ali-cat Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Just back from our 1st house hunting trip to Charente/North Dordogne. We have fallen in love with the area but now our only concern is now can we afford to live in France? I'm not asking anyone, out there, what you earn - only if you think we will have enough money to survive (& have a few treats!!).We are both medically retired, in our 40's & will have an annual pension of about £12,000 (gross) & about £5,000- £7,000 a year, in savings, to live on. We have no kids, 3 cats, will be growing our own veggies, do not extravagantly spend money on luxuries & intend to quit smoking (not to sure how that will go, though). If possible we will also be buying a property with seperate accommodation to supplement our income, if necessary.Please let me know if you think we can make a go of it - I really would hate to look back in 10 years time, still sitting in Northern Ireland, on Incapacity Benefit & wish we had been braver & had made the move.Any advice is welcome - good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Difficult to answer without knowing a lot more info, but on balance, I'd say "Just about". Your health situation needs to be thoroughly researched beforehand though, in terms of social security coverage.The thing that I would counsel you to plan for though is the amount of capital expenditure you're likely to get through in your 1st year or so of settling in. There are so many things to get / replace as a result of making a major move. Probably no different to what you'd have to do for a move within the UK, but the cost can mount up frighteningly. You also need to budget for those necessary trips 'back home' to see relations etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanche Neige Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There are so many things to get / replace as a result of making a major move. Probably no different to what you'd have to do for a move within the UK, but the cost can mount up frighteningly. You also need to budget for those necessary trips 'back home' to see relations etc.Absolutely, unforeseen costs such as these and the house renovations if applicable can add up and escalate as Ian quite rightly says.Bon courage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le bouffon Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Not sure by you having £12000 pension and £5-7000 per year savings when you say you both are not working and are well below 65(none of my business),but if by pension your mean a UK benefit,just make sure you can still receive it once living in France,you might be in for a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 That isn't such a big amount (me, MOH and our menagerie would have a job surviving on that permanently). It also very much depends on your lifestyle and the regular outgoings (such as heating costs, rates and utilities), as well as maintenance, on the property/ies you will own. ...and don't forget folks' first year here is generally spent in holiday mode (sightseeing, eating out, shopping etc), so the money just vanishes!! On the plus side, living out in the sticks means that you spend less than living in a town and passing tempting shops!As the previous poster says, check that you will be able to transfer your IvB permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Thanks for the replies, already received. The pension is my husbands Civil Service Medical pension, which can be paid into a French Bank & I may or my not be able to continue receiving Incapacity Benefit - but didn't include it in the figures. I should also have said that the house we buy will be mortgage free, which can be a large part of the expenditure. Any more thoughts would be really appreciated, as the hubby is concerned - I tend to go with the flow & see what happens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 You must remember that even on a pension or sickness benefit, you will still have bills and taxes to pay, heating and lighting is not cheap, neither is the cost of living that much cheaper than in the UK. You say you are going to grow your own veg, great idea, but what are you going to do in the winter when you cannot get out in the garden?If your £12k figure is net income in France then you may be OK, but local taxes can be quite expensive it depends on house size, amenities and location, remember the exemptions on these local taxes here may not apply to you. Medical treatment is not free and you will certainly pay social charges even though your O/H's pension may be taxed in the UK. There is also house and car insurance to pay for. You will also pay for your CMU on that income unless you are entitled to an E121 and if you need medical treatment you would be wise to get a top up medical insurance policy, at your ages you can say goodbye to 60€ to 100€ a month if you get a decent one. The other word of caution already mentioned is that the UK Government wants to get people off the sick and back to work, to continue to receive incapacity benefit you may have to be available for work in the UK and see a UK doctor, although I notice that you have wisely discounted that income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Korrigan Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Medical pension...? Not for a bad back I hope if you are going to grow your own veg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le bouffon Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Nice one,I missed that one.Savings of what £5000 to£7000 per year means £100000 capital and a £12000 pa,sure that would be nearly twice smic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 My advice would be to keep your savings for emergencies, and keeptopping it up as a savings account. There is no end to unexpectedexpenses. eg last year we had a huge car repair bill, expensiveemergency dental treatment ( only a tiny amount re-imbused) need to goover to uk with extra expenses there. This year we are going to have toupdate our fosse septique among other things. But we just about manageon the amount you have in pensions. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 [quote user="le bouffon"]Nice one,I missed that one.Savings of what £5000 to£7000 per year means £100000 capital and a £12000 pa,sure that would be nearly twice smic.[/quote] Le Bouffon - excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is the mimimum wage in France. I'm not sure if you meant we would both be on about twice smic or not. It would be good to know how close to the knuckle we would be!! Oh & by the way - I am retired because of my back! - but the hubby will be responsible for the veggie patch. I'll just tell him what to plant & when to pick them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Once your E121 expires, I think this will bump up the amount you have to pay for medical cover also.Ron is the chap to ask about that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I would agree with Zeb and Ron. You might JUST make it. Itdepends on so many things that you have not mentioned and perhaps don'tknow yet.The fact that you will not have a mortgage is a lovely thing !Some of the basic items to tally up:Home insurance (can be paid monthly or otherwise to suit yourbudget, but still has to be paid) You can ask what previous owner paidOR get a quote prior to buyingCar insurance (same as above)If car is used inspection every two years if licensed in France - 51 euros for inspectionEDF (ask what the house was paying prior to your taking it over - you can get this from EDF)Water bill (ask what previous owner paid - and determine how many people lived in the house previously to try to compare)Again, this can be obtained from the water company - owners tend to fib on these issues.Home heating - is it fuel, solar, electric? - we have fuel, butwhat-ever you have, this can be a shock - it was to us, but our houseis big and oldHealth coverage - can also be determined prior to making themove - speaking French would help enormously when contacting the FrenchHealth authorities to verify/ask anything.Dental care - regular care is quite reasonable - anything else can do a real number on the budget.Petrol - will you need to do a lot of driving - cost me 50 euros to fill up my tank. Food - whatever you spend there, you could spend here. Obviously this varies from person to person.Garden care - will you have a garden? Will you need amower, strimmer, etc. or will you bring them with you. Will yoube the one to do the yard work or will you need help? Anyplanting will need to be accounted for in plant/tree purchase,fertilizer, and maintenance products.White goods - will you be buying them here or bringing them withyou? Prices for these things can be determined prior to the moveif you are here for a visit.Tax d'Habitation - can be verified by thelocal Tresor Public (can change somewhat from year to year, but wehaven't encountered huge changes) due during last quarter of the yearTax Fonciere - can be verified by the local TresorPublic (same as above unless you plan to put a pool in or somethingthat could raise the bill somewhat) due during last quarter of the year- can't rmember - one is Oct. the other is Dec.Pool - if there isn't one, then it is a muteissue - if there is one, determine the annual maintenance fees - easyto get data.Internet / Phone/ Portable - Not a huge addition to the budget, but when the budget is tight, it shouldn't be forgottenWood - do you have a fireplace? Don't forget the cost of wood - depending upon how much you use, it isn't cheapTV Tax - 116 euros per year unless you have NO TV in your houseCost of Xmas (or the like), birthdays, vacations, outings - you can say you will forgo those types ofluxuries, but HAVING to might have an impact on your true happiness.. Guests - will you be hosting any guests? This too can break the budget.Regular home / garden / car / mower, etc. maintenance - We have our chiminey swept every other year 60Euros. We have our fuel heating system opened up and cleanedevery other year 140 euros. We have our car maintenance done -liquid, filter changes, etc. around every six months - cost varries,but avg. 70 euros. Mower gets air filter, oil and sparkplug changed, with blade sharpened or replaced depending on use, everytwo years - 40 euros.I'm sure I have left out a million and one things, but the above arepretty basic. As has been stated, there are always the unexpectedthings that occur - plumbing problems, dental issues, etc.,but if you are fairly confident about the basic things, you can get abetter fix on what you can handle in the "out of the ordinary"occurences.Good luck. I think it is very wise to be determining this BEFORE you make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le bouffon Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I am somewhat more than bemused,you want to move to France and dont know how much things are cost of living etc.Go on tell you do not speak french eithier,some folks on here will hold your hand and tell you what you want to hear,others will tell you as it is,there is no sub. for doing your own leg work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 [quote] Le Bouffon - excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is the mimimum wage in France. [/quote]Lack of knowledge excused. The SMIC is 8.03 euros an hour, minus whatever they can find to minus from it. http://www.insee.fr/fr/indicateur/smic.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyC Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I've done some calculations and agree that Ali will have about twice what a French couple(both working full time) living on minimum wage would bring in. She also has a decent amount of savings which said French couple might well not have, she has no mortgage or rent, which this mythical couple would probably have to pay, no children and the possibility of some rental income. We often are told about the number of French people who have jobs earning the minimum wage, so this scenario is not unusual. I know also that one person's survival income is another person's wealth and everyone has unexpected expenditure. However, given the above facts I can't see how anyone could question the possibility of managing on considerably more than twice what a typical French family might have to live on. If I've missed something somewhere I would be glad to know, as I am making my own calculations at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyC Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Apologies for the total miscalculation in the above post, I can only blame the alcohol and misunderstanding of an earlier reply. I got carried away with multiplying by 2. Ali and her husband would be on a similar gross income to a French couple who were both working full time on the minimum wage. In addition, they would not be paying rent or mortgage , have no children and have 2 possible sources of extra income. Not as brilliant as I worked out before, but, I would have thought, more than manageable.Apologies for the c*ck up, I think I better go to bed.You'll recognise me when we eventually move out; I'll be the middle-aged English woman begging in Periguex because she thought she had twice as much money coming in than she actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Excellent! I'll see you there then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le bouffon Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 A french wage slip has an A4 full of deductions,and then you get another load of paper work from the taxman.The french just love their paperwork.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Thank you, to everyone, who have probably done more calculations on our behalf than we have!! Moving from two full-time wages to both suddenly being retired hit us very quickly - & we were worried that we may have overlooked some "French" expenses. Le Bouffon said - "do your own leg work". We have done what we can from Northern Ireland. We have bought every book, magazine, web searched our fingers to the bone & watched every TV programme possible. Unfortunatley, it's not easy for us to get over to the Charente/Dordogne area, with no local direct flights. It took us 13 hours to get from Belfast to Angouleme last week!! My back problems only add to the difficulties - which I hope will be drastically improved by the French weather & lifestyle.The forum members have been more than helpful with the various queries I have had - everything from cat food to hair straighteners!! Thank you all, again.Ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-cat Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 [quote user="Debra"]13 hours - you're lucky! A supposedly 5 hour trip to Dover (according to the AA) usually takes us 9 hours and then we still have the same, or more, at the other end to do a supposedly 7.5 hour trip! So - about 19 hours for the journey, assuming we can spell each other driving and sleeping and don't stop (which the kids wouldn't be too happy with). Hubby off on a trip on his own tomorrow, so it'll be interesting to see how long that takes - needing sleep breaks but not needing kiddy breaks![/quote]Ouch!! I take it back!! I thought Belfast to Leeds, Leeds to Paris CDG, TGV to Angouleme was bad!! It should be better in the summer, though, with better connections to Bordeaux or Bergerac - I hope!! Just bugs me that Belfast Airport has the nerve to call itself "International"!! They only fly to Paris or Nice & neither flight can connect with the train service. Aaaggghhh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Is Dublin better served for flights to France than Belfast? I thought Ryanair did flights from Dublin to various places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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