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Hi and a few questions....


CJ
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In my opinion the need to warn people of the reality of moving to France and hoping to earn a good living wage from running gites or chambres d’Hotes is more important now than it ever was.

Over the past few months I’ve read far too many post from people intending to do just that. The trouble is most of them are doing it as a last minute attempt to get into Europe before 31/12/20. Reading a lot of these posts makes it quite clear that very few of these newcomers have a clue about France, the language or the simple fact that holiday accommodation needs to be located where holidaymakers want to go. Buying a big cheap house off the beaten track isn’t going to attract the regular custom and high prices that these businesses need to survive. Over the years people have come (and gone) and there has always been the safety net that as EU citizens when the business struggles they can offer yoga knitting, dog walking or some other pocket money earning enterprise to keep the family fed. Brexit will change all that. These newcomers will probably tick enough boxes to be given a one year CdS but that’s not the end of the road. Their business will be under scrutiny every year and it will have to be seen to be providing a living income year on year as each CdS renewal passes until the five year point is reached. A well placed business with plenty of investment might achieve that easily, a badly run wreck in the middle of nowhere won’t. If after five years the third nation entrepreneurs can’t prove that they can pay their way in France they will have to leave. That’s a big deal. Perhaps they are all super-dooper businesspeople who have made a fortune running perfect businesses in the U.K. in the past who will have the financial wherewithal in their (French) bank accounts to persuade the authorities to allow them to stay but I doubt it.

I must also add that I’m always amazed by these people who arrive in a foreign country with very different rules, regulations and systems, not to mention the language, yet know that they will succeed where others have not. Never mind, the higher they go the harder they fall.
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I'm afraid you're right, Bib. I've been amazed over the last few months by the number of people who have decided to move to France, but don't know where (and ask for recommendations), don't speak the language, know nothing about health care provision, taxation, ... It seems everyone has just panicked.

As someone said above, it all makes work for the immobilier.
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Well B&B, I have been saying all that since since I joined forums about 5 years ago.

I just got called an idiot....mostly by people who have either moved back now or profit from people moving to France.

These people did not like to hear the truth.

The most important thing you wrote was 'they have not got a clue about France'.

They don't. Pure and simple. They just see cheap houses compared to the UK.....particularly in expat areas....where they move to.....to avoid immigration in the UK. LOL.

What they don't realise is that they are not cheap. Even if they are free they are not cheap.

Houses in France are more or as expensive as the UK. Fact !. Throw in the cost of living and France is out of price for the types that move. They don't realise that.

Now throw in the French economic situation, high level of crime and delinquency and France is not really an attractive option to move to unless you 'love' France. That is before we start talking (excuse the pun) about language.

I am sure it is easy to watch BFM news or other French news channels from the UK. People looking to move to France really need to do that. Would they still move ? Of course they would because they still think houses are cheap. They can sell their semi in Milton Keynes and buy big stoney house with a big garden, pool, gîte and have Provence blue shutters and live off a tourist income.

Then what ? You walk the dog. Watch Sky news and countdown and complain about French paint for the rest of your life.

You then get old and go to a French peoples home.

Do they know how much Ephads cost per month in France ? Have they planned that in ?

Anyway, let's see what happens after Brexit. If the French economy is affected (thinking fishing) the shît is going to hit the fan for us Brits.

Chancer will be alright with his pallets and tyre business though. Personally I would sell Viagra as well and as a sideline.
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Eurotr@sh wrote:

"So what is your view Lehaut on how to respond on forums when people appear to have impossible dreams, should you say But but but, or should you look the other way and leave them to it?"

To the overall plan express in vague terms I would have to look the other way and leave them to it. From what I have seen on the Forum (this is the only one I am on) is that the dreamers post once, get answered and never come back again. I have only PM'd one dreamer and was inundated with requests for information, never again!

If there is a specific area I have had personal experience in (the OP point about plans and architects) I would offer my hard won experience. I have a horror of running any type of business as I have no experience/idea how any of them make money. So in these areas I keep quiet.

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[quote user="Chancer"]

Its been an interesting experience being paid not to work and having to turn away business or price myself out of what tiny market that has reappeared in order not to exceed 50% of last years monthly or average turnover or effectively be fined €1500 for doing so.[/quote]

I looked at your place on Booking and was surprised at the prices.

EDIT: Your post might help some dreamers back to reality, but they would need to know more detail about your efforts, and some have put so much effort for so long into their dreams that they have so totally convinced themselves, that nothing will convince them until they find out from experience.

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[quote user="Lehaut"] .................... I have only PM'd one dreamer and was inundated with requests for information, never again![/quote]

Snap. But I didn't learn from the first time.[:(]

[quote user="Lehaut"]  ............. I have a horror of running any type of business as I have no experience/idea how any of them make money. So in these areas I keep quiet.[/quote]

I was lucky to have some experience of office work and how businesses operate, mainly from holiday work when a student, and a couple of useful admin courses one of my employers sent me to, but we struggled with bumf and accounting for the first couple of years.

I'm afraid many people have no idea, and either pay professionals far too much to run their business for them, or do it all wrong.

Our gestor (Spanish business administrator) once told me that most of her Brit clients brought her all their invoices and other paperwork loose, in cardboard boxes, so her staff had to sort and identify them before they could even begin. She said we were the only client she had who kept our own books and used her services just to verify them and make the returns for VAT, and our and employee taxes and SS contributions.

I got a phone call one day from the female half of a husband and wife company who ran their business from an old shelter in one of the marinas, They had done some work for us a couple of years earlier: "Do you have a copy of our invoice? We are being inspected by the tax people, and for some reason they want to see all the invoices we have received and written. No-one told us about this, it's ridiculous, how can they expect us to keep all that paper?

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"I got a phone call one day from the female half of a husband and wife company who ran their business from an old shelter in one of the marinas, They had done some work for us a couple of years earlier: "Do you have a copy of our invoice? We are being inspected by the tax people, and for some reason they want to see all the invoices we have received and written. No-one told us about this, it's ridiculous, how can they expect us to keep all that paper?"

That is exactly the sort of thing I feel people should be given a heads up on but no matter how tactfully I try to put it, often it doesn't go down well.

I agree that making mistakes and learning from them is all part of the experience but some mistakes are costly. If in your innocence you have been breaking the rules for a year or more and the fisc pick up on it, you can't go back in time and unbreak them. You will be fined and possibly worse.

At the same time there is a cynical part of me that says, People are very sharp at finding out what grants and benefits and exemptions they can claim without being led by the hand, so why should they need leading by the hand to show them their obligations?

But sometimes it does feel like watching a child playing with matches.
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@the OP

As I said at the outset, and subsequently supported by others, you are required to submit your plans through an architect.  From your posts it would appear that you may already have some plans drawn up.  If that is the case, then you could always approach a French registered architect to see if they would sign them off for you and submit the planning application, obviously at a cost.

You seemed to be suggesting also that a fosse septique would be down the line in the renovation process.  I may have misunderstood that, but you should be aware, and your notaire may/should have told you that a new purchaser has a year to instal or bring up to standard a fosse septique.

In our area (Dordogne) the authority for overseeing fosse installation and conformity is SPANC (Service Public d’Assainissement Non Collectif).

We have a new neighbour (English) who bought the property as a second home a year ago.  They recently submitted a planning application which was bounced back asking for a certificate for the fosse.  They still haven't got a complying fosse and their application is stalled till they conform.

I add this as a consideration for you.

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[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Chancer"]

Its been an interesting experience being paid not to work and having to turn away business or price myself out of what tiny market that has reappeared in order not to exceed 50% of last years monthly or average turnover or effectively be fined €1500 for doing so.[/quote]

I looked at your place on Booking and was surprised at the prices.


[/quote]

 

If you looked recently then unless it was at the beginning of a month then the prices will be deliberately high to put off any potential customers that might be out there, not that there are any but I am just being carefull.

 

If I take (declare) one centime more than 50% of either the figure for that month last year or the average monthly figure (you pick the highest) then I will lose the €1500 bung from the fonds de solidarité, its why I say I am being paid not to work.

 

Pretty much the only company sending people here to work have been a saviour to me this summer, they booked 2 apparts for 11 days straight at the end on September just going into October, I had to do a deal with them to split the invoicing between the two months or refuse their custom, so the part carried over plus the one long term rented appartment (a student aged 14 [:-))]) plus one 3 day rental means I cannot accept any more bookings this month, unlike others I cannot take the money and remain closed so I have to use demand pricing.

 

The recently built 60 room Hôtel Ibis that is usually at 100% from June through to November and always at 100% in July and August close down for the whole of July & August & passed on the one or two bookings they had to people like me, they only re-opened at the end of September and then only Monday - Thursday & they are at about 10% capacity those days.

 

Last year there were 105 hotel rooms in the town, now there are only 19 of which maybe 3 or 4 are booked at weekends & the Ibis adding 60 in the week of which 5 or 6 are let.
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@ Chancer

Rather than being paid to stay empty, why not be paid to house migrants ? You are in the right area.

i'm thinking woman, families etc.

Surely that is a better way of spending the governments money. In fact, I am amazed the French government does not do this.

There must be a way of registering your business to offer such services to the local authorities. You are a perfect choice because you can speak both languages.

You could turn a profit and help people in need.

You could offer English/French lessons.

That would be right up your street. It would be very interesting and fulfilling.

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I am considering exactly that as one of the options, I know someone doing it already, it comes with its problems of course but I would rather those than the ones I know that come from housing anybody from the locality.

 

I would appreciate your lateral thinking on another opportunity, there is a large tarmacked area behind me that is a tennis court unused for 20 years, its enclavé and I have the only vehicular access to it, I wanted to buy it to extend my car parking, giving up my existing car park as the access ramp to the new one, now there is no need as even if I were to get customers again there is plenty of on street parking with nobody working at the factory.

 

It will be for sale next year but only as a job lot with the building next door, I'm not really interested but equally I dont want it going into the hands of anybody else, the outside parking/storage area is 664m2 and I estimate that the single story building is 225m2. It is effectively worthless as nobody would buy an old commercial property, the economy of the area is dead with the "krach" of the aéronautique secteur and there are hundreds of new buildings they are paying people to occupy, I would have extended the hôtel to create a lo-cost budget workers accomodation but thats dead in the water now, it has an asbestos roof so any conversion to domestic use would be uneconomic, its kind of worthless but I dont want anyone else to buy it and the combined properties will have value in a few years.

 

So given that I can probably sit here being paid to do nothing for next year as well and am desperate for a project, one on my doorstep is very tempting if only I could think of a good way of exploiting the secure outside compound with vehicular access and the building, it does not even need to be a long term thing, just something to trade for a few years to cover the costs of setting up and fitting out.

 

What ideas do you have? - its the sort of area that would be used by one of the construction equipment  sellers, trailers, motor caravans etc but the building is not really tall enough to use as a workshop with vehicle lifts etc.

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What ideas do you have? - its the sort of area that would be used by one of the construction equipment sellers, trailers, motor caravans etc but the building is not really tall enough to use as a workshop with vehicle lifts etc.

Not necessarily as a workshop but as a storage area for boats, camping cars, caravans for people who lack secure parking near their houses. Have seen adverts for farmer who let people use their barns etc.

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Well, you have to buy it. That is a given.

There are many things you could do but it is difficult to know what would work in your area.

My first thought would be premises for 'libre professionals' preferably medical type people. Dentist/kine'/medecin du sports, eyes, children's doctors, freelance nurses etc etc.

https://www.annonces-pro-sante.com/

Or build/convert it into a full on cabinet medical. Car park, entrance, waiting area, toilets and individual cabinets.

Much cheaper and easier to do than accommodation.

A bloke up our street did that and just rents the individual cabinets out. He is not short of clients.

Is there a demand in your area for that ?

Or you could think of something that compliments your hotel type gite type thing.

- Storage area of classic cars ?...like they have in the UK.

- Secondhand cars. specialist to RHD cars !!!

- Location business...like Loxham.

- Bio shop. All the rage now.

- Low cost Brico shop

- Anything artisan/Brico related.

- Secure storage area. Rent out Sq metres of space.

- Sell sand/gravel.

The list is endless.

One thing is for sure is that you buy it.

Cabinet medical is the best idea I think. Or other type businesses. A guy up our road rents a tiny space for fixing mobile phones. He is in the middle of nowhere but people come to him from all over Tours.

Or....you can just convert your existing apartments into individual cabinet medicals. And now you have a car park.

I will keep thinking during the day.

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A few random ideas, not necessarily in any order:

First, though, buying or not depends a lot on your age, i.e. how long you can work on it or wait before you have to sell/lease out for income when you retire. It's another thing to tie you to that area which may not be where you want to stay. Also, every year after a certain age you may have less energy, physical strength and drive to work as you did previously.

You could buy the whole lot and sell the building, or improve it yourself and rent it as suggested.

Does it have all services connected?

The roof may not be asbestos, many are actually cement reinforced with other material. Anyway, I don't think they have to be removed in France if not disturbed.

Does the tennis court have enough foundation to be used as a car park, especially for heavy stuff? The car park for a supermarket near us was increased by putting bitumen over adjacent land, but there are now large subsidences all over the new part due to heavy delivery trucks driving over the new area.

EDIT: I think the subsidences may be collapsed drains or other infrastructure[:(]

Can your area support a new business?

Are there many similar properties available but vacant for a long time around there? Our house has a large shop attached, which we bricked off and intended to rent out. We had a few enquiries, but the sort of rent we were offered, after taxes etc., was not enough to amortise the cost of separating the electric and water supplies from the house in a reasonable time.

Since then, more and more local shops closed down and stayed vacant, and chances of renting ours became less likely, so I reconnected it to the house, separated part of it as my office and we use the rest as a store. This also meant it was no longer assessed as a business premises, and as a store did not attract TdH.

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[quote user="Weegie"]I bet the OP is really glad he started this thread.[:D]  Hi-jack doesn't come  into it.

[/quote]

I think the OP got a good selection of answers and now may be asking somewhere else in the hope of getting the answers they want.

At least Chancer already knows the score and may like a couple of the suggestions.

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Then my work here is done [:D]

 

Some good ideas, many of them have already been done and there are brand new buildings like Le Hub & Industrilab with office & workshop space for start ups standing empty aside from the bored out of their heads supermodel receptionists, this area has always managed to raise EU funds to build white éléphants but have never had the savoir faire to exploit them.

 

And that will be the problem for either letting or selling it for business use, there are literally hundreds of unlet & unsold new energy efficient buildings with rent free deals for 5 years with no property taxes either, the existing businesses just play musical chairs hopping from one to another, in the time that I have been here I have seen ZACS built, occupied & then deserted, there must be 4 ZACS less than 15 years old all completely empty, you cannot give away old commercial property & eventually you have to demolish it to stop paying the property taxes, the whole of the original Airbus factory opposite me will be demolished, the apprentice training school (moved to Industrilab) has already been flattened.

 

Small serviced units for kinés etc might work, these types seem to be spread all around in garden sheds etc.

 

The tarmac is very deep and the remblai underneath done properly, you could stand an A380 on it.

 

In an ideal world I would like to buy the building & tennis court & resell the building but I would have to create something that has value, owning a car park behind all the buildings or to be accurate owning the only road access to it as I do, is the key to being able to develop all the terraced properties, none of them can be converted to residential use or even used as ERP's because of not having parking spaces and them having non compliant street entrances, they are up steep steps from the trottoir and no possibility for a ramp/wheelchair lift, access from the rear car park is level.

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