no siriet number???

[A et K]

we have a friend who lives in france, near our property who is a handy man,, we need odd jobs done on our house, eg, carpentry ...if he has no sirite number and he does our work for nothing , can he still help us out???or is this a no no ???

His work is purely done on a we help him he helps us, although we wre not always in France when he does work...

Are we heading for trouble ???

[Mpprh]

Hi

I asked my accountant this question. i.e. can I do barter deals with friends ?

His response was "The French taxman does not understand the concept of friends !"

Peter

 

[Nick Trollope]

It is not, I'm afraid a matter of frienship, it is a matter of insurance. If you friend falls off your roof and spends 6 months in hospital, YOU will pay ALL of his treatment costs. Plenty of examples of this happening, which usually end up with the housholder losing everything.

If he can't/won't register, then there must be a reason. He may be willing to take the risk of working on the black, but are you?

 

[Val_2]

Is he going to guarantee his work for the next ten years too and come back every time there is something wrong - think not! Do not touch anyone who is not registered and insured, they can cost you your home and your liberty if you are not careful and being a foreigner is even worse as ignorance of the law is no excuse here. There are too many doing this in France,putting nothing into the economy and cheatig the genuine artisans who have to earn a living and pay high charges to do so.

[Suzyq]

I checked with our accountant and chambre des metiers a few years ago re the exact same question.  The answer came back No; the taxman doesn't recognise labour swops.

Youe biggest problem will be if he seen working on you home when you aren't there and a check is run on his papers; you may find yourself in trouble as well if any proof comes to light it's not such a friendly arrangement.  I think the most important problem is if he has an accident, regardless of the fiscal side of things, how will your insurance company deal with it, if he does make a claim on you.  Let's face it even the oldest friendships can fall apart if something untoward happens and how long have you known this chap?

If you don't have a french social security number you can't use cheque emploi, but is there a reason why he won't register as a micro enterprise and bring things into line for everyone he does odd jobs for?

Suze

[La Doretie]

Am  right in saying that once you register as a micro enterprise, you incur monthly costs - regardless of whether you are trading or not?

My husband is an electrician, and will eventually set up his own business (once house in the UK is sold).  Until then, he is working for a building company, as financialy we know whats coming in each month.  Whilst he is "salaried" he would also like to be able to do the odd private job.  He wouldn't do this without the proper insurance, siret no etc, but as we think this would mean further costs each month we haven't done so as yet.

Hope this makes sense - can anyone enlighten us?

[Quillan]

[quote]Am right in saying that once you register as a micro enterprise, you incur monthly costs - regardless of whether you are trading or not? My husband is an electrician, and will eventually set up his ...[/quote]

To answer your question and the original posters question many people try not to register because of the first two years cotistations which are fixed (First year.: 2538€ Second Year.: 3746€) after which you will then pay a percentage. These have to be paid 'up front' each year, because your husband is also working full time I would guess he must pay the lot as he already has an income so financially it will not, I think, make it viable.

The problem with working on the black is the matter of insurance and the liabilty not just to the worker but the employer as well. There was a bit in last months English speaking paper where somebody employed a guy on the black and there was an accident and the employer will have to support the worker and his family for a few years while he gets better, if he ever does. It has bankrupted them.

I have to say I do like the French Code Civil because you have more freedom that in the UK in some matters. The working on the black is one area where it's up to you. Every one knows the penalties so you can make your own choice. Everyone has employed, at some time or another, somebody on the black. I did it once, fortunatly it was nothing too dangerous but when the law was pointed out to me along with the possible costs to myself I have never done so since. It's just not worth the grief.

[Suzyq]

Yes, I think everyone has fallen into this trap, whether intentionally or not. 

There are some worrying rumours locally for those on both sides, one where a quite prominent family man has been questioned by the gendarmes and an announcement on a local radio station that the gendarmes are bringing in 4 extra bodies to deal specifically with the local black labour problem in the building trade.

And yes, there are fixed, estimated costs each month/quarter for the first 2 years trading, but you can ask for a reduction in these if your income is really below the limit they are set at,  Urssaf actually send a letter out now inviting you to do this.  The costs aren't lost as if by the third year you have shown in accounts that income was lower the first 2 years are readjusted to reflect this and you may find you are paying nothing for a while, while you catch up or even get a refund.

If you want to work in France there is no way round it, the social charges are high, but the income tax is low.  Planning before hand and making sure you have sufficient resources to cover this start up period is the only way to proceed.  It is after all the same for French people as well as us immigrants.

Suze

[Hereford]

Ref: comment by Suzyq.  I am pretty sure you cannot use the cheques d'emploi system anyway for "odd jobs". It can only be used for domestic work/baby/old people care and gardening. 

You, as employer, don't have to have any "numbers" but the person you employ must be known to the authorites because social charges are taken for every cheque you give your gardener/whatever.

We use them (as do other people who post on this forum) to pay our gardener. It is only slightly more expensive than paying "on the black" (at least the charges by some people working illegally seem very high) and you are covered if anything happens.

Do not "employ" people unless they can be paid legally.

Hereford

 

[Amlot]

"To answer your question and the original posters question many people try not to register because of the first two years cotistations which are fixed (First year.: 2538€ Second Year.: 3746€) after which you will then pay a percentage"

 

As far as I am aware from personal experience, the system assumes a level of income for years 1 and 2 on the Micro and allocates a cotisation accordingly but if you earn or are expecting to earn less then you just phone them up and they recalculate. this is what I have done and certainly in my first year trading the cotisations were manageable.