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Thinking of moving to the Limousin with no job - ARE WE MAD!!


mark1963
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[quote] Whats the worst that

can happen, you run out of money !!![/quote]

Well having seen  families split apart through the stress of being in a foreign

land
and all the problems they encounter, no job, no comprehension of the language

and the way of life, money swiftly dropping down to zero and work never

arriving, then the finality of having to go back, far worse off than when they

left and to what and where is a little worse than a simple sentence.

I and no doubt others on here, have seen all that and in our case all too

often. I could quite easily say just how we have done alright, how we have

earned a decent income and thereby anyone can do it.................. We knew

France extremely well before we arrived, we spoke enough French  to get by

immediately, we hit the ground running by getting the place up and running

within months and earned enough in that first year to cover our living costs

and from that base, we have never looked back as they say............. but we

were lucky in many ways and everyone needs a slice of that. All 3 businesses

were in the right place, the first two we were not sure about but with hard

graft they succeeded, the last one was right in many ways from the very start.

The bottom line, is that we knew what we were buying, had more than

fighting chance of seeing us survive. We had no plan B and that quite

honestly

meant hard work from day one to ensure that we gave ourselves the best

chance

of making it.  So why would I say, don't come without a full plan

if one

needs work to survive?  Well, I have for the last, say 5-8 years,

more in

the last 5 years (but some even as long ago as 15 years), seen so many

go back,

as they simply could not earn enough to survive and only the equity

from their house

sale has helped many stay as long as they actually did. And you may now

ask, if

we could do it anyone can...sure but when we came over, competition was

pretty

low, now it is getting to be wall to wall B&B's and Gîtes and, if

that is

not the line of income to be taken, then yes, some Brits have found

work with

French companies but the work for the greater part is at smic rates and

thus

poorly paid but the greater majority will NOT find work. Look at the

chomage

percentages to see how desperate work is for the French and who do you

suppose

will be given the work when any does become available ? Then there are

those that have a trade, well they have a fighting chance, if they

learn the language,  get registered and work hard, they may well

find an area that will see their trade in demand and do OK.

Sorry but to say what is the worse thing that can happen (I won't even

bother to say anything about the fake sun tan part), might be from 

someone probably speaking from a position that will never have to worry to much

about that consequence. I say again, I have seen the terrible fallout from a

distressed family and one or two have been horror stories, believe me ! Get it

right from the start and have a Plan B if possible but to bring kids and call

it an adventure, to make it sound as if it is just like an exciting movie is

wrong, very wrong., to witness the heartache and the despair is not very nice

at all.

Just my view of course.

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With no figures quoted its hard to answer. In your position I'd want 10yrs worth of living sat in the bank. And that simply gets you to the youngest being 16! and is obviously looking on the glum side re employment. It seems you may have picked the wrong area if you would want to remain in aviation...around Toulouse may have been better? How about a happy medium and you trying to get more leave in place of some salary, that way you get more holiday time whilst remaining a wage earner? We went through the same predicament a gcouple of years ago and after finishing our bran we'd have had about ÂŁ50k in the bank. Our kids were 7 and 9 so we reckoned that we'd have been skint after 5 years and that prospect brought it into focus. We're now working towards an early retirement at 48 and 49yrs and being in a position where we don't have to work beyond if we don't want to.

I guess the bulk of the sound advice above is don't do it! Head or heart???

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[8-)]Wow!! So many comments in so short a time! Glad we asked!! Fantastic thing the internet. All be assured that we will post a reply to all comments - some might be short though - if people are taking the time to comment, then only courteous to respond.

Fair question this one - head or heart??

Our hearts ache for change because the way life in the UK is going it's sending our heads crazy!

Perhaps we should ask how to escape the 100 mph, 24/7, consumer/cash crazed, largely selfish and ignorant UK population. There - got it off the chest! Perhaps we just come across the wrong people in the Midlands?

The heart says it's about saving our kids from today's rather horrible lifestyle. (Earlier empathy in this respect much appreciated.) Pressure to give them the latest game consoles (plural!), mobile phones, TV's, DVD's, IPods (sorry about the advert) because everyone else in the class has them. (How do these kids get the money to pay their phone bills anyway? - Oh sorry - kids don't have to understand the meaning of earning money and managing it these days - the banks and credit card companies are more than happy to throw it at anyone - whinge over!)[:'(]

Not to forget that we find the Limousin region to be lovely and have got ourselves a nice house in a nice town with a chateau (bit of a clue?). Comments about the weather noted but that is not a driver. Yes, summers may well be longer and warmer than Leicestershire but weather in itself is not a reason to move. And don't mind the cold, have a few wooly jumpers.

Generally comments to date confirm our suspicion that work will be nigh on impossible to find so (having received advise) am considering agency work as an avenue to explore.

Financially we would reckon to arrive with about 40-50k Euros. We get by in the UK on a little less than ÂŁ2k per month and that covers paying an ÂŁ80k+ mortgage. (Interesting earlier comments on what would be needed to survive.)

Not on an immediate deadline, but at this time still open-minded and doing lots of research!

Cheers to all - keep all advice coming - job offers welcomed!![:D]

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Thanks for the positive comment re kids and schools. We think our kids are pretty bright and would get on ok so they at least wouldn't be too great a worry in terms of picking up the language and education. Our house is in a town so they wouldn't be isolated from any new friends they mightmake.

One tick in a box.

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[quote user="zeb"]OMG - we were probably considered mad, but we did it!           Saying that though, we have managed to live OK and pay the bills, we've had holidays in UK and France, we fill the freezer up when we have money and eat from it when we haven't any. We have been surprised how prices have risen over the last few years, some things are cheap, but most things are not. So, what I'm trying to say is, is think hard, do your research don't move out without at least 40K to tide you over for two years whilst you learn the craic and find work. The kids will love it, and be fluent in no time. If it doesn't work out, you'll have all gained something from the experience and no doubt will be able to get back into a similar job in the UK, but you may find it difficult buying there after a few years in France. We just wish that we had made the move years ago. Whatever you decide, good luck.[/quote]

Fair play to you! We reckon that we could get by for 2-3 years before the 'money pot' was empty. I wouldn't sit idle for that long even if it means coming back to work on and off in the UK.

Fair point re the UK housing market - we think that our house in the Limousin should give a fair return in 2-3 years, so a move back may not be too painful financially.

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[quote user="rjbingham"]Yes Mark, quite frankly you are MAD and quite a few people on this forum have confirmed this. 

for me, the risk was not moving my family to France BUT STAYING in North Wales. 

although it has been quite an upheaval for the rest of the family, three months down the line, things are looking up. The boys play golf and are treated with respect at St.Junien golf club. I get to fly planes for a fraction of the cost of in the U.K, and my wife does not come home every night from work as a nurse stressed having had yet another day dealing with drunks, druggies and general scum, the like of which the U.K seems to breed, and most importantly the children are happy in school. For us the move to the Limousin was and is all about quality of life, our lives and that of our children,  you only have one life,  you only get one chance, fine its a risk, if you don't like risks stay in the U.K. wait till you confront someone stealing the stereo out of your nice new car that you worked hard to pay for and end up (if you're lucky) on my wifes ward. To stay put, that to me is MAD. For us we wanted to give our boys to chance of a decent childhood, the one we had, the one where you earn respect and respect others, sadly gone forever in an overpopulated Wales, a childhood we had without crime, locked doors and the constant buzzing of the police helicopter overhead. If you want cheap and cheerful and are worried about the cost of living every month, move to Thailand, but last time i checked thats filling up with undesirables and i do not think i would let the children out of my sight!!
Either way Mark i wish you and yours all the best and 'Bon Courage', for what its worth i say 'seize the day', your a long time dead my friend
Regards Adrien and if you need any help when/ If you get here give me a shout, i don't know alot but will do my best !![/quote]

Thanks for the comments from another dissillusioned Brit! Thanks for pointing out a few of the UK's good points. We are obviously not alone. And a potential near neighbour to boot.

Offer of help much appreciated!

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Hi Mark,

To add my thoughts - no, you're not mad and you're thinking about some of the risks. If you were to rent out your UK house - how easy would it be and what could it bring you in terms of an income - is one line of thought. The other is that you have a great deal of experience in the aero industry - is there anything aligned to what you do now that you could move to in the UK with the aim of going field based at some point? What other skills do you and your wife have that could be transportable?

We're moving in January with our 10 nearly 11 year old and are prepared for him to redouble his first year of college if needed - so I think you've got a couple of years before you need to consider if your ldest is "too old" to make the transition easily - although there are loads of people who've moved with older kids. We had to wait until our older two sons had left home and gone to unversity etc before we could think about moving.

Would your current employer allow you to work part time and then you weekly commute for a while - not very pleasant for you but this could give you an income while you got settled. The other thing is to consider what the worst thig that could happen if it all went pair shaped - could you face starting over?

After all when we die we don't regret the opportunities seized but those not taken - so all the best whatever you  & your family decide

 

 

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hi mark

this is my first reply to anyone on the site and your post brings my thoughts to a voice, we are moving to mayenne in about a month no kids , been coming here for the last 18 years also from leicester and also terrified , i work purley on line so my job stays the same i just have to change over from uk tax to french tax systems and pay the evil social security fees , leicester isnt our town anymore im 41 and i remember it when it was a lovely place to be now its dangerous and foreign more so then this part of france , im looking for a 40 year rewind to a time of saftey when people respected each other , here in the mayenne its still like that , i dont know if moving is the right thing to do i only know staying here will eventually cripple us financally and emotionally ,people in general dont make the move they stay within a few miles of where they were born and just moan a lot , coming to france isnt going to kill anyone the uks only a few hours by plane or car , learn to speak and read french , be honest with them ,be patriotic about your old country and and enthused about you new one and youll make friends and one day everything will seem normal and youll wonder why you stayed in the uk so long , its not an easy option this moving thing it pulls at the heart and mind and if your like me youll change your mind backwards and forwards everytime you read the forum , but whats worse waking up when your 60 and realising its too late , many people do return to the uk thats true but many stay as well and what happens to one set of people with one set of circumstanses is not the same as another , we too have a 60k mortage plus cards and god only knows what else , once you calculate what you are paying out in intrest alone youll see its not so bad tax fonciere and habitation are a lot lower then poll tax , no mortage , no credit cards , ok french tax is fine its the coges that kill but if you dont earn loads you dont payloads and a good accountant will put you straight , id rather be poor in a civalised society then rich in the hell that the uks become , if the spitfire pilots could see whats happened to the isalnd that stood alone they would weep ! .i say go forward backwards is just not an option anymore

good look clarkie mayenne 

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A lot of what you say is true Clarkie and good luck to you - I don't think you will look back and regret anything.  However, there are two HUGE differences between your situation and that of Mark.  You don't have any kids and you do have a permanent, full-time job that you are just transferring to the French tax system.

Mark, I really don't want to put you off coming to France because wild horses wouldn't drag me back to England now (apart from the od shopping trip [;-)]) but you really will find it hard to find work and as Miki says, too many families have been torn apart by the stresses of no work and no money.  It's one thing being poor here (Clarkie's point about preferring to be poor here than rich in the UK) but it's a totally different matter having NO income at all.   And although he's right, our annual taxe fonciere and habitation combined is only about 2 months worth of our former UK council tax, food is about the same price, some clothes are similar, smarter ones are a lot more expensive IMO.  Fuel is now harly cheaper than the UK, cars are about the same price - and when you've got nothing coming in and you have one of these bills to pay you'll start getting the sleepless nights.  Don't forget, you have no credit history here and with no permanent job any kind of loan or credit is going to be nigh on impossible to obtain.

Having said all of that, good luck anyway, and I hope you do manage to achieve your dream.

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One of the things that worry me about many of the posts is the aspect of 'running away' from the UK.  Somebody wise once said to me 'Never run from, always run TO' and I think there is a lot of sense in that.  Nowhere is perfect and for everything you dislike in the UK and like in France there will be an opposite view.  Many people think the grass is greener because they are incapable of understanding enough of the language to know that politics are no more attractive here than the UK, that a great number of the French moan as much if not more that the English and that many of the perceived ills of English society exist here too.

We have managed to make a go of it here, but I spoke very good French on arrival, we were able to get our B & B business up and running pretty quickly and my husband has managed to get a job.  However, I do not think life is perfect and would have been very reluctant to do this if we had children in tow.  You may think you are providing a better and more idyllic life for your children but we live in the country here and most of the teenagers I know (French and English) can't wait to get away to somewhere more 'happening'.  Most children over 14 are in internat as the daily travelling is too far.

One of the other posters mentioned golf and flying planes - well this is not sour grapes but I think they are already in a lifestyle which few people I know here can afford.  The SMIC (which is all most foreigners can ever hope to earn legally) or a small self employed business will regretably not buy you that sort of lifestyle.  Like St Amour the two of us get by - but we can by no means aspire to many luxuries.  If you are already pretty wealthy life will be good - but so it will be anywhere.

Like Miki I have seen a number of real horror stories and unhappiness here.  Also some success and happiness. Without fail the happy ones spoke (or learnt quickly) French, had a real plan for work, no debt and were VERY poor at least for the first few years.  Ask yourself if you feel that you can survive without all the little luxuries right from the word go.  If you have not got an income you must make economies immediately or the 'moneypot' will disappear very quickly indeed.

If you decide to go for it - and why not, after all the posters who are advising all did so at one stage or another - then I wish you good luck and hope it works out for you.

Best wishes

Maggi

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="mark1963"]   Thinking of moving to the Limousin with no job - ARE WE MAD!!   [/quote]

 

You ARE!!!! 

I have just returned from Limousin last night (visiting my French family) The mood amongst the locals is very gloom and doom. They have big problems finding jobs. Limousin is first and foremost an agricultural economy, unless you know your elbow from your udders... 

Then finding adequate housing..... The price of properties is on the up because of incomers, mostly British. This causes a lot of resentment. Believe me! my ears are still full of woes on that subject during my short week there. Most local young couples (with or without children)  can't even find the deposit for the cheapest house. Whatever cheap housing they find, it is more or less derelict. So most stay in rented accommodation, if not stay at home with parents.

If either of you have a skill job, try to accommodate that with an area of France where it could/would be needed.

 

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I moved here a little over a year ago, from one of the British Colonies. Came with a full time, well paying job, cash in the bank and no kids. And I positively dislike this country. Unfortunately my wife is French

 I wouldnt do it again... if had a choice.

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Personally I have been quite shocked at the lifestyle of other villagers.  What makes our village (and many elsewhere) so appealing is the feeling that you have gone back to a 'nicer' time but this 'old fashioned' atittude has negative as well as positive consequences. 

For example, our neighbours live in three roomed village house with one bedroom (which their little boy has) a lounge and a small kitchen.  Their lounge is tiny and doubles as their bedroom with only a sofa bed, TV and cupboards / bookshelves.  It is crowded and cramped.  He works but earns a very low wage; she cannot find work. She stayed at school until 17 and so 'has a very good schooling'; he wasn't so lucky (her words, not mine).  In common with many in the village they haven't travelled further than their part of France.  They struggle financially and supplement their income by hunting, fishing and growing their own food.  They ask us to bring our used kids clothes etc over when we come.  Any clothes that don't fit their own little boy are passed onto others in the village (our kids clothes aren't anything to shout about - mostly from George at Asda).  As a consequence of the lack of work she is bored and lonely and, apart from the annual fete, our visits seem to be the highlight of her village life.  Bear in mind these are local French people with fluent French and better contacts for employment than a new British arrival.

France is a wonderful place to holiday in or to retire to - but unless you plan a  move to the city, speak fluent (or at least very good French) and have a pretty good idea of the job market in your chosen profession you may have a hard struggle finding work.  If you have young children then your problems are compounded.  Some people make it work but many don't. Think long and hard and then think some more.  The grass is not always grener on the other side.

Kathie

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[quote user="missyesbut"]>>>.......  The grass is not always grener on the other side.<<< And why is the grass a little greener on the other side of the fence...?... Because there is more s h 1 t to be coping with it ![/quote]

Hence the saying the grass is the greenest over the septic tank...

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We moved from the U.K. to Ireland over ten years ago and have three children, ten years ago here on the west coast was a wonderfull place, still is I guess but is slowly becomeing like Britain in many ways. I would live anywhere in the world but England such is my dislike of the place today, but convincing the wife to move to France is proving a little difficult. I have previously spent 18 months in France so in a manner of speaking know what to expect and picked up the language very well at the time (15 years ago) so hopefully would find it easier to pick up again having forgotten virtually everything.Without wanting to Hi jack the thread, my question is similair to the original posters , Mark, only I am fortunate enough to have a trade as a Builder /Plasterer (25 years) so would appreciate the opinions of those in the know as to what they might consider my prospects on either contracting or purchaseing renovation projects with a view to resale or even new build one off housing etc. Ireland is a fine place to live but this bloody constant rain gets me down!!
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Mark, I think you are as mad or sane as the rest of us.

I agree with one of the postings in that I think you are looking for reassurance, having already decided to come. My views in reading a lot of the comments about the pros and cons of UK/France is that many on this forum do not compare like for like when they talk about France in such glowing terms.

I have been coming to France since  the age of 14 (now early 40s) and I can assure you that  I know as many French people in high powered/pressured jobs living in large French cities that have the same problems as friends in similar situations in the UK. Have any of you ever tried commuting to and from Paris or making ends meet in Marseille or Nice and Cannes on French Salaries etc?  What is the point in comparing life in busy UK towns to life in secluded French villages and hamlets?

Oh and what about the huge numbers of French who have flooded the UK in the past decade?  I employed a few of them.  All, I'm trying to say is that things could work out for you here but, like the young couple I met who moved back to the UK after two years in southern France  with their two young children, the work situation has to be taken very very seriously. 

Often on these forums, you have the glowing opinons (sorry, I call them the wine and cheese brigade) regarding the quality of life (subjective) of those who have retired  and having a great time - good for you all, you have no doubt deserved it. However, the reality for those in their late 30s/early 40s (with or without children) is often far removed from those of the retired set.  The initial euphoria can wear off very quickly if you are not realistic about your expectations and choice of region.  Our needs are different from those of the earlier or older 'settlers' and so should our choices.  I think you are wise to have bought in a town instead of a remote area, a complete nonesense in my books for many and a full receipe for isolation though most do not admit it.  Great for a while but  I have met many older 'settlers'  living in fabulous properites miles from the local village who end up living for the moments their famillies/friends visit as they have not integrated at all.  En plus, instead of needing 2 legs, they need six (4 on their cars) to do anything.

Having said all that, I love my life in France (in a  reasonably large town, not picture post card stuff but a real community/facillites etc).  I came here fully aware of the pros and cons of the French system - and still got stung by French bureaucracy and ineffective laws! I did not have a rosey pro french view (but came for the sun and sea London could not provide, not London faults but nature I hasten to add for all you France better quality of life mob), nor this UK is all bad comments you often get on these types of forums.

Like many of you here, I did come for a slower pace of life but ask yourself this, France attracts ageing immigrants (myself included) whereas the UK attracts the young. For those of us who may grow old here - think about the economic impact of such immigration.  We may all be heading back in 15-20 years [:)]

I wish you lots of luck in the Limousin as you are no doubt heading there next year....

PS: Taxe Fonciere varies enormously in France from town to town.  One person mentioned paying less than in the UK. Well, I pay more because I have a town centre property.  As in the UK, the local authority decides the rate and village properties usually incur cheaper Taxe Fonciere because of the lack of services but live in a town (Paris being the exception) and you will be stung by high Fonciere and Taxe d'habitation.  In fact, I believe the govt is looking into capping it according to earnings as it's so expensive in many regions.

I apologise for the length of this posting...

 

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Yes!!!

My advice to you would be to keep your place in France, Thoroughly enjoy it with your family over the next few years. Then when the kids have grown up and become more self sufficient pack in the rat race and come over to France.

Perhaps you can renogotiate with your company to get longer holidays off, in return for working a bit longer at other times of the year.

It is true what everyone has said about income, we have no mortgage etc, but need in exces of €1500 per month just to live.

I honestly do wish you every success in what you decide and hope you have fun with it.

Regards.

Tim, Louise and soon to be new member of family.

 

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I don't know if you're still following Mark but I've copied this over from another forum section....

 



Joined on 21/11/2004
23
Posts 615

Re: Conservatories

OK Danny here goes, I was going to write this last night but the Chablis had taken ahold by then!

We were just another disillusioned young Brit family when we arrived here, we came with little money but a years worth of income in advance, and no mortgage. I had no work here at all and not much idea of what I really wanted to do, I knew what I didn't want to do but hadn't really thought much beyond that. I'd stopped all shows/exhibitions in the UK and effectively cut my ties. That was my first mistake.

I took three months or so off to start work on the house, none of that time was spent researching, marketing or developing, whilst Sarah saw the warning signals, I didn't, I was too stuck into what I was doing.....after all work had always come in so it always would do, right? Nope, that was mistake number two.

I became complacent and didn't listen to those around me, neither of which I'd ever been guilty of before, mistake three.

So one day, with all of the UK contracts completed and the money in the bank (which was rapidly running out) it suddenly hit me that I effectively had no business and that's when the real heartache started. Without my parents in law to help us out it would have been dire indeed, without a doubt we would have failed. The stress was terrible. I don't know how it happened but a few projects came in and we were able to start walking again, but the cost was high. I was forced to have to work horrendous hours in the sort of winter conditions that would have most of you scuttling for a cosy fire, I recorded one month where I averaged 101,5 hours a week. It hurt but it got us out of the hsit, BUT it got me burned out too, which was also not very pleasant, I'm still taking the medication, it was pretty bad, the doctor explained to me that the brain had effectively pulled a fuse to protect the rest of the circuit.

So anyway bit by bit things build up to where they are today. In many ways those few months were the best lesson I've ever learned. You might see my position as being rosy Danny but I've grafted for it and paid a price that could have been avoided with a little more care and attention. Now life has evolved into what we always imagined we wanted from it, yes we're good for work and the finances are healthy once more, I work when I want to now, no rush, no stress. We have time for freinds and family once more and the house will get done when it gets done. My clients (save for two!) are just fantastic and the projects I have are my dream come true, but please believe me, nothing ever just fell into my lap. We took the risk and it just happened to pay off, we're a stronger family and closer as a result but it could just as easily have gone the other way, without the skills we have and support from others it probably would have done. I know damn well there are people looking at this who are going through the same thing at the moment, it's hard to say 'HELP!' but there's some good and experienced folk on this forum who would help without hesitation. I honestly don't think young families realise just how tough it can be to live a comfortable life here.

Would I take the risk again? Oh sure,  with a few adjustments maybe, but they say hindsight is 20/20 vision!

 

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Hi there

we are moving to the Indre in a couple of weeks, and your words on this site inspired me. seize the day,, you are a long time dead

I think your words were what this guy wanted to hear.  We are also moving without jobs, but are hoping that we will intergrate into the local community, and last time I was over, someone said, yes I know someone that might be able to help you get a cleaning job

we don't mind what we do to survive. so there we are. keep your fingers crossed for us

julie crock

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"We are also moving without jobs, but are hoping that we will intergrate into the local community, and last time I was over, someone said, yes I know someone that might be able to help you get a cleaning job

we don't mind what we do to survive. so there we are. keep your fingers crossed for us"

 

Julie

Bon courage and bonne chance.

I just hope you have a nice little nest egg to fund the move and the first year or so.

Cleaning jobs are not well paid but might help to keep the wolf from the door for a while.

Do you have a family to support? Elderly relatives in th U.K. perhaps who may be in difficulites and need you to return at  short notice? Be warned these last minute fares are never cheap.

If you are fluent French speakers and there is plenty of work in your area  then maybe it will all be O.K.[8-)]

Good luck and as I said before bon courage.[:)]

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