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Purchase just completed - Confused!!!


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Hi everyone,

Am pretty new to the forum, so be gentle with me!

We've just completed on the purchase of our property in France and there are a few things I'm not sure of what the next steps are or what I should do next, so any advice would be gratefully received.

There are two main things I'm looking for advice on:

  1. On the day of completion the imobiliare took the water meter reading and said she would write a letter to the Maire showing the reading on the day we took ownership. But, how will we now be billed for water rates, is it quarterly or annually? Can I request that the bill is sent to my UK address as we wont be permanent residents in France for a few years yet and I don't want a bill to be sat unpaid on the doormat for a few months whilst we're not there.
  2. The second thing I'm a bit unsure of are the local taxes, habitation and fonciere. I know these are paid in January each year, but again this is a time of the year when we're unlikely to be in France, so can these bills be sent to my UK address? Also I believe that with the tax d'habitation the rates of tax vary slightly for second homes and primary residences etc and that there is an option to opt out of the TV licencing element if you do not have a TV at the property. Who and how do I inform about my circumstances to make sure I'm paying the correct level of tax, is it just a visit to the Maire?

OK, I think I've rambled on enough there! I don't know if it will make a difference, but the property is in the Correze, dept 19.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

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It's possible to get all your bills sent to your UK address (we do) but may require a bit of  running around.

In the first instance, check with your immo and notaire (if necessary) to find out who they have notified on your behalf. If they've told the right people AND provided them with your UK address as your primary residence, there's a chance you may be OK.

Otherwise, visit your local Tresor Public ( if you don't know where it is, ask the immo or at the mairie), and explain to them that you've just bought your house (take all documents from your "O" level certificate, through your 25 yard swimming cert, marriage, birth....) Seriously, just take proof of ID and your house purchase docs..nothing excites a French civil servant like a good wad of documents. They should be able to amend their records (if not already correct) to ensure that you get your tax bills sent to the UK.

As for the TV, when you get your bills, or a little before (I can't remember) you should receive - to your UK address - an opt-out form to avoid paying TV licence if you have no telly. As it's an opt-out, rather than an opt-in, look out for this form and fill it in as instructed. If you still get charged, then hopefully another visit to your local Tresor should sort it out.

Be aware that in some places, you pay separately and to a separate organisation for the collection of your household rubbish. Your mairie should be able to tell you if this is the case, who invoices you, how and when, and you may need to contact these people as well regarding sending your bills to the UK. Likewise with your water bills: check who your supplier is, what the immo has told them and then either visit the local office or send them a letter, recorded delivery (it's the only way...)

EDF will also send your bills to the UK.

As a P.S.... some will tell you that you can pay many of these bills online. You can. Others will suggest direct debit. It is my personal opinion that if you can avoid giving your bank details out to French companies, you will be glad in the long run. In France, unlike the UK, if you dispute a bill, you are expected to pay and then argue the toss afterwards, and because you've already paid, the supplier can take as long as they like (if they ever bother) to resolve your dispute. If you try to withhold payment form a supplier who has your bank details, you can't. They will just help themselves, and keep on doing so until they want to stop, or you find a way to stop them.

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Property taxes aren't paid in Jan. They're paid Oct/Nov/Dec depending on dept, usually in 2 successive months. They're paid in arrears by the person who was there on 1 Jan, so you won't be billed until the 4th quarter of 2015. However it is normal to share the foncière, but if you weren't asked, so much the better.
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Hello Explorer and welcome to the forum.

You certainly can have the bills sent to your UK address. That's what I have always done. Of course, the risk is that you might be at your FRENCH house sometimes when the bills arrive! I have set up direct debits for my utilities and the taxes d'habitation and foncière, so they are spread through the year.

For all this, you need to write to each of the utility companies and tax offices to give them your address. It's so long ago that I last organised it that I am afraid I can't remember how I did it. I don't think it's anything to do with the Mairie though.

It's essential to open a French bank account, if you have not already done so. And be careful never to let it run out of funds, as overdrawing is a serious matter in France and the bank will close your account and blacklist you for several years.

Angela
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You will have to write to the Mairie and ask for your water bill to be sent to you UK address. Hopefully they will do this.

Water bills vary, we used to get one a year and then two a year but the second one was based on the previous years reading and we had to pay half of that sum towards the future reading.

Taxe d'hab and taxe fonciere are not paid in January each year. These bills are based on who lives in or if empty owns the property on the 1st of January each year.

The taxe d'hab uses as a base the family situation from the income tax declaration, so it can vary and more than slightly.

Re the taxe fonciere, it is common practice for the purchaser to pay for the rest of the year they own the property and is done by counting the days in the year each will have owned the property, and then worked out on the taxe fonciere bill from the previous year.

The bills for both taxes usually arrive in summer or early autumn and you can look on the impots france web site at the 'calendrier' and it tells you the date that all declarations and bills are due.

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Where we live the Mairie has nothing to do with the water bills - it's a separate organisation called Syndicate des Eaux Masseube. I think the payments go to the Tresor Public - not sure as the payment slip goes with the cheque.

And I agree with Betty about being very careful before giving utilities your bank details . Especially Orange/France Telecom, who often make mistakes (in our experience.)

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[quote user="Patf"]Where we live the Mairie has nothing to do with the water bills - it's a separate organisation called Syndicate des Eaux Masseube. I think the payments go to the Tresor Public - not sure as the payment slip goes with the cheque.

And I agree with Betty about being very careful before giving utilities your bank details . Especially Orange/France Telecom, who often make mistakes (in our experience.)

[/quote]?

All seconded.  Also, did you not receive an attestation from the notaire, with a breakdown of all the parts that add up to the sum of money you paid?

For example, it should say what taxes you paid, the notaire's fees, etc.

Somewhere in there, it should say what proportion of taxe fonciere you paid.  I have just sold a house in the last month and the notaire billed the purchasers for the rest of the year's taxe fonciere and explained to us that when the bill for the tax arrived, it would be our responsibility to pay it, the purchasers having already paid their share.

As for the taxe d'habitation, you are not liable to pay any of it this year.  Whoever is the owner of the property on 1st January pays for the whole year.

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As Pat, direct with the water supplier and nothing to do do with the Mairie.

We spend most of our time in the UK and have opted for direct debit - no worry if for any reason the bill fails to make it through or it is delayed OR the organisations says 'we did not receive the cheque.

Applied for taxes fonciere and d'habitation to be paid via DD. Fonciere no problem but not d'hab. Eventually got both via DD.

Best of luck.
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Setting up a DD for the local taxes can be a nuisance if/when you sell the house, as it takes the authorities quite some time to get their information up-to-date.

After paying the first time by cheque or prelèvement you can register, receive the bills, and pay the taxes on line.

This also gives you the opportunity to see the bills as early as possible and advise them of any errors.

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Missing a payment or not is not the point.

You have authorised someone to take what they see fit to take from your account. Remember that as Betty says they can just take a disputed amount at will

Once they have  done that it is up to you to try to recover it. If you pay by cheque or virement they have to ask by means of a bill.

It's a simple question of whom you prefer to be in charge.

I had a good example of this 3 years ago when Lyonnaise des Eaux wrongly

started to take 350€ a month from my account  and refused to listen to

reason. That is when I cancelled my prélèvement (they couldn't stop

supplying water since these payments are in advance so at that point I

didn't owe them anything)

However if you do choose to pay by Prélèvements there is now a new system in operation..

http://www.quechoisir.org/argent-assurance/banque-credit/service-bancaire/autre-prelevement-sepa-les-bons-reflexes

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Graham and Brenda wrote There are so many scare stories about direct debits. Perhaps I'm just lucky - never a problem in 10 years in France or as long as I can remember in the UK before that. Plus, I never miss a payment.

That's the point, really. There are many scare stories. I've witnessed at first hand just how scary these stories can be. I personally became involved with trying to help friends sort out the mess (not of their making) when a French organisation decided to keep helping itself to the contents of their bank account. I helped them when they had to start selling their tools and furniture to put food on the table, and when the Assistante Sociale told them that they could have a handout of €23 to tide them over (a family of five) during the Christmas period. They became good friends with the Huissier. He even used to let himself in and put the kettle on, and yes, he openly admitted that his visits were pointless, but he was duty-bound to attend.

It probably never happens, and won't happen, to the majority of people, and I hope it never happens to you. From my point of view, I prefer to be in control of what goes out of my bank account, when and to whom.

Oh, and I never miss a payment, either. But nor do I have to remember to stop payments or have to make an effort to withhold them if I dispute a bill.

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Did you look at my link above?

La manière de mettre fin au passage du prélèvement change également.

Alors qu’auparavant il fallait révoquer un prélèvement régulier auprès

de votre fournisseur et de votre banque, il suffit désormais de révoquer

ce prélèvement auprès du fournisseur, de préférence par courrier envoyé

en recommandé avec accusé de réception. Cette révocation peut se faire à

tout moment.

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[quote user="AnOther"]I've had no problems either and even before the new rules if something did go wrong you could go

into your bank and cancel a DD on demand so whomever it was couldn't take

any more.[/quote]

I'm pleased for you. However, the family to whom I was referring above had significant problems in that regard, too. To the extent that their bank was questioning family members living close by with regard to their financial situation and their whereabouts, and they ended up opening an account at another bank as they believed that their bank would put a stop on their account if the added any funds to it. They didn't default on any bills and paid off all their creditors before leaving France, but at least at the very end they had managed to take control of their own money. Oh, and cancelling DD's seemed to have little or no effect on what the bank chose to do with their money.

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[quote user="You can call me Betty"] Oh, and cancelling DD's seemed to have little or no effect on what the bank chose to do with their money.

[/quote]

Yes, had all of that, the details of which I won't recount as it's still all too painful and will get me really cross.

Even after we CLOSED our account, CA continued to pay out DDs on the basis that we didn't cancel the individual DDs at the same time as closing our account!  And OF COURSE they then pursued us for all the charges for being overdrawn, the money that we purportedly owed and sent for us like naughty children to the head teacher's office.

I don't know about the present situation but, in those days, the charge for cancelling DDs was 13 euros each.

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Don't forget this is about someone taking a relatively large sum unexpectedly. Stopping the prélèvement after that is bolting the stable door, plus may throw all the rest of your payments out of sync, since you may not have enough in that account  left to pay them.

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Thanks everyone for the advice!

Our notaire did provide an attestation with a breakdown of all costs, and

we've not been asked to pay for any of the tax fonciere for the remainder of

the year - the previous owner had paid both taxes for a full year?

I've now spoken to EDF and have set up an account with them and arranged for

all bills to be received electronically and have set up a DD for payments - but

this was before reading some of your responses about DD's in France? Has anyone

had trouble with EDF taking unauthorised or unexpected payments?

I'm not currently in France and will next be over in a couple of weeks time

when hopefully I can go and visit the Mairie to sort out the water

bill and also try and speak to someone about taxes for the next year. There is

a Centre des Impôts - Trésor public office in the little town we’ve bought in,

so I guess they’ll be my first port of call for this?

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A couple of things which I don’t think have been mentioned.

The Tresor Publique will assume that you have a television and charge you for a licence unless you tell them otherwise..

We also had minor problems that EDF couldn’t access our meter when we aren’t there. We eventually had a little gizmo fitted so that it could be read from outside.

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[quote user="Explorer450"]

Thanks everyone for the advice!

Our notaire did provide an attestation with a breakdown of all costs, and

we've not been asked to pay for any of the tax fonciere for the remainder of

the year - the previous owner had paid both taxes for a full year?

I've now spoken to EDF and have set up an account with them and arranged for

all bills to be received electronically and have set up a DD for payments - but

this was before reading some of your responses about DD's in France? Has anyone

had trouble with EDF taking unauthorised or unexpected payments?

I'm not currently in France and will next be over in a couple of weeks time

when hopefully I can go and visit the Mairie to sort out the water

bill and also try and speak to someone about taxes for the next year. There is

a Centre des Impôts - Trésor public office in the little town we’ve bought in,

so I guess they’ll be my first port of call for this?

[/quote]

OK, replying in the order in which you have posed your questions.

The owner will not receive the bill for the taxes until later this year.  You do not pay in arrears, you are billed for the present year.  Unless they are extra generous, don't be surprised if you get asked to pay your share of the taxe foncière for the present year (2014) a few months down the line.

No, never had problems with EDF in this regard.  They will read the meter at least once a year and I have found that they are about the only utilities company that I don't mind (and do) have a DD with.  They also send you a bill a good fortnight before taking out any money so that you have a chance to check your bank account in good time and regularise it if necessary.

Yes, good move as the mairie will be able to give you information as to who is responsible for water supplies and give you a number to contact.

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I had problems with Lyonnaise des Eaux for the water as I have already posted, and to a lesser extent with the EDF, in the sense that they estimated wrongly and took far too much, but as the amounts concerned weren't enormous I wasn't too inconvenienced. I could have been however, and the principle stands.

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