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mint
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On the subject of HP/HC vs. Base rate contracts, here are

some actual figures.

We made a HP/HC contract for electricity with Direct Energie

on moving to this house in 2011.

Our heating is by air/air heat pumps, changing to a single

pellet stove when the outside temperature drops. There is little or no

difference between these in hourly cost when the heat pump is working

efficiently, with outside air above about 10º, but the stove has to be cleaned

etc. for each 100kg of pellets used, which favours the heat pumps.

Water heating is electric, with a timer to run only during

off-peak hours (There is no control cable from the outside meter to the main

panel, and too much trouble to run one).

The washing machine and clothes dryer are used only during

the daytime off-peak hours, 1430 to 1730. We don’t have a dishwasher – at least

not an electric one [:D]

I have a spreadsheet, on which I record our consumption and check our

overall cost per unit, not including the standing charge.

This shows, for the latest 3 bills since the last price

increase on 1/8/15, savings of 3€65, 5€05, and 4€23 respectively, for

bi-monthly consumptions of 786, 982, and 902 units, compared with the cost if

we were on the Base tariff. About 26€ per year.

Our bi-monthly standing charge is 4€10 higher than that for a Base contract, an extra 24€60

a year, so in our case it makes little difference which contract we have.

If we were on their Online contract, saving 8% instead of 5%

of the Regulated tariff, the savings would be 3€46, 4€30, and 3€97 respectively,

with the same standing charge. About 24€ per year.

As a result of this exercise I have decided to change to a

Base rate contract, as there will be no significant difference in cost compared

with our current HP/HC contract, and we shall be able to use the washing

machine and dryer at any time.

I shall also change to an Online contract, as I already go

online regularly to register the meter readings, and it’s not much extra work

to print out the bills to save a few Euros.

 

 

 

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And the savings of 3 or 4 Euros are virtually wiped out by the increased standing charge.

 

I have done the calculations a few times and its a real maths challenge but the hardest is decrypting all the taxes on taxes, your consumption is just about the break even limit that I had calculated and its nice to see it proved in practice.

 

Were you to use a lot more night-time units then your virtually nil current savings would increase but unless you install storage heaters like mine that isnt likely to happen, if however you use a lot more daytime units, and remember the HP units cost more than the standard tariff, then you would most probably be losing money.

 

The most likely event is that you have a very cold winter or have elderly or frileuse guests and the heating is turned right up, because your heating consumes 24/7 you save a few centimes during the 8 hours of  HC but lose twice that amount with the extra cost of the HP units, that is why the HP/HC tariff which once was a saving is now such une arnaque and why EDF are pushing it so much to their pigeon customers.

 

Smart move Nomoss, I am still overall making a saving on HP/HC, it costs me more 9 months of the year but the storage heating in winter consumes enough HC units to counter that, if they muddle with the abonnement and unit charges one more time then it will no longer be a saving.

 

I repeat once more and thank you for proving it Nomoss, an HP/HC abonnement used just for the hot water and washing machine will cost you more money than the standard tariff despite what the liars at EDF will have you believe and what most of the French believe without question. 

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Another problem with HP/HC is that the washing machine often used almost all the hot water during the daytime HC period, and, as it was not heated again until the middle of the night, we often suffered lukewarm evening showers.

After we move to the Base tariff I can choose timer settings for heating the water, but manually override them if too much hot water has been used up by the washing machine - so long as I remember to switch it back again[;-)]

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The reason I want to change is that the way I use electricity has changed quite a bit.

The hc hours during the night were OK for dishwasher and washing machine most of the time.  I just set them up to come on.

My hc units during the day were not as generous as nomoss's; they were only from 12.30 to 2.30 and my most commonly used programmes for the washing machine take 3 hours.

If I use the breadmaker (not often) that's 4 hours. 

I have newly joined 2 walking groups and never eat lunch before going out at one-ish, not enough time to enjoy our main meal of the day properly.  So, on at least 3 days a week, I am not cooking during the hc times.  PLUS I am now cooking on the new induction hob, so more electricity used during hp times instead.

I used to find it such a pressure to cook, iron, hoover, use steam mop all in the space of those 2 hc hours.

For me, the luxury would be to use all the appliances at whatever time I choose and not feel guilty that I am not taking advantage of hc[:D]

Mind you, I have to await the engineer to come and do whatever it is that he needs to do so I suppose the hc still apply in the interim.

 

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[quote user="mint"]

............... I used to find it such a pressure to cook, iron, hoover, use steam mop all in the space of those 2 hc hours.

For me, the luxury would be to use all the appliances at whatever time I choose and not feel guilty that I am not taking advantage of hc[:D] ................................

[/quote]

The pressure was even worse when we had the EDF Red/White/Blue/HP/HC contract we inherited with our previous house. We were slaves to the colour of the day and now glad to be rid.

I started the spreadsheet mentioned above to compare costs between the two houses. The results were a bit inconclusive as it was just after the worst cold winter for many years, but the general impression was that we were paying about the same, and with a lot less hassle.

As Chancer said, the only advantage of special tariffs seems to be if one has storage heaters and a very large hot water tank, although when we had those many years ago the heat seemed to run out just as it started to get cold in the evening, in spite of an afternoon "boost".

Maybe they work best for people who go to bed early, but we're still operating on Spanish hours, even after 16 years here.

I read recently that country people in France used to vitually hibernate during the winter - HP/HC would probably be ideal for them[:D]

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just been told that I have another €20 coming for parrainage which will make €80 with my own "primes" for joining plus €60 to my parraine.

 

I told a friend that I had changed and what the savings were, I never mentioned parrainage and she joined up via telephone rather than the internet, they asked her how she found out about them and did she want me to be rewarded as a parraine which is quite nice.

 

It also shows just how little people talk to each other around here, how mean spirited they are that they would not want to help someone else save money even if there is €20 in it for themselves, probably because the subscriber also gets €20, whenever I mention it in passing (I am not promoting it) everyone is very interested and all seem to want to make the move, maybe its not having the confidence, they all ask loads of questions about how it works and find it hard to believe that a company should want to make it as easy as possible, none of them had heard about it from word of mouth before me.

 

I had the same thing with word of mouth regarding my rental units, despite it being by far the best media it just dont work in these parts, I could not drag people along to see the apartments, 2 years on and the word of mouth is really really strong but not locally, nor within the Airbus factory opposite but amongst their suppliers and sub contractors elsewhere in France and all over the world, they like me were shocked to find that people in the company including in R.H. would not make even the slightest effort in helping new employees find somewhere to stay.

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  • 4 months later...
Resurrecting this thread. We are in the process of buying an apartment in Nantes, to live in full time, so thought we would give Direct Energie a try. Believe someone can make 20€ by us using their recommendation so if anyone wants the money, please PM with the necessary info. Intention is to have an all electric kitchen with all electric heating on the most basic tariff (we are HC/HP in our current house) at 12KVA. We have 12KVA 3 phase at present, so single phase 12KVA should be enough for our needs - unless someone has a better idea!
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Lehaut, I have just cancelled my Direct Energie contrat and gone back to EDF.

Getting absolutely nowhere with my request NOT to have HP/HC.  They kept putting me off, I kept emailing (not so much telephoning because I have a phone phobia in ANY language).  They wrote to me and said to ring back, so I did.

They seem to like keeping you on the phone and SOUND like they are checking some of your information on their system.  They mutter to themselves, then ask you a simple question, then mutter to themselves some more (making sure you could hear these mutterings), then they promise that a technicien will ring for a rdv at your house to change the compteur.

I kept my mobile on day and night for days on end, no calls, then I'd send another email, then I'd get another letter in the post asking me to ring them.

This process repeated itself for 3 or 4 times.  Then I emailed and said that if they didn't want to or can't change my tariffaire, I was going to go back to EDF.  All of a sudden, I was innundated with calls, both on my fixed line and on my mobile.  They again promised a rdv but could never actually give me a time or a date.  When I said I was no longer interested, they LIED to me!

Mais oui!  First they said that I couldn't change my tariffaire until after one year was up which meant that I couldn't change until March 2017.  Then, they told me that, even if I changed my fournisseur, whoever it was wouldn't be able to change it either.

Well, wouldn't you know, I rang EDF and they welcomed me back with open arms.  They did the résiliation there and then, effective straightaway and they had a technicien to my house 3 days later and the HP/HC thing was changed.

Needless to say, I immediately rang my bank to cancel my DD with Energie Direct and re-instated my EDF prélèvements.

For me, it just wasn't worth the hassle of that little bit of saving!

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How bizzare !It was almost exactly the opposite for me...

My main reason for the change to DE was that the EDF refused to let me have just the basic tariff and insisted on the fact that they were going to send a technician to change over to HC/HP which I didn't want..and at my expense.

DE let me have exactly what I wanted and on the one occasion I needed to change somethinf it was done by email immediately.

It is this service and flexibility that I appreciate as against the arrogant  refusal of EDF to do as I wanted  The small saving I make of a few € a month  while welcome hardly came into the eqution.

Once again two very different experiences  [8-)]

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Norman, c'est vraiment très bizarre!

DE said they'd have to charge me 30 euros for the technicien's visit.  So, I said OK, agreed.

Do you think that EDF thinks that my little bit of money could help them with the cost of the nuclear plant at Hinckley Point which is in any case now on hold?[:D][:D][:D]

In any case, EDF has not said they'd charge for the technicien's visit and, indeed so far, I have not been billed for it[:-))]

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