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Cost of Living


ali-cat
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And then there are the things that I no longer need:

- Overpriced, poor tasting coffee, twice per working day from Starbucks or similar, £3.40 / day or about £780 pa

- Sandwich lunch, Pret à Manger, of dubious nutritonal value, £4.00 / day or £920

- Tube fares - £940

- Sharp suits (obligatory for a snake-oil salesman like myself) - £1200

- Gym membership - £1800

- Residential parking permit - £120

That's (without thinking too hard) £5760, or near enough €8000 that I

no longer need to spend. Gross that up to take account of tax and NI

and its over €1000 per month. Sure the cost of living in France is not

low, but when I think about the sort of unnecessary crud I had to work

to spend money on, I do feel better off.

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[quote user="SaligoBay"]

Hear hear, Cerise and TU!   Poverty is for the birds.  So many people on these Phrench phorums say how lovely it is to live simply and all that.   They seem to positively enjoy scraping around every day to save every sou they possibly can.

I think it's all mince, and I think they're all just playing at being poor, because they can afford to, and because it's a novelty.  There is always the option of going back to Britain, for example.  The genuinely hard-up people I know do not like it at all, and would like nothing more than to have a bit more money.

We were never huge spenders anyway, but I don't like HAVING to be a non-spender!  It's not fun, and it doesn't make me feel morally better in any way at all.

Rant over. [:)] 

 

[/quote]

I love saving money! Every time I had a payrise in the UK, I never felt better off for long because I would just find more rubbish to spend my money on.

Paul and Linda McCartney used to play at being poor, when they went to Mull of Kintyre! I'm not, I haven't got a stash of money hidden away  and as for going back to the UK as you said to me not that long ago , you must think that I am free to travel the globe at will. [:)]This is my home now.

I don't think being a little more thrifty is necessarily a bad thing . Yes, of course there are people in France who are probably a lot more hard up than many Brits but it is all relative. I have considerably less money than I did in the UK and that makes me financially poorer but it doesn't bother me that we have to go without certain things and it doesn't make me feel morally superior. But as St Armour said, it makes you appreciate other things more.

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Mais non!  Don't get me all wrong!  I'm not talking about saving money, I'm talking about not having any money to save!

The word "payrise" is interesting too.  As far as I'm aware, it's an unknown concept in France!   Maybe 1% every 10 years if you're lucky?   That's what I hear, anyway.

And I didn't mean "they can go back to Britain if they don't like it here" in THAT way!   I meant that it's a possibility for many people, especially if they've kept a property in the UK, that's all.   It's a safety net, if you like, so complete destitution isn't really a possibility.

What I don't like is the lack of hope that things will change (I'm talking generally here).  French wages aren't suddenly going to go sky-high.  It's more likely that the 1500-euros-a-year property taxes will go even higher, and that the cost of living will rise, and the cost of petrol will go up, long before wages do. 

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[quote user="SaligoBay"]

What I don't like is the lack of hope that things will change (I'm talking generally here).  French wages aren't suddenly going to go sky-high.  It's more likely that the 1500-euros-a-year property taxes will go even higher, and that the cost of living will rise, and the cost of petrol will go up, long before wages do. 

[/quote]

But, SB, don't you think this is a universal problem, not specifically a French one?  Minimum wage in the U.S. is going nowhere fast, while costs for things like healthcare, petrol, food, etc. keep going up.  We, for example, were paying the equivalent of 8000€ per year for health insurance which didn't include dental or optical and had high deductibles for prescriptions, etc.

I suppose that for people who come from high-paid jobs, then it is a bit of a shock to really cut back, but we were doing that anyway before we moved.  We're in a rural village that has all services, so I have entire weeks where I don't take the car out at all.  I think we've barely put 2000 km on it in the last year.  We socialize more than we ever did in L.A., but it costs us way less, because we invite people over or go to their  homes and usually we walk.  I can cook way cheaper than we can eat in a restaurant.  We'll spend evenings playing cards (anyone here love Tarot?) or talking.  Lots of our neighbors give us fresh produce in the summer and if I don 't buy prepared foods, it's still less than my food bills in the States.

PG

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You were wondering if anyone likes Tarot, PossumGirl

I too have a couple of sets of tarot cards & rune stones. I also have my three familiars (cats), pentangle hanging in the front of my car & I dress like a hippie - nothing witchie about me!!!



 

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I guess we're living different lives, PossumGirl!

Very few of our neighbours grow any veg at all.   Mr SB gets in about 7.30pm, so we eat about 8, then not long after that it's time for the young SB loinfruit to go to bed.   Most people round here are pretty much the same, especially over winter, when there's very little socialising at all.

My friend in Lyon tried to teach us Tarot when we were there, but it was way too much for my little brane!   In 6 years, that is my only Tarot experience.  Maybe he just explained it badly, but I didn't really understand how you choose your partner or anything.  Silly me!

Someone from Brittany did tell me that this area is perhaps the least sociable in the whole of France (of course!).  Apparently it's because they know they're going to have a reasonably long, hot summer, so they don't feel the need to do anything special over winter, because it's not too pénible.   And when summer comes, what do they do?  Sit around!   I don't know, but a young neighbour who's just been up to Brittany came back saying how extremely friendly everyone is compared to round here, so maybe there's some truth in it.

TU is right, lack of payrises is nothing new in France, and that's what I meant when I talked about lack of hope.  It's just there, all the time.  Someone must know..........since the war, has France had a golden age, where things suddenly got better and people felt confident about life or has it always been like this?    

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I know Postie, we are all spoiled rotten.

I'm a bit worried actually. I sent Ali a list of our annual costs and she hasn't come back to me yet.

I think she's a lot more organised than me, and when she adds it all up (which I didn't) she's going to tell me I'm overspending by about 10,000E a year. LOL

Don't worry Ali, only joking (I hope...)

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

I stood back in amazement at all that extravagance St A. I have never lived like that.  Apart from the few years scratting and worrying about money when the kids were young, we don't live in genteel poverty either or whatever is the going term for it these days and I would most certainly not want to.

[/quote]

That's not extravagance TU, that's London living!!!  If I were truly extravagant I would have wasted even more money.  In most of my contemporaries eyes in the UK we lived a pretty frugal life.

And I don't know whether you're referring to me or not by your comment about "genteel poverty" but I can assure you that whilst I realise now how much I did waste in the UK and how I appreciate birthdays and Christmas much more now, I most certainly do not enjoy being quite as hard up as we are.  It's not a game, we can't (and don't want to) go back to the UK on a whim if things don't work out; I frequently have sleepless nights wondering if we're going to get enough bookings to pay all the bills, never mind any extras - but after all that, I'd still rather be here than there.

An impoverished life in rural France is still a million times better than the treadmill of south east England.

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[quote user="postie"]

CoL to Tarot Cards - funny old world

We are from Africa & Europeans cannot begin to imagine what FRUGAL means -  GO FOR IT ALI - you only live once!!![/quote]

They're not Tarot Cards, postie!   It's a card game that just happens to be called Tarot. 

Indeed, there are children in Africa who would be ravi to have tripe sausage for dinner, but it's not an argument that you can use to get out of paying your impôts, property taxes, car insurance, EDF bill, etc. in France.  

Nor does it make Brussels Sprouts taste any better to an 8-yr-old! [:D]

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[quote user="St Amour"]

An impoverished life in rural France is still a million times better than the treadmill of south east England.

[/quote]

After all, the treadmill is just as uncertain economically as life as a

self-employed provider of (quality) accommodation. There was always the

threat of losing one's job, and given the level of outgoings that one

was expecting to sustain, a couple or so months of no income could mean

ruin. No joke with a young family. One of the reasons that I feel more

secure now is that I have a lot less far to fall.

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No the genteel poverty was not directed specifically at you St Amour, but it seems to have all been a theme on this board since I joined it and I will never understand it.  There again I will never understand anyone feeling that they 'had' to live in a certain way, even as it seems to have made so many so unhappy and with a desire to abandon all and flee. Again not directed at you  specifically St Amour, just reflecting on all those things posters have said over the years.

Extravagant, you betchya it is. Sounds plain old wasteful,there again I am from Yorkshire, bit like the scots, they say, only with the generosity knocked out. If I didn't know better I could be left thinking that London folks are too posh to make up their own sarnies. I know that isn't true as we have friends who live in London  and some of them take packed lunches, even a girl we know who works in central London and she always takes a packed lunch. And when I worked we always has facilities for making hot drinks, is it so different these days.

I always say that it is expensive to go to work, that statement would never include money on bought food or drink.

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

 There again I will never understand anyone feeling that they 'had' to live in a certain way, even as it seems to have made so many so unhappy and with a desire to abandon all and flee. Again not directed at you  specifically St Amour, just reflecting on all those things posters have said over the years.

[/quote]

I think this desire comes from having to work harder and longer in the UK, with less to show for it. In the nicest possible way, this may be something that you cannot directly relate to / or not experienced ,having lived in France since the early 80s. You see a different set of problems in France that many Brits cannot identify with by virtue of your experiences.

I think you can either identify with this or you don't, and in many ways it must be nice not to.

 

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[quote user="SaligoBay"]

I guess we're living different lives, PossumGirl!

....

TU is right, lack of payrises is nothing new in France, and that's what I meant when I talked about lack of hope.  It's just there, all the time.  Someone must know..........since the war, has France had a golden age, where things suddenly got better and people felt confident about life or has it always been like this?    

[/quote]

I have to say, SB, that I think we're in a particularly warm and friendly village.  Around the area, when we mention Chalabre, almost everyone has said that it has a great reputation.  And, as sociable as it is in winter, it's even more so in summer, because most people sit on benches or chairs out in front of their houses every night and visit with each other until dusk.  Also, the "summer" people are here, so we've got more of a crowd to boot.

As to France having a golden age, it wouldn't matter if they had or had not.  It doesn't really appear to be part of the French psyche to be happy about money or jobs.  No matter how things are, everyone complains.  It's really just the way things are.

PG

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