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[Katt]

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[Nick Trollope]

I'm afraid I agree with your sentiments, although my experience with VEF was a little better. However, I suspect that most ofthe mags' income is from advertisers, not from subscribers...

 

[Will]

Katt,

I am not going to delete your post, but will point out that your comments about VEF probably merit deletion. The fact that VEF, JB French Properties (or any of the other companies, mention of whom bring out accusations of censorship from various quarters) advertise in Living France magazine has no bearing on this.

I will counter your comments by pointing out, to newcomers and others, that VEF is a British company that specialises in French property for British buyers. It puts them in touch with its franchised agencies in France, and does not have French offices itself. So your problem concerns the French office rather than VEF (though I am sure VEF would like to hear from you if you are not satisfied). Anyway, it sounds like a common problem with estate agencies anywhere who want to clinch a sale, rather than anything specific to VEF.

Where VEF differs from many other agencies is that, as well as the French agency charges and legal fees (that you have to pay anyway), VEF makes an extra charge to buyers, I believe £3000 + VAT upwards. Although many are happy to pay this in return for the services VEF provides, others believe it to be an unnecessary imposition, maybe because they are lucky enough to be dealing with one of the French agencies that provides many of these 'extras' within its standard fee, or they have other reasons for not needing the service. There is no problem with mentioning this on the forum - VEF is quite up-front about its fees and it is a mere statement of fact. Where threads have had to be removed is where forum users have stated that such fees are in some way 'dodgy' - such comments are untrue and unacceptable.

Many of the other agencies advertising 'all-inclusive' prices include similar fees in their price. (The normal practice with French agencies is that advertised prices include agency fees, but the buyer has to add legal fees).

Most of the British house-sales companies advertising in Living France act as referral agencies for French estate agencies, and they share commission etc with the French agency, so the buyer pays no extra, other than the standard fees that any French buyer would have to pay. There was an exception highlighted here recently where a forum member mentioned that an agency in France, Agence de la Tour, imposed an extra charge to non-French buyers referred through its English agent, JB French Houses. This again was fact, and no problem with mentioning it here. In fact JB French Houses responded that it was ceasing dealing with this French agency. Unfortunately the topic again deteriorated into potential defamatory comments, involving different prices charged by different agencies, and again, had to be removed for this reason, rather than the fact that JB French Houses was an advertiser.

Yes, Living France depends on advertising income for its survival and has to be commercially-minded. The prospect, though, of seven-figure damages as a result of comments made on its web site is the real reason for playing safe where potential defamation is concerned, rather than loss of one advertiser.

I hope this clarifies the position as far as the forum is concerned.

[Katt]

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[Val_2]

Friends of ours had their lives ruined for a long while and lost a great deal of money through putting their trust with a franchised office to sort out their building problems for them in their absence. Their only reward was to see the "builder"(not even registered to build) made bankrupt eventually but it took its toll on them and their bank balance and they would never deal or recommend that particular company again and the attitude of the franchise owners.

[cheminot]

I have never dealt with the british based agencies mentioned on this thread, however, during my househunting I came across others in the course of my searches and found that without exception there were additional fees built in to the price of their properties. The agencies naturally made great mention of the services they offered but I dont recall an instance where it was made clear that there was a charge for this at the outset.

I first discovered it when an agency sent me details of a property that I had already received from a local immoblier, the difference being that the property was 30,000 euros dearer. The only obvious difference apart from the price was that notaires fees were included in in the brit agency price. Taking them out it still came to an additional 20000+ euros difference. Quite a lot for even the best hand-holding service.

Another aspect that puzzles me is that anyone who is prepared  to spend a large sum of money on buying a property in France is not prepared to take the time to search it out and oversee the process directly. I personally enjoyed the process and given the nature and size of the investment would be very wary of entrusting it to a third party.

Cheminot

[P]

We visited the French Property Show in London last year. The French agencies were no pushy. However, when it came to VEF it was push, push, push, including suggesting that we should leap straight in and include the property in a pension portfolio, which the government has not scotched.

Their sales practices are most certainly not to my taste.

Paul

[Russethouse]

[quote user="P"]

including suggesting that we should leap straight in and include the property in a pension portfolio, which the government has not scotched.

[/quote]

I think you will find the government HAS scotched that idea now, there is another thread about this. http://http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/592889/ShowPost.aspx

 

[Quillan]

When we started our house hunting in France back in 1999/2000 we did so from our front room through the internet. We had no idea exactly what we wanted to buy, a wreck to renovate, a house than needed light renovation (new kitchen, bathroom and decorating but otherwise sound), a normal lived in French home or to build ourselves. We didn’t even have any idea which part of France we wanted to live in. To compound matters further I spoke no French what so ever and my wife struggled with her 30 year old school girl French.

 

During our long trip through France we looked at houses in all the conditions mentioned above but mainly with French agents found on the web. We did see some houses with a company based in the UK and who use to advertise in the LF magazine. I have to say our experience was pretty bad. The particular house that we wanted to see was ‘sold’ the day before we went to see it. We contacted the agent on the morning of our visit to confirm our arrival time. No mention was made that the house had been sold the day previous We had to drive for 3 hours to meet up with the agent. When we were told all this on our arrival we were then told, strange enough, that 3 other houses had been selected which we were to shown.

 

We did visit the other three houses because having driven for 3 hours we might just as well see them as we were there. None of them met our specification or were outside our price range. It became apparent we were not interested in any of them even the one that the agent spent two hours trying to sell us telling us it was identical to the one that had been sold but in reality looked nothing like it. After being told we were time wasters we were then left in the middle of nowhere to find our own way back to where we were staying by a rather upset agent.

 

A subsequent result of this was that once we had decided on the region in which we wanted to live we made a conscious effort not to use any UK based companies and looked for French agents that spoke English. The many different French agents that spend a lot of time with us were always courteous and polite, never pushy and always very helpful. The agent that we found our house through has always been very helpful even now four years later. Their after sales service, something sadly lacking in the UK, has been brilliant.

 

So my advice to potential buyers is not to use UK based agents but to come to France and deal directly with French agents. Notaires prices are fixed; a good agent will supply you with a chart of notaires charges. They will also give you a copy of any contract in English. Having said that I would recommend that you have it translated professionally, you don’t need a solicitor to do this just a translator.

 

To answer question raised here, many people do put their house with more than one agent in France, particularly the French. Why not, we do the same in the UK.

 

It should be the house you like decides the agent you use, not the agent deciding what house you buy. By using these sort of people you are limiting your scope. It’s a bit like buying a car, you pick the car then go to the place that sells them.

[YCCMB]

Hear hear Quillan, couldn't agree more![:)] Having had an awful experience with a French-based Brit, whose French was actually not good enough to get directions to a property when he was lost (I had to do it for him), and who took us to view a house he'd never seen, then asked me to translate what the owner was telling us "so that he could explain it for other clients", we were subsequently really messed around by this guy, and dropped him in order to do our own searches through French agents in our chosen area. The 2 or 3 French agents we contacted really couldn't do enough to help, and the choice and eventual purchase of our home was absolutely without hitch, with the French agent doing, I'm sure, no more than he would have done for any client, but at no extra-inflated cost. OK, I speak good enough French, but our agent spoke quite reasonable English, and was at pains in spite of my general understanding of the language to make sure I fully understood all the legal and contractual aspects of the purchase.

[Will]

Please don't tar all agents with the same brushes.

In this area there are plenty of truly awful French agencies (and notaires), some of whom employ totally useless English agents commerciaux (or whatever the current equivalent is) in order to attract British buyers. There are also two or three very good non-French owned agencies, though they have all the correct French paperwork, insurances etc, and who provide comprehensive services without inflating costs. And, of course, some good British agents commerciaux working with French agencies. It's something of a lottery, I know. The best way to find an agent is by personal recommendation, but any agency's general attitude is likely to give a pretty good idea of the sort of service you are likely to receive before you even start to visit houses with them.

Often, the person who shows you round will be an agent commercial operating on commission only. So being pushy is an almost inevitable consequence. There was much talk about the law being changed to turn such people into bona fide employees, but it hasn't really happened yet. Having said that, the negotiatrice nearest and dearest to me is salaried. She also likes to make sure that the house people buy is the right one for them, so you are likely to get much less pressure there. There are other agencies like that in other bits of France - you just have to find them. Hence the need for personal recommendation, or asking the right questions of the agency at the outset.

[Quillan]

Of course there are good and bad in every walk of life and I suspect there are some good honest English people out there working very hard.

 

We have a French agent very near by. They employed an English person (well to be correct Scottish but I won't hold that against them - joke). The French side was fine but only 1% of the people that have stayed with us and have had dealings with this person have a good word to say. The remainder have made comments ranging from ‘not very good’ to the totally obscene. It was only when some deals went totally wrong was this person taken to task and was asked to resign.

 

We never dealt with them so I can’t make a personal comment. The reason why we didn’t deal with them was because they had an English person working for them. A bit harsh I know but after our first dealings with an English house seller in France that was the route we decided to go.

 

We only dealt with French agents that could speak English, not those that employed English people. Perhaps it’s the French culture that makes them so laid back but as I said we were very happy with all the French people we had dealings with.

 

To be honest I find it somewhat sad that English people buying now are going through UK agents, using English solicitors to oversee what is a very straight forward house buying system and even getting accountants and /or financial consultants involved in some cases. The buying procedure in France is different which probably frightens people a bit but at the end of the day it’s actually very simple and you have just as much chance of coming against a problem as any French person in the same position. Don’t kid yourselves that it always goes right for them (French buyers) either.

 

A lot of people could save a lot of uncertainty (and a vast amount of money) by just employing a professional translator to look at documents etc. but these days, in most cases, there really is no need as most notaires and agents can give you all the documentation in English. Don’t forget that the more people you employ the bigger the bill.

 

[derf]

[quote user="Quillan"]

We have a French agent very near by. They employed an English person (well to be correct Scottish but I won't hold that against them - joke). [/quote]

Was the Scottish person a female?  if so,  I understand why she had to resign[:D]

[Quillan]

It would be very improper of me to ment further details in open forum.