A quite extraordinary chat !

[Miki]

OK, most of us know that one cannot trade in France under the banner of

a Ltd company based in the UK and get away without paying the heavy and

often, inhibitive cotisations here ......right ?

Well, over the last 5 years or so, since being in Brittany, I have got

to know pretty well,  a couple of French chaps who mostly deal

with cars, accessories and tyres.  I have dealt with them and they

have become good acquaintances of

ours. Today, I was talking with them, in their office and I was saying

just how crazy the work laws were and how I thought France needed to free up

the work place and ease the restrictive cotisations, both for employer

and employee. We all agreed and also thought the the new cheque

d'emploi regulations might help a little for a few folks to get a bit

of work here and there but, in reality, whilst the continuing high

charges continued as they historically have always been, then France

will always have employment problems.

A bottle of the stuff from the Charente came out, we all said chin,

chin (don't know why they were looking at mine in the way they did

though !!)  and one of them said, " Of course, it is much better

if one simply registers their little company in the UK and has a good

accountant here to sort out all the financial side".

 I said but I thought that was a bit iffy and what about health and retirement issues, amongst other things ?

On further "digging" I was told that their accountant (based in central

Brittany) sorts it all out for them (as well as others they knew doing

the same thing), they pay private (yes Private) health cover and

pay  private retirement pensions. Although they both work together

in the same commerce, they have seperate Ltd companies and eveything

they earn is sorted out seperately. They pay no "cotisations" here at all.

I totally believe them, they showed me their cards, headed paper and

"company" stamp and all had their initials and Ltd Co after, plus an

address in the UK and a French address on the other side of the paper.

All of which I had never noticed before.

So there you go, don't ask me for any more info, as that was as far as

I wanted to go today. I personally am not interested in going along

that route (I would have done some years ago though !) so did not

pursue it any more. I might one day when the time is right again but I

don't want to appear too inquisitive and slowly, slowly catchee monkey

eh !!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Well, keep stalking them - it all sounds fascinating. Let me know if you need dibs for more firewater. [:D]

[Val_2]

Very confusing. An english man we did some work for on his property years ago suddenly appeared here registered in the UK magazines as a Ltd building co and then on Infobilan he is registered as a SARL. How can you be both?

[Albert the infopikey]

I'm more familiar with UK company law than French, but I believe that in both systems a company (Ltd or SARL) is a separate legal entity and an individual can hold two job with separate companies at once.

How all this goes when it comes to personal taxation and NI/cotisations is another story.

[Miki]

Ah yes, I brought up the N.I and self employed stamp and class 4

payments (I have been away from the UK for many years, so don't even

know about how much a  self employed stamp is and even if annual

class 4 payments still  exist ?, still no matter read on....) in

the UK and they had no idea if they were paying them but one of them

thought he wasn't.

No tax was paid either, as after the accountant had sorted out the affairs, none was supposedly liable.

I have been, like many of us, been hearing rumours for many years that

one can do what they are doing and have always asked the person who had

said it can be done, how  and who is he person? Never found that person until now.

The facts are, that there are many French companies are installed in

the south of England (and probably elsewhere), doing exactly the same

work as they were, when based in France but said to be saving a fortune

on their overall costs of employment and cotisations etc. I guess these

two enquired further and have taken advantage, with help from their

"expert" and are making it work for them.

Val, as stated, it is possible to have both but why and for what purpose, I would like to know the reason.

They drink Laurent Perrier Rosé by the bucket jond.....................[:D]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Miki"]

They drink Laurent Perrier Rosé by the bucket jond.....................[:D]

[/quote]

Whatever happened to cheap dates....

If you are ever able to get to the bottom of this, I would dearly like

to know how they do it. I'm not sure that I could face the additional

paperwork (bad enough as it is...), but after being told so many times

that this sort of thing just is not possible and I would quite like to

be able to say "oh, but it is!"

I've got some lemonade, a bottle of unlabelled grape spirit and some

blackcurrent syrup. I'll experiment and let you know what I can supply.

[Miki]

Cheap dates went of the window when we were nearly out of school and the gals found g & t's !!

If I find this out and, this will take time, bit by bit, even

then, knowing the French, I suspect something will be missing in

translation!! but still if I do, then I am bottling it and selling it on the net at well above scam prices

!! The name of the accountant would be nice though ! My fear is,

can you imagine if this is 100% correct and it gets out, as to just how

many Brits (and French come to that) will be doing it all this

way ?  And how long would it be, until the authorities put a bung in it to

stop the leak !

As for your drink.....we send rockets up with a similar melange ! It's all to do with the unlabelled stuff, apparently [:D]

[Owens88]

There are times in the year when even UK biggest companies (the utilities) bring in complete teams from abroad (generally Ireland) to do engineering work.There are times when I have worked abroad for UK companies, and in UK for overseas companies.

All of the above is well known and 'kosher' (just to avoid saying 'above board' ) and totally allowed by eu law. What I 'thought' was different is that if the 'working IN France' bit exceeds a certain amount/timescale, then France wanted a local registration. And also if one is living IN France, then ...

Do keep up the detective work. Insure your liver though.

 

[SaligoBay]

Not sure if this is really the same thing (I am a bear of very little brain, after all)......... http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,,1711741,00.html

Anyone fancy setting up an Expat Undertaker business?  [:)]

[Owens88]

>The "country of origin" principle, in which the proverbial Polish plumber could have worked in France on a temporary basis according to his country's rules, has been removed. Under new provisions, France would not be allowed to impose unfair restrictions, but the plumber would have to abide by French labour and health laws.

 

And who could challenge that ?

 It would have been downright stupid for the 'country of origin' principle to have become law.

[Jo53]

I know someone in the services/consultancy type bracket who has been working thru a UK Ltd co and living in France for years. They pay themselves PAYE from their company, and declare all their revenues to the French impots. They are covered for healthcare under the reciprocal EU country arrangements as they pay NI in the UK. They are convinced it is completely above board, and the French Impots know the situation. They have an expensive accountant. I think a key part of it is being vague about how long you intend to stay in France when you first set it all up (not that big a lie really - few of us are certain about the future after all).

But when I looked into doing it myself (without the expensive accountant) I didn't think it was possible. This friend set up about 6 years ago; maybe things were more lax then.

Jo