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What problems have you had/ expect to have when buying ?


Seanie
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I have had problems and I know secveral others who have had too. During the negociations, signing papers and then more typically, after the purchase so I'm curious and ask you some questions :

 

You have bought, have the intention to buy, would eventually like to buy a house in France - this could be your principal home, holiday home or an investment !

 

1) What problems have you encountered / do you anticipate in finding / choosing / buying your house ?

 

2) What (if any) assistance would you have taken or would like to have ?

 

3) Would you expect your assistant to negaoicate on your behalf, with or without your presence (and therefore possibly saving you expensive return trips) ?

 

4) What would you consider an acceptable fee for such assistance (note that you wouldn't need to seek a bi-lingual and therefore more expensive notaire (solicitor)) ?

 

5) Would you prefer any assistants' fees to be on a fixed rate or a % of money saved on the purchase price or as a combination of both ?

 

Any other thoughts or info or questions would be appreciated - give me your feedback please !

 

Thanks

Sean

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Certainly no insumountable problems or ones that needed a consultancy to sort out, neighbours etc have been more than happy to impart information and assist as required.  A bit of homework and a good read of the countless informative threads on this forum would ease anyones purchase in France.  English speaking Notaries abound.  Buying and selling is stressful anyway, that is to be expected and whenever a glitch occurs it always seems like a mountain at the time.
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Since when has a Notaire charged more on a house sale or purchase because they speak more than one language?  Have I missed something?  Better ask the Dr, Dentist, Pharmacist, EDF, Gaz, Impot etc,  if they add on an extra fee when they speak some words of English [*-)]  All further answers to this post should be in French and therefore attract a charge. [;)]
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[quote user="Agenais"]Since when has a Notaire charged more on a house

sale or purchase because they speak more than one language? 

Have I missed something?  Better ask the Dr, Dentist,

Pharmacist, EDF, Gaz, Impot etc,  if they add on an extra fee

when they speak some words of English [*-)]  All

further answers to this post should be in French and

therefore attract a charge. [;)][/quote]

Oui (c'est un euro s'il vous plaît !)

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We bought in the late 80's when there was no internet,very very few agents in the UK and maybe just one publication you could buy but we didn't know about it and we had absolutely NO problems whatsoever even though we did not speak fluent french and had absolutely no idea what we were getting into,people were only just discovering the property market here - there was just no one else to talk with in those days!  I have always believed,apart from getting first hand experiences from other people like us on these forums, that if you want the right info and the proper service then you pay those who are actually playing a part in your house purchase i.e a french agent immobilier/registered to sell in France UK agent and your notaire and not someone coming along to jump on the bandwagon with no expertise in France and certainly not registered to do so either. I heard of an english person about three years back not too far from us offering a hand holding service and was asking £1000 for this,hope no one was foolish enough to take them up and pay out. A good notaire will help you through any problems you may have from getting EDF to switch on to getting yourproperty taxes sorted out. Why spend money on something that you don't need.
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I dont know why but I get the distinct impression that property consultants are regarded with the same popularity as manure flavoured mouthwashTongue Tied [:S] and not quite as useful.

I have to say that there is no substitute for DIY research and planning. All the information you need is obtainable free, it just requires some effort to find it.

Cheminot

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(Have posted this again as I messed up the first one)

I dont know why but I get the distinct impression that property consultants are regarded with the same popularity as manure flavoured mouthwash[:S] and not quite as useful.

I have to say that there is no substitute for DIY research and planning. All the information you need is obtainable free, it just requires some effort to find it.

Cheminot

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks all - I appreciate your candidness ! And I will type with less haste next time :-)

Perhaps it is a dream (that won't work) but I feel that there are too many buyers being dealt short by estate agencies, who have been acting like frenzied sharks with the price explosions here in the West ! I know of three buyers who over-paid by between 26000 and 42000 euros - this could have been avoided with the right advice and perhaps someone to negociate !

It's not just the prices but checking out proposed construction nearby ! There are a lot of sensible people out there who have bought and who wish to buy who think of everything or think they have but the market is NOT the same as it was 10/15 years ago ! There are, clearly, honest agencies and the notaires can be trusted but one must ask the right questions and in the right places.

There are also a lot of people who don't do enough homework, can't (or in many cases, surprisingly, don't want to) speak French - should these people just be left to 'tomber dans la merde' ?

I've been living and working here for 8 years, my parents live here, my sister and her daughter too. I've married a French-woman and have a 17 month old boy who is attempting to be bi-lingual. I don't have to set up anything but don't wish to see anymore people get stitched !

I would be grateful to hear from any and all people who are still in the UK - what are your views please ?

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Seanie

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For all those who were helped by 'their' estate agent - how much did you pay the agent for the right to sell you someone elses' property ? That might explain their eagerness to help you further by organising the utilities etc - is that not called 'providing better service than the competition' because houses are placed with several agencies at a time since it doesn't cost the seller a centime ?

Also, buyers beware because when different agencies advertise the same house, it's quite often not at the same price (even on different ads. from the same agency) - something not entirely explained by 'frais inclus' or not included !

Call me a cynic but if someone walked in off the street and said 'I'd like to look at the house there advertised at 152000 euros' and it was advertised elsewhere in an updated ad. for 145000, would you expect the agency to say 'oh, but the new, reduced price is 145000' ? It IS happening out there !

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I really don't get what you are on about here at all.

If they have done it to you, complain. You don't have to sign anything do you. AND people could check local papers and the internet if they want to avoid estate agents.

 

Rumour has it that adults purchase houses in France and what ever happens they chose and decide. They have the internet and they can learn french and everything........ all like grown ups.

 

And after reading this board my personal belief is that brits in general do pretty well where estate agents are concerned, get far more for each cent paid than french speakers or french people. That we get some whinging on here is quite another matter.

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And so the attitude appears to be ' I'm alright Jack' !

No-one's done it to me but I am just one person who knows of several stories and has read of a lot more (in the English written French press and on a forum or two); there are frequently request from prospective buyers who ask which estate agencies to trust !

Maybe you'll say, I'm just a negative character but I'm sure there are more bad stories around....

I believe that the buying/selling rules in France are biased towards the seller (eg: buyer pays all costs, seller not obliged to disclose info unless specifically asked) and that estate agencies, however sincere have their clients interests at heart and to sell at the highest price AND it is the seller who cops the charges !

I can't change the system but would like to see independant advice offered to prospective buyers; everything is loaded against them.

Yes, there is internet, yes people can learn French but what appears to have been said so far here is that those people who don't make an effort deserve all that can fall on their heads ! I've observed that one can have anything in the UK now, so long as one pays - these are the next style of people buying - no effort but willing to pay to avoid the mire. Am I wrong ?

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From speaking to some French agents a common complaint that they have is that not enough homework is done by the buyers before they brief the agent - the agents waste a lot of time showing unsuitable properties as a result.  And I know at least one Brit who used to spend her holidays having agents take her round houses even though she was not really looking for anywhere to buy!
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Please don't believe all you read - there are a few agencies out there which, shall we say, have less professional integrity than others, but the vast majority are perfectly straightforward.

There are many reasons for different advertised prices, differences in agency fees being just one of them. A far more common reason is that the price expected by the seller varies. There are still agencies which over-value properties, hoping to get exclusive deals, and others which offer valuations to achieve a sale. In our experience of estate agency in this area it tends to be French-run agencies which over-value properties, though sellers of all nationalities often have a vastly inflated idea of what they ought to get for their houses. Note that this is a separate subject from UK-based agencies which add on extra fees for 'extra services'.

A bit of simple research and comparison and asking pertinent questions when you get to the agency offices will give you an idea of what sort of agency you are dealing with - as TU says we are all adults with a degree of intelligence. Even if you use a 'property finder' the ultimate decision still comes down to you. I'm not quite sure how you would get 'independent advice'; even something like the 'granny network' wants to make a sale to you at the end of the day. Paradoxically, using an agency that employs salaried negotiators, rather than agents commerciaux on commission, is perhaps the nearest you will get to 'independence'. But then I am biased, and probably would say that. [;)]

In answer to your question, yes, there are plenty of things that can go wrong, though the vast majority of people manage to buy houses in France without major disasters occurring. In all honesty, unscrupulous France-based agents, although they exist, come pretty far down the list of potential headaches. In the end, it all comes down to what a house is worth to you. If you are happy with the house and the price, then buy it. If not, then either walk away (it's definitely a buyer's market at present and you are spoilt for choice) or offer what you think it's worth.

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Well Seanie, let these 'people', who you think are targets  learn good french and then at least they can negociate and understand.

And even that won't be a cure as there will still be those that are conned because it happens everywhere.

 

I don't know how much the arbitration service you would like to see up and running would cost, but to have people who know every aspect and the A-Z of the whole thing,  it would cost a lot. So add on the equivilant of estate agents fees and notaires again and see how much people would like to pay these extras.

Also, we can already pay if we want. We can get bilingual lawyers involved, interpreters, building surveyors, geometres,  the thing is that these things cost a lot of money.

You really do seem to forget that the french themselves have these estate agents fees to pay when purchasing and they do not get a botty wiping service included as the brits do. AND I know french people who have been 'done' including friends who are from an old noble family and considered themselves in the know and well connected to boot.

 

Isn't this is a lot of hot air. As they say, buyer beware and more fool any of us if we do not, me included!

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".....prospective buyers; everything is loaded against them"

Rubbish, no-one is forced to use an estate agent, no-one is forced to pay over the odds for a house, no-one is forced to buy. If you don't like the system in France , go and buy elsewhere e.g. Spain where there seem to be real problems with title etc.

I do not believe that there is an anti-Brit conspiracy involving sellers, estate agents, notaires etc in France though there may be a feeling that some of the buyers have more money than sense so why not get as much as possible when you sell your house/barn/fermette ? Isn't that what we all would do ? An article is worth what someone will give you for it - and if advertising my house at different prices with a variety of agents gets me more money, why not ? The buyer MUST be satisfied with the price or he would not pay.

John

not

 

 

 

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Absolutely.  People choose to use an agent, they will tell you their fees for a house purchase.  If you don't like that idea, then you can knock on a door of a house that is for sale and discuss it with the owner themselves, then pop to their Notaires to confirm your offer.  It is not difficult to buy or sell without the intervention of an agent.  Our buyer bought privately and it was done and dusted in two months.  If there was a conspiracy against British buyers, half the agents would go broke, bums on seats is what they want, as with any business.  I heard that 600,000 UK people bought a house here last year and that 800,000 are expected to do the same in the coming year.   
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I am surprised at the level of animosity (at worst) and complacency (at best) shown by contributors to this forum towards future settlers from the UK and Ireland !

Most of what I've read is 'buyer beware'. I agree that any buyer is totally responsable and also has the choice to seek aid - no ? Isn't that free choice too ? But there is no aid available - yes there is no end to the means by which one can find a house, likewise finding the appropriate finances, in the UK or in France. There is no culture of property surveys in France (the newly introduced requirement of an asbestos and lead content doesn't count in my view) and as much of the property is rural, their arises topics unfamiliar with the average foreign buyer - water rights, rights of passage, new construction of roads/lotissements/parcs d'activities and long standing family feuds not always best resolved by notaires.

I do not believe either that there is an 'anti-Brit' conspiracy from sellers but there appears to have been an assumption that 'the Brits' have 'loadsamoney' and the proliferation of 'English spoken here' ads. from Estate Agents and the growth of them (there were two in our local town, now there are five) indicates that this is where the sale of properties are directed !

Yes, buyers can buy from elsewhere, I would always reccomend that anyone first approach the notaire(s) in their chosen area, then there is buy direct from the seller but all this involves time and effort and everyone seems so busy earning their crust in the UK nowadays that time spent doing ones' homework (as suggested by many of you) costs money.

I repeat, that I believe the new buyers don't want to make mistakes and are willing to pay to avoid those problems. Maybe that's why there is some little sympathy for them since I will assume that the majority that have contributed here have taken every measure to delve into the French culture and have found that even arising problems have turned out for the best in time. I know that my parents toured around several times a year for a couple of years before finding their house. I visited every notaire and agent during 4 weeks to find our house too.

Consider what the implications are if people keep coming over and paying whatever the asking prices are and then finding all sorts of complications ! A lot of disgruntled foreigners trapped here by their finances won't help our image which contrary to the English press is a good one (Calais and the booze runs excepted) !

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Do you really believe that problems buying would lead to disgruntled foreigners feeling trapped.

 

I honestly do not know what you want. I reckon that everything you have mentioned is out there at a price and we don't need another layer of service providers.

I don't live in one of those regions either that has 'english spoken' etc as some sort of selling point, buying and selling is between french people and it is exactly as it is for the brits buying, no well it isn't, it is quite expensive where I live, so estate agents earn even more, only as I said, the estate agents would not dream in a million years of providing extra services or help, so brits do get the better deal in those places where brits go......... and that little idea really puts me off wanting to even visit most of these regions.

 

If you really feel so strongly start an association under the loi 1901 and give your help for free or next to nothing.

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With respect then - in which area do you live ? I'm in the Vendée and I'm looking to cover the Grande Ouest but not the coast or large towns/cities !

It is rare though that I cross another 'Brit', something for which, I too am grateful - I came to France for France !

I do feel strongly but feel I can own a modest, HONEST living helping people avoid the traps and therefore integrate into French rural life so I'll pass on your idea of an association, I'm already involved in one where all the French bar one neighbour have deserted :-) !

Everything I have mentioned is out there at a price but that's the point - it's too expensive and the buyer pays all ! Considering that the average 'Brit' buyer near us is not paying much over 150000 euros and even a 90m² mushroom of 10 years is on the market for 170000+, it's no wonder that it is a buyers' market.

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[quote user="Seanie"]

I am surprised at the level of animosity (at worst) and complacency (at best) shown by contributors to this forum towards future settlers from the UK and Ireland !

[/quote]

What animosity ? Many of the people here have been there, done that etc and are giving future purchasers the credit of having the same level of intelligence as themselves. Not only that but there is help available - many people come here or to other French interest forums to ask for advice or read of others experiences and even if other forum members are unable to be specific they can point other forum members in the right direction.

I think you are trying to make yourself a job and all credit to you for that - but I suspect you are barking up the wrong tree!

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