Zoe test drive.

[JohnRoss]

Had a test drive of the Renault Zoe the other day and quite impressed with

it. Ideal for local driving and not that expensive to run apart from the 400 volt battery

hire at 79 euros/month. Insurance companies seem a bit slow to update on this

and it is not clear if you ask for a devis for assurance if the rented battery is

included. The Renault agent told me the battery must be insured by me. Important as whilst not your property it might set you back

7000 euros if it was damaged in an accident or stolen. I pressed the point with

one insurance company and they quickly revised their quote a bit upwards. 100km

seems to be the range on full charge though Renault are a bit more optimistic.

 

One problem made clear in several unbiased assessments is that you are tied to

your wall box charger, which must be installed by an approved electrician for a fee, at home or charging points in town and there are not many

of them yet! The withdrawal of the occasional charging lead means that if you

visit friends they cannot live more than 50kms away or you will not get back

home unless they also have a wall box! Despite these problems I like it and for a second car for

local shopping etc great but not for long trips and top speed ok for country

roads and non-motorway roads but not motorways I suspect. Very smooth and quiet drive and nothing for the left foot to do as an automatic. Impressive acceleration and regenerative braking. Has anybody else tried

it and what did you think. Seriously thinking of getting one despite not

spending as much as 79 euros a month on diesel!..........JR

[sid]

That's an interesting report, thanks!

I'm always interested in these alternative (alternative to petrol/diesel) energy vehicles. I was in the Renault dealers a couple of months ago and had a look at the Twizy. That would be OK for nipping to the shops, but has pathetic weather protection. It does however charge from a conventional power socket, so I wonder why the better specified Zoe has a different charger? The Zoe scores in having proper doors!

The battery rental is a minus.

I'm not in the market for one of these, but I'll follow the progress.

 

[Anton Redman]

Charging time from a 16 amp socket is 9 hours. 3 phase 63 amp takes 30 minutes to an 80% charge and I believe 3 hours to full charge. It is a greener solution in France where 80% of electricity is nuclear or Finland which is mainly hydroelectric. In the UK I bet its full life pollution is no better than a diesel Clio.

I bet hydrogen fuel cells will be leading the market within ten years. Unless they are shackled with totally discriminatory versus petrol fuel tank safety requirements.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/150202-first-production-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-hit-the-market-from-hyundai

Forgot to mention Henry Ford bought a new electric car for his wife each year. Keep meaning to buy Cecil Brown's Stagolee Shot Billy to see if the reference to the electric car is contemporay or a latter addition.

Sorry correction electric car reference is Duncan & Brady rather than Stagolee.

[JohnRoss]

Yes the occasional lead for a 16 amp socket was withdrawn after some problems after long term use. Must have been more than just a lead and I suppose included a bridge rectifier and a constant current device. The multipin socket on the front of the Zoe might have had a centre tap on the battery in which case the lead may have charged the two halves in parallel.The wall box I saw looked too small to house a transformer in a 3kW unit. Maybe they will bring it back when sorted. They insist on an approved sparks doing the wall box charger installation and it is their battery so there you go. I have asked for a free devis for the installation due in a couple of weeks and then I will make a decision whether to buy or not. They also made it very clear to me that fiddling with the battery was verboten and only their chaps could touch it! Not sure about Hydrogen cells, remember the Hindenberg! Mind you one sits on top of the Zoe battery so don't know how comfortable it would be if it shorted out, nasty!..................JR

[Anton Redman]

The Hindenberg exploded because they changed the formula for the dope which rendered the outer fabric gas tight. This in turn led to pools of water accumulating which in turn conducted the charge generated with the airship was earthed. I still believe that if the R101 had not been built the R100 would have been a commercial success.

Checkout the current Dreamliner problems for dificulties with batteries.

I am pretty sure that if somebody suggested replacing fuel cells with petrol tanks the safety lobby would be down on petrol tanks like a tonne of bricks

[Anton Redman]

On the Feasibility of Coal-Driven Power Stations

by Otto Robert Frisch (1904-1979)

Jacksonian Professor of Natural Philosophy - Cambridge University

(In Commemoration of the 70th birthday of Niels Bohr, October 7th 1955)

Read it once years ago and always assumed it was a short story by Asimov or Heinlein. Still find it both funny and apposite-

http://www.mpoweruk.com/coal.htm

Note references to Thorium which I still believe is thy way to go for nuclear power.

 

[andyh4]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

I bet hydrogen fuel cells will be leading the market within ten years. Unless they are shackled with totally discriminatory versus petrol fuel tank safety requirements.

.

[/quote]

 

Not until the production systems for Hydrogen change.

Almost all Hydrogen that is commercially available today is made from Methane.

 

CH4 + O2  = 2 x H2 + the dreaded CO2.

 

 

[Théière]

Should make fizzy drinks cheaper [;-)]

[Anton Redman]

Nuclear or solar powered electrolysis of water for it to be viable.

[sid]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]Yes the occasional lead for a 16 amp socket was withdrawn after some problems after long term use. Must have been more than just a lead and I suppose included a bridge rectifier and a constant current device. The multipin socket on the front of the Zoe might have had a centre tap on the battery in which case the lead may have charged the two halves in parallel.The wall box I saw looked too small to house a transformer in a 3kW unit. Maybe they will bring it back when sorted. They insist on an approved sparks doing the wall box charger installation and it is their battery so there you go. I have asked for a free devis for the installation due in a couple of weeks and then I will make a decision whether to buy or not. They also made it very clear to me that fiddling with the battery was verboten and only their chaps could touch it! Not sure about Hydrogen cells, remember the Hindenberg! Mind you one sits on top of the Zoe battery so don't know how comfortable it would be if it shorted out, nasty!..................JR[/quote]

Going back to this charging issue, the UK Twizy is supplied with a 3m 13amp lead and plug for use on a domestic socket.

http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/twizy/keyfeatures.aspx  (UK site)

I wonder why the Zoe is different? Is it simply the larger battery capacity and therefore higher charging current?

 The UK site says the Zoe has 130 mile range, which is over 200km. not bad.

 

[JohnRoss]

Having read a bit more a bit more about the Zoe I have now come to the conclusion that the charger may be built into the car and the wall box is just an interface between either 3 phase or single phase house mains supply and the car. In which case it seems very strange that you are not allowed to wire it with a 16 plug to plug in anywhere. The bloke giving a devis arrives on Tuesday next so will know more then. Sounds a bit like jobs for the boys as Renault use an agency called Veolia to find a local approved electrician to come and give you the devis for installing the wall box. The agency must get something out of it and so does the sparks of course. Will watch out for him talking the job up in price. It is this sort of thing that puts you off buying the car! Of course I could be being just a bit Victor Meldrew about this!.......................JR 

[JohnRoss]

Bloke came to look at our electrical installation to quote for Wall Box installation today and said that the cable to the barn was too long and that he recommended a much shorter one. I had already calculated the cable resistance by loading it with a 2kW heater and measuring voltage drop, live and neutral, and with a 3 kilowatt load there would be 93 watts dissipated in the 25 metre length of the cable which would be a bit worrying after time had passed as it might accelerate the aging process of the insulation. So I would have to have an external wall box mounted on the house and either cut and lift the barn cable close to the house and make other arrangements for the barn or fit a new cable to the tableau électrique box in the house and run this 5 metres underground to where he suggested fitting the wall Box. Sounds easy but believe me it ain't. 

He quoted 980 euros for the cost of the Wall Box and its installation if I provide the active cable for him to connect to the wall box. He also said that I must have a differential trip fitted in the house for the Wall Box feed and that would have to be mounted underneath the existing wall mounted tableau électrique as ours was old and modern trips would not fit. Our existing tableau électrique is old and has a mixture of trips and fused switches so he may be right but I will pop into Bricomarché and check that this is true. This extra work he thought would cost about another 340 euros. This makes a total of 630 for the electrical work and 690 for the exterior wall box! It all adds up and no mistake. Formal quote to come next week so decision time then!........................JR

[Anton Redman]

UK 75% paid for by Goverment Grant 25% picked up by Regie.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Renault-Zoe-2013-CAR-reivew/

Thought it would be interesting to compare UK cost..

[sid]

Doesn't this rather de-value the flexibility of the car? You'll only be able to charge at "special" places, not at a friend's for example, unless he/she has also installed a power point just for you!  I'm rapidly going off the whole thing. Wake me up when it's all been sorted out in a few years time. [:(]

 

[JohnRoss]

Got the devis for the installation of the Wall Box and the extra bits in the house and it came to only 347.37 for the electrical work and 690 for the wall Box so not as much as I had thought, yipee! Now got to get a firm delivery date from Renault and I think we might just go for it. The lack of charging at any place other than our home or public charging points is something I think will change soon and press info about the statements made by the Renault boss might indicate that this is so. Not a problem for us as I only see the vehicle being used for local shopping trips etc. I got a map of this area and made a circle at 50 km from home and I don't see us wanting to use it to travel any further than that just now. I think, as others have said, that it is an ideal second car and I would not yet consider it as a primary transport device but, as they say, watch this space.................JR

[dave21478]

call me naive if you want, but if i were to spunk several thousand pounds on a car that absolutely requires a special charging point and is useless without one, i would want the installation of the charging point to be included in the price of the car. Yes every installation is different, requiring different amounts of work, but a "standard install" charge should be built into the price.

and no, not just an extra grand slapped on top of the price as i am sure the french dealers would just do.

[JohnRoss]

I tend to agree. If you bought a 3kW Nightstore heater the shop would not insist that you have an electrician to install it though they might recommend that. As I said earlier, jobs for the boys. They won't sell you a Wall Box without them installing it. They say because they don't want the car to get a bad name if it all goes wrong. The agency Veolia/Proxiserve sell the Wall Box and not Renault and Renault own the battery being charged so there you go! Still it is the route one has to go if you want one and I do!...........JR

[sid]

Please let us know how you get on with the new car.

 

[JohnRoss]

Will do. The Veolia guy seemed quite happy for me to provide a feed to the Wall Box i.e. either digging up the cable to the barn or running a new cable underground from next to the tableau electrique to where they are mounting the wall box. They want to fit the differential trip and wire this to the to the house supply and the other end to the Wall Box .Will know more next week as do not yet have a firm delivery date if I order one and will see the Renault agent to see what he can do.......................JR

[Anton Redman]

Watch out for pedestrians everywhere including supermarket car parks. Lots of them rely on the ears rather than their eyes. Saw a couple of near misses with electric cars in Bordeaux.

[JohnRoss]

I gather the noise maker is something that the driver has to remember to switch on so something to be remembered when getting into the car! Well we done it guv and ordered one so hope to get delivery mid July. One thing that worried me is that the Renault bloke said I could drive my old Megane up to the garage when the Zoe is available for collection. Thing is that the C.T. may have just expired by then, sounds a bit iffy to me or maybe driving it to a garage is ok? Anyway will report on how it goes once we have it.....................JR

PS The free Wall box and free installation of same by British Gas in the UK is really annoying, poo! 

[JohnRoss]

Well had the Zoe Intens for a week now and am very pleased with it. Anybody else got one as would be interesting to compare notes? Used it for local trips into town etc and it is a smooth drive and no mistake guv. The Zoe forum in the U.K. http://www.zoeforums.co.uk/forum/ was helpful in that I was able to download the instruction manual in English http://www.zoeforums.co.uk/forum/uploads/1/Renault_Zoe_handbook.pdf and sorted out a lot of the things that were puzzling me like the sophisticated locking system and the manual seems to cover more than one model. The only thing that I have failed to find so far is the deadlocking facility which this model may not have of course. It does not have the ioniser and scent diffuser that you find in the Zen model however apart from one thing I am going to give it cinq sur cinq.

The one thing that worries me slightly is that it does not have a spare wheel though I gather this is becoming the norm. Instead you get a bottle of gunk and a compressor to reinflate a punctured tyre by blowing air through the bottle into the tyre valve. This is to get you to a garage or home as long as the puncture is not in the sidewall. Otherwise really a good drive and nippy with it. The charge indicator when fully charged shows 133km available but those in the know suggest you plan on 100km to be on the safe side. The battery recharges when you decelerate or go down hill so that should extend the range if you do a lot of down hill driving as long as you don't have to go back up on the same trip! There are a lack of storage facilities in the cab probably because of the 400 v battery under the floor but a fair sized boot so no real problem there. All in all I like it!..................JR

[sid]

Hello JR. Thanks for the update, I've been away on holiday, so I've only just found your report.

I think I'm a little disappointed at the range; I was expecting 200km simply because the UK version says over 120 miles. However, re-reading the PDF sales blurb this morning I see that they say 90 miles effectively under suburban conditions and maybe down to 60 miles in winter when you use all the heating system too.

In some respects you're being a pioneer here; very brave of you! If you can use the car for trips which fit well with these limits I think that's great!

Deadlocking... my Renault needs a double-click on the keypad, or a double-press on the door button to activate the deadlocks; maybe the Zoe is the same??

I ordered a spare wheel with my recent Megane purchase; I just don't think a re-inflation system is good enough; what happens if the tyre is damaged? It's a problem with an electric car because of storage space though.

Please continue to let us know how you get on over the following months, and thanks!

 

 

[JohnRoss]

One thing I have noticed driving the Zoe is a high frequency whine which is noticeable when accelerating and which increases in frequency the faster you go. What could this be, motor armature whine, cooling fan on armature, static inverter transformer core vibration? I am assuming the Zoe has an ac motor and 400 volts dc is converted to ac somehow. Please correct me if I am wrong as I know next to nothing about the drive system! I guess what I am asking is, is this whine normal? I will pop into the Renault agent soon and ask about this and the lack of deadlocking...................JR

[Pierre ZFP]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]One thing I have noticed driving the Zoe is a high frequency whine which is noticeable when accelerating JR[/quote]

Can you not just leave the wife at home? [Www]