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Everyman and his mower...


Ty Korrigan
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Hello,

 I have noticed something this year that was missing or unnoticed during my first two years of working here.

The number of Brits registering for 'Property services'...

What is this exactly?

What is this 'trade' that few French register as  but seems solely to be the reserve of  the Brits here...?

They are involved in everything! Every metier from renovation to gardening. Turning gites around and fingering every pie proffered.

I am thinking that I should re-register as this as I have more than gardening to my bow and speak reasonable French which is an aptitude that few seem to possess judging by the publicity solely printed in English dotted around the Point Verts and Boulangeries...

Just what are the limits to this 'Property services'... What is the official remit of this trade...? Is it a commerce, metier or some other thing...?

Answers please!

P.S... They undercut my price heavily but I can't figure out how they do this and yet pay the social charges....

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Perhaps sub contracting fingers every pie proffered and gets round the social charges. It is possible to offer Propery Services charge a management fee and contract everything else out. I could say more but wont.

 

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I didn't think you had to be able to speak French for this trade as it seems aimed at just the Brit market as they seem to be the only ones stupid enough to pay without checking if a person is legal or not. [;-)]

You could by a second hand theodalite (what surveyors use?) on Ebay. get your wife to hold the 'stick', read a book on land surveying and set your self up as a land surveyor because they don't have 'Land Surveyors' in France [:)] .

As somebody wrote in the forum once, if theres a way to make money and rip fellow Brits off and pay no tax or social charges it's been thought of so I am afraid you are a bit behind in that respect. [:D] . I was told recenly that I am a fool (nothing different there some might say) because I am in the best ever position to put all the cash in my pocket and pay nothing. But then I am the fool that always gets caught, nobody else seems to, so I pay up like I am told I should.

There is one thing that makes me smile. Residency is now defined as tax resident i.e. you have to fill in a tax form. This is going to screw a few people who thought they were being clever when they sell up and move on and find they have massive tax bills to pay, oh dear what a shame.

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I too, am sick of being ripped-off by Brit "builders" - and seeing others ripped-off by those who we always thought were decent.

I also doubt if "we" can do anything about it - French law and the idiotic rules of these Forums are pretty much against the little people in favour of the "Artisan". C'est la vie.

Anyone want to do something about it?

 

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[quote user="Quillan"]

There is one thing that makes me smile. Residency is now defined as tax resident i.e. you have to fill in a tax form. This is going to screw a few people who thought they were being clever when they sell up and move on and find they have massive tax bills to pay, oh dear what a shame.

[/quote]

If you have a holiday home in France and sell it do you pay different % in Tax on the proffit to if it is/was a permanent residence?

 

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Nick - Seems we sing of the same sheet then. There were quite a few people round here that I 'respected' when I got here but 4+ years in and you start to see them for what they really are. What gets me is these people that employ them, they come to a different country, can't or won't speak the language and give the job to the first person that comes along and have problems and the authorities don't want to know and have even been known to laugh. Would they do the same thing back in the UK, no of course not they would want to see the work and check that the person is registered. So in a way they get what they deserve but of course the honest Brits that come and work and pay their tax etc loose out. The question is though would you really want to work for these type of people?

Opas - You should get the LF magazine theres loads of stuff on this. The answer on how much you pay depends on many factors but you obviously pay the least if you are resident in France (now determined by the fact you pay tax here) and if it is a second home or not. You also should be aware that if your assets including property, belongings and savings top 750,000€ you will pay the new wealth tax. Again further details in the latest LF magazine. I know I keep refering to it but the way both are calculated now is to long to put in a post. The wealth tax thing takes two A4 pages in the magazine and the capital gains one on selling houses 3.

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Opas

If you are French resident and sell your maison secondaire you could pay around 26/27 %

If you are non French resident and sell your maison secondaire you could pay around 16%

If you are French resident and sell your main house under normal conditions you would not pay any Tax

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Getting back to the original query, I suspect that many Brits have

found that unskilled labour of this sort is easy pickings, given the

amount of  Brits with holiday homes here, who need to keep the

place maintained and secure. Many of these people who still have their

main home in the UK are pretty well off, often haven't bothered to

learn the language, and naturally turn to a fellow Brit to do the work.

Also,the amount of advertising I see for French people to train as

paysagistes also suggests to me that there is plenty of call for them.

In our humble little town, I know of at least 3 British 'property

services', none of whom can be found in the 'Pages Jaunes', but as far

as I know pay their taxes and cotisations. Having said that, I suspect

it is an easy trade to 'forget' to declare an odd job or two.

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I agree they are many english speakers who have second homes here who find it easier to employ other english speakers. But I wouldn't describe keeping a property maintained and secure as unskilled labour.

I think you will find that many people who are self employed in France (whatever their nationality) part declare their earnings to offset the heavy cotisations - it's catch 22.
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Hi

I would stick with your present registration, it’s your customers guarantee you are qualified.

 

I agree it is the language difficulty that forces some Brits to employ these people, (a small percentage of them cowboys).

 I travelled on a Feb. Wednesday crossing- the cheap day, I waited in the Brittany ferry (Roscoff) in Plymouth, and it was packed.  There were loads of British plumbers, builders, carpet fitters, and electricians with their transits/vans. Also a Steptoe like army of Brits with their old vans, lorries, diggers and converted horseboxes, must give the port staff some amusement!

 I suspect the tradesmen would work to the best British standards, but because regulations in France are so different, the work would eventually have to be redone by ‘French qualified’ artisans to conform to French standards.

I think it is so important to employ locally recommended tradesmen. Go and look at their previous/current work, they are normally delighted to show you. A good tradesman is in much demand and you may wait for several months.

 These ‘property services’ workers are O.K. to mow the lawn etc. they can’t do much damage there!!!

 

‘Les conseilleurs ne sont pas les payeurs!’

 

Levisiteur

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[quote user="Quillan"]

I didn't think you had to be able to speak French for this trade as it seems aimed at just the Brit market as they seem to be the only ones stupid enough to pay without checking if a person is legal or not. [;-)]

[/quote]

And then there are those who think they can do the bare minimum do register and appear legal. They can pop up on forums and 'harvest' customers and think that they can flannel their way out of anything. I have found the court system to be most effective in dealing with one lot.

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And please don't forget, this is not unique to France.  We see many builders starting up in the UK undercutting the true tradesmen and not paying their way through taxes.  In our town we see a new white van about the place every month.  Where I live everyone knows everyone and it is therefore easy to identify those who know nothing about the trade they are offering.

Do you think it is a thing just the brits do?  

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[quote user="Ty Korrigan"]Hello,

 I have noticed something this year that was missing or unnoticed during my first two years of working here.

The number of Brits registering for 'Property services'...

What is this exactly?

What is this 'trade' that few French register as  but seems solely to be the reserve of  the Brits here...?

They are involved in everything! Every metier from renovation to gardening. Turning gites around and fingering every pie proffered.

I am thinking that I should re-register as this as I have more than gardening to my bow and speak reasonable French which is an aptitude that few seem to possess judging by the publicity solely printed in English dotted around the Point Verts and Boulangeries...

Just what are the limits to this 'Property services'... What is the official remit of this trade...? Is it a commerce, metier or some other thing...?

Answers please!

P.S... They undercut my price heavily but I can't figure out how they do this and yet pay the social charges....

[/quote]

When I first registered it was as a carpenter, I actually wanted to register as an 'odd job man' or bricoleur but was told as this was not a recognised trade then i would have to choose a trade, I had none but had worked for several years for Property maintenance companies in the London Area mainly repairing/replacing sash windows on old housing stock, so armed with my references I registered as a carpenter...I thought I would make a living building book cases, fitting shelves, small works, as time went by my work changed and I found that I was doing more 'Guardian d'Maison type of work, Gardening, Maintenance etc, so last year I changed my registration, tried to find out what I should be registered as and with whom I should be registered, Chambre d'Metiers or Chambre d'Commerce, at the Chambre d'Metiers in Cahors after explaining how my work had changed I was advised to register as 'Espace Verte' and so I did and it cost me... I am allowed to do Gardening, Small Works and strangely 'ornamental gardens' but NO Electrical, Heating or Plumbing, I mainly have just one 'Patron' that keeps me in work all year round and I also do a holiday changeover, I probably charge less for my Gardening than Ty but then it's my guess that he is much more of a 'gardener' than me. I struggle to pay my cotizations especially with the added complication of changing registration midway through the year, but I am content and I do not seek more work, I don't advertise anywhere and I give a very good service to my client. I hope that Ty's comments are not aimed at someone like me? If you care to look up my registration you are welcome (David Goodwin, DEGAGNAC), I am still shown as a carpenter though as the wheels grind very slowly ansd I am still owed money from overpaid cotizations to one group when I am now paying cotizations to another group...still I smile and am happy to be living in the peace and tranquility of France...far from the madding crowd, sorry if this does not make a lot of sense..it does to me[:)]

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All this talk of Brits ripping off other Brits reminds me of a story in our local rag a couple of weeks back; the report was of a couple of 'English' blokes going around in a van and offering to tarmac people's drives.  They were targeting old French folk and sometimes doing the work even when it had been refused, or doing more than they were asked to, always doing a crap job and then demanding a rip-off pricewith some degree of menace.  Just like being back in Britain, really!

Phil

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Hello,

 I am registered as an Entretien Espaces verts which limits me to walls one metre in height and general garden duties such as grass and hedge cutting. I am a 'commercant' as I offer a service.

 Joe 'Paysagist' can build patios and larger garden features. Driveways, groundworks and arboricultural works.

 He is an artisan and so a metier and pays slightly more in social charges and alot more in assurance.

However... There seems to be a catagory of workers who take on general renovations/bricolage/gardening/anything under the sun...

If such a catagory exists then I should be interested in re-registering as this so as to be able to take on a broader range of jobs and so make a better living here.

 Now what I charge is a reflection of my investment in materials and quality of service.

 If I used an old saloon car and a bricomower then I could charge 20euros and make a living but if I had 50k in van, mowers, tractor etc then 45euros+ per hour would be required.

 Next week I am building a base for an above ground pool for a client. Out of my official remit but work offered can't be turned down lightly...

 

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As I said at the time I did my Stage in Cahor there was no way of registering as a Bricoloeur or Handyman although midway through the course a french gut who had stated at the beginning introductions that he was a 'plombier' becane a....'bricoloeur' and even described himself as doing 'a bit of this and a bit of that' which did make all the others titter but did not result in him being thrown out on his ear, Ty, I really don't know if my registration is correct and I have the idea that no-one French or English has any real idea, if by doing what I do is wrong then I am sorry but, I have registered, I pay my dues, I do my work and hopefully don't step outside of my authorised work...mind you the thought of even €20.00 an hour sounds pretty good.....oh and I do not run an old saloon car but I do use a bricomower but that belongs to my patron.

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