, 2012 - art. 22

 I. - The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class.


 Having to use a machine, device or product of the same nature is the same penalties.


 II. - This device, this device or product is entered. When the machine, device or product is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle, this vehicle can also be entered.


 III. - Any person guilty of an offense under this section is liable also the following additional penalties:


 1 ° The additional penalty of suspension for a period of three years at most, driver's license, the suspension may be limited to driving outside professional activity;


 2 ° confiscation of the vehicle when the device was used or intended to commit the offense is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle.


 Any conviction automatically leads to the confiscation of the device that was used or intended to commit the offense.


 IV. - This ticket gives rise automatically to the reduction of six points in the driver's license.


V. - The provisions of this Article shall also apply to products or devices to warn or inform the location of equipment, instruments or systems used for finding violations of the law or regulation of traffic.[/quote]

 "The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class."

Well, there we are! A tad ambiguous, confusing and open to misinterpretation perhaps?

[/quote]

The french version is OK, at least it made sense when I read it last tuesday; but the english version does seem ambiguous though.

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But then I adore google translations;

hallii - 2012-01-07 4:34 PM

Here is a gtranslation using Google of:-

http://anti-radar.org/r413-15-code-de-la-route-interdiction-avertisseur-radar-2012/

The Decree No. 2012-3 of 3 January 2012 on various road safety measures which establishes the prohibition of warning radars is applicable from January 5, 2012

I. - The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class.

[:D]

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[quote user="pachapapa"][quote user="Salty Sam"]

[quote user="Pickles"]
The official decree was published on 3rd Jan 2012:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000025083522&categorieLien=id
The decree inserts new and amended text into the code de la route:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=29990101&categorieLien=cid
and concerns the banning of devices that tell you where equipment is located that is used to establish breaches of the code de la route (my rough translation).[/quote]

Thanks Pickles, greatly appreciated.

Translation below;

[quote]Article R413-15
Amended by Decree No. 2012-3 of January 3, 2012 - art. 22

 I. - The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class.


 Having to use a machine, device or product of the same nature is the same penalties.


 II. - This device, this device or product is entered. When the machine, device or product is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle, this vehicle can also be entered.


 III. - Any person guilty of an offense under this section is liable also the following additional penalties:


 1 ° The additional penalty of suspension for a period of three years at most, driver's license, the suspension may be limited to driving outside professional activity;


 2 ° confiscation of the vehicle when the device was used or intended to commit the offense is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle.


 Any conviction automatically leads to the confiscation of the device that was used or intended to commit the offense.


 IV. - This ticket gives rise automatically to the reduction of six points in the driver's license.


V. - The provisions of this Article shall also apply to products or devices to warn or inform the location of equipment, instruments or systems used for finding violations of the law or regulation of traffic.[/quote]

 "The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class."

Well, there we are! A tad ambiguous, confusing and open to misinterpretation perhaps?

[/quote]

The french version is OK, at least it made sense when I read it last tuesday; but the english version does seem ambiguous though.

[/quote]

Edit:: Additionn of link to Art 415-13 of the Code de la route. for your perusal in clarifying apparent ambiguities.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006842205

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After reading the Kent police definition, this is still as clear as mud to me, and ambiguous: [8-)]
surely TomTom position of speed cameras are nothing more than plots on a map, the device is not likely to detect the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems ? No more than it is able to tell where a road junction is that has been changed?
It is information specific to the (oft out of date) download on the individual sat nav map at one specific date?
data already in the public domain - surely no different to a passenger pointing out 'Camera ahead'[blink] (I get this as well as TomToms alert)[:D]
Tom Tom is not a radar device nor giving out a signal that could be detected.
Isn't this regulation aimed only at Radar devices capable of detecting new or mobile speed cameras?

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[quote user="just john "]

After reading the Kent police definition, this is still as clear as mud to me, and ambiguous: [8-)]
surely TomTom position of speed cameras are nothing more than plots on a map, the device is not likely to detect the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems ? No more than it is able to tell where a road junction is that has been changed?
It is information specific to the (oft out of date) download on the individual sat nav map at one specific date?
data already in the public domain - surely no different to a passenger pointing out 'Camera ahead'[blink] (I get this as well as TomToms alert)[:D]
Tom Tom is not a radar device nor giving out a signal that could be detected.
Isn't this regulation aimed only at Radar devices capable of detecting new or mobile speed cameras?

[/quote]

Exactly JJ.

I've been on the phone to a friend of mine from Kent police. The link is out of date by almost 12 months and, as you correctly point out, is designed to draw attention to the use of Radar detectors which have always been illegal.

Unfotunately some people contributing here, don't appear to know the difference between active radar detectors and GPS navigational instruments.

[quote user="pachapapa "]

Edit:: Additionn of link to Art 415-13 of the Code de la route. for your perusal in clarifying apparent ambiguities.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006842205

[/quote]

Perhaps it might be a good idea as the built in translator in Chrome apparently is not up to scratch, for PPP to provide a translation without apparent ambiguities?

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[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="just john "]

After reading the Kent police definition, this is still as clear as mud to me, and ambiguous: [8-)]

surely TomTom position of speed cameras are nothing more than plots on a map, the device is not likely to detect the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems ? No more than it is able to tell where a road junction is that has been changed?

It is information specific to the (oft out of date) download on the individual sat nav map at one specific date?

data already in the public domain - surely no different to a passenger pointing out 'Camera ahead'[blink] (I get this as well as TomToms alert)[:D]

Tom Tom is not a radar device nor giving out a signal that could be detected.

Isn't this regulation aimed only at Radar devices capable of detecting new or mobile speed cameras?

[/quote]

Exactly JJ.

I've been on the phone to a friend of mine from Kent police. The link is out of date by almost 12 months and, as you correctly point out, is designed to draw attention to the use of Radar detectors which have always been illegal.

Unfotunately some people contributing here, don't appear to know the difference between active radar detectors and GPS navigational instruments.

[quote user="pachapapa "]

Edit:: Additionn of link to Art 415-13 of the Code de la route. for your perusal in clarifying apparent ambiguities.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006842205

[/quote][/quote]

I think you may be looking at the wrong part of the text: the relevant part is:

V. - Les dispositions du présent article sont également applicables aux

dispositifs ou produits visant à avertir ou informer de la localisation

d'appareils, instruments ou systèmes servant à la constatation des

infractions à la législation ou à la réglementation de la circulation

routière. (my italics)

The rest of the text - which uses the verb deceler (to detect) and bans radar detectors and the like, has been in force since 2003. The above addition extends the ban to systems that alert you to the position of cameras etc.

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[quote user="Pickles"][V. - Les dispositions du présent article sont également applicables aux dispositifs ou produits visant à avertir ou informer de la localisation d'appareils, instruments ou systèmes servant à la constatation des infractions à la législation ou à la réglementation de la circulation routière. (my italics)

The rest of the text - which uses the verb deceler (to detect) and bans radar detectors and the like, has been in force since 2003. The above addition extends the ban to systems that alert you to the position of cameras etc.


[/quote]  Thank you for that, Pickles - much clearer now - I confess I was losing the will to live.  I am not in the mood at the moment to trawl through lots of stuff to get to the salient point so thanks for doing it for me (us.)[:)]
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Or put another way,

V. - Les dispositions du présent article sont également applicables aux dispositifs ou produits visant à avertir ou informer de la localisation d'appareils, instruments ou systèmes servant à la constatation des infractions à la income de revenue pour le short ass Sarkozy et amis [:)]

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  • 2 weeks later...
Just read this thread and seen the actual wording of this barmy piece of legislation for the first time.  

<<......V. - Les dispositions du présent article sont également applicables aux

dispositifs ou produits visant à avertir ou informer de la localisation

d'appareils, instruments ou systèmes servant à la constatation des

infractions à la législation ou à la réglementation de la circulation

routière.>>

Does this mean it will be equally illegal for me to drive around with my map book (bought a year or so ago on service station on the A10) which has the locations of all the fixed cameras marked on it?

It most assuredly informs me of their position just as well as a Tomtom does.!

p

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Having used canaries in tunnels for methane detection; they get drowsy, loose their balance and end up upside down still hanging from their perches.

The perches should be designed so that if the canary is dead it can be gently slipped off the perch; thus avoiding having to cut the little feet off to remove it.

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