Thinking of moving to the Limousin with no job - ARE WE MAD!!

[mark1963]

We discovered France in summer 2005 via a great couple of weeks in Argeles-sur-Mer.
Having found ourselves 'hooked', we undertook quite a lot of research and made a couple of visits to the area we had singled out in the October and again in March '06. As these things tend to go (??) we ended up taking ownership of a house in the Limousin in June 2006, the intent at the time being to use it as a holiday 'bolt-hole' from our current residence in the Midlands. The house that we have bought needs some work on it but nothing too major.
Thereafter followed another short visit and a very enjoyable 5 continuous weeks (for my wife and two kids at least - I managed two and a half!) during the school holiday.
We returned at the end of August and now find that we have a burning desire to up roots from the UK and give it a go living there permanently.
Our kids are presently 9 and 5 so we firmly believe that we must get them into the local French school in September 2007 (latest) or forget any ideas about a permanent move until our youngest is 16'ish. How depressing!
We are weighing up what pot of money we can move over with us say in summer '07 - we have had the UK house valued with the view to selling, are working out what we can raise by selling shares, the 'rubbish' in the attic etc. etc. Whilst we would turn up with only a modest amount of money to put in the bank, our slate would be wiped completely clean so to speak - no mortgage, credit card debt etc. - a fresh start one might say. This financial position in itself has a great appeal.
I presently work full time for a globally known aero engine company and my wife part-time at the local primary school. So we are financially stable lets say.
And therein lies the only problem as we see it - the BIG risk - the thing to potentially knock it on the head.
There is no opportunity for me to continue working for my present employer remotely from the UK so I would have to hand in my notice after 26+ years service. (That puts me in my early 40's!) Therefore the likelihood is we would move permanently to France with no job (and possibly no prospects of finding one)!
I have scoured various forums and job web-sites and the prospects of finding work in or around our local area do not appear good. I am confident that I have numerous skills which I can apply to new opportunities but nonetheless I would be more than happy to have a crack at anything so long as it paid enough to cover the weekly/monthly essentials (and allowed for the ocasional visit to family and friends in the UK).
My French is not good but I am beginning to work at it (and will probably be dragged along in this respect by my daughter who appears to be able to pick it up very easily).
Is finding work, particularly in or around St Junien/Limoges, as hard as it would appear at the moment?
Are we bonkers to be thinking about moving over without having a job lined up anyway??
Are we in a mid-life crisis?

[timc17]

You are stark staring bonkers!!

A family of four will need an income of around 2000 euros a month to survive assuming you've got no mortgage and jobs are very hard to find unless you have a transferable skill or trade.

Sorry to be so gloom and doom.

 

 

Tim.

[Coco]

Hi Mark

Discovering France is exciting isn't it?  Finding a house you love in an area you love is even more so.  Coming here for long stretches in the summer is marvellous too.  Living here without a regular income ISN'T!!!!!  I really don't want to put the dampers on your dream - it's a wonderful dream and I hope you achieve it but don't even THINK about moving out here with two young children unless you have a reliable income.

We moved here nearly 4 years ago, to a house that we had bought outright 3 years before that, with a view to living here permanently and running a B&B.  We came with no debts, no mortgage, and as you say, a fairly significant amount in the bank.  Your nestegg may be more significant than ours was, but then we don't have any children to peck away at it!  We have been very happy here and make a fair amount of money each year from the B&B.  I am hoping that next year we will have built the business up enough to mean that we no longer have to dip into that dwindling pot in the bank.  But that will have taken 5 years to get to that point, and every time I have any worries about money the one thing I say to myself is "thank god we don't have any kids to support".  If it all went totally pear-shaped here we could possibly up roots (hopefully for only part of each year) and return to the UK to do contract work - but that would be when we were absolutely destitute and I wouldn't fancy having to do that with children, would you?

The other thing that interests me is that you don't make any mention of having spent any great amount of time here outside the summer months.  Winters in the Limousin can be pretty cold so I hear - and are you in a rural location?  They can also be pretty lonely.  We don't see our neighbours for months at a time (not having any that live right next door).

I would most certainly make sure that I either found a permanent job locally or a sure-fire way of earning an income in a self-employed capacity of internet-based.  One thing you will need which will take a large slice of your income is a mutuel, or top-up health insurance policy for your family - fairly essential I would have thought with young children.  If thekids are 5 and 9 now I reckon, although 2007 would be better, you would still probably be OK waiting til Sept 2008.  Some friends of ours moved when their girls were 7 and 14.  The 14 year old really struggled but the 7 year old was happy as Larry from day one and was totally fluent in french by Christmas, having started school in September without a word.  Another couple who had an 11 year old found that she fell somewhere between the 7 and 14 year olds.  She took a little longer than the 7 year old to fit in and pick up the language, but nowhere near as long at the 14 year old.

The most important thing of all is to have the financial security, without that every other small problem will seem huge.  We've seen a lot of Brits come over here with young children to get out of the rat race and to spend more time with their kids only to end up spending less because the proceeds from the sale of their UK house lastest nowhere near as long as they expected and then dad had to go back to the UK for weeks at a time to work and eventually they have all endedd up moving back to the UK.

Apparently one UK based removal company has recently said that they have much more business now moving people back to the UK from France than out here - and a lot of those are going for financial reasons, not because they were unhappy here.  Don't become a statistic - a lot of those were people who took the chance and thought that "something would come up" once they were out here.

[Mark]

Mark,

Have you considered whether your aerospatial skills and experience could be used at Blagnac?  Bit of a trek from Limousin, and your French would have to improve markedly (no pun intended), but it could be worth investigating.

Good luck,

Mark.

[Val_2]

Knowing what I know and have learned over the many years of living here I would urge you to take great care with "just upping sticks" and hoping to live on a pot of money left over from UK property sales. Firstly you will be in a foreign country with no instant loans or credit available unless you have a steady job with enough income to pay it back and certainly no benefits payable until you have spent some time in the system looking for work and secondly,whilst living in lovely countryside is paradise to a lot of townies,you will find there is little or no work available for the locals fluent in their own language let alone a stranger with none of this and no recognised french qualifications. I would suggest you perhaps rent out your UK home for say, two years and live off the rent from that and rent a modest property in a region of France where it may be possible to find employment and see how you fare - you would learn to live without the backup of that pot of savings which will disappear very fast anyway by the time you have bought here, paid for all sorts of items like renovations,vehicles and importantly health care cover/top up. France is not a paradise found unless you are in retirement with a good pension coming in or have a good steady job,wages generally never go above the SMIC anyway and you cannot get away with things like waiting for red reminders to arrive or "the cheque is in the post", the system is geared up differently. You should also consider your children if they are over the age of ten because it will very difficult for them to learn a new language and all the years of education they have missed just before going to secondary education.

[zeb]

OMG - we were probably considered mad, but we did it! Bought a holiday house, and after first holiday decided to sell up and move over. We had enough for the renovations and to last us a couple of years, which only actually lasted 18 months!

We knew we had to find work eventually, but knew that as we were flexible and adaptable and had various skills, we would either sink or swim, and over 4 years later, we are still here, still really enjoying living and working in France, and not planning on going back.

But, it has been tough at times, and the very long wet winter of 2005/2006 wrecked my chances of earning any money (apart from a stint of vine pruning) so paying the enormous cotisations (NI equivalent for self employed) was a real bummer. Luckily MOH works hard but then again it's sometimes unpredicable.

Saying that though, we have managed to live OK and pay the bills, we've had holidays in UK and France, we fill the freezer up when we have money and eat from it when we haven't any. We have been surprised how prices have risen over the last few years, some things are cheap, but most things are not.

So, what I'm trying to say is, is think hard, do your research don't move out without at least 40K to tide you over for two years whilst you learn the craic and find work. The kids will love it, and be fluent in no time. If it doesn't work out, you'll have all gained something from the experience and no doubt will be able to get back into a similar job in the UK, but you may find it difficult buying there after a few years in France.

We just wish that we had made the move years ago. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[Cassis]

To do what you are suggesting sounds crazy to me, with two young children to care for and leaving secure jobs for a future of almost zero employment prospects.  If it were just you and your OH I might be more encouraging.

[lizzie15again]

Zeb- it was just the two of you tho wasn't it? Totally different when you have 2 young ones relying totally on you[:(]

 

[Rob Roy]

What about renting out your UK home (as suggested) and coming here for a couple of years to see how it goes. You already have the house here so won't have rent to find. You might be able to find work in Toulouse in the aerospace industry there - about 2-3 hrs down the motorway so it might be a case of you being away during the week (although of course you will then be paying rent!), but it would be a way of trying the lifestyle.

Winters in the Limousin are cold (sometimes very cold!) and quiet - depending on whether you have neighbours or not. Obviously with the children going to school it will be a good way of getting to meet other parents, so perhaps better than not having children to break the ice (no pun intended!)

[Alan]

[quote user="timc17"]

A family of four will need an income of around 2000 euros a month to survive assuming you've got no mortgage and jobs are very hard to find unless you have a transferable skill or trade.

.

[/quote]

 

I wish, we have 2 children a mortgage and live on a lot less than that a month after paying our bills.

 

However i do think you really need to do you homework , finding work is not easy and you have to be flluent in french, i think if at all possible i would rent your ik house out so if it does not work out at least you still have a place back in the uk. Also i think you might have to look at others area to work , people have said toulouse but to get into airbus you really need to know someone in the know a friend has tried to get a job theire for over a year now with no joy, also rents are high and house prices are going up

However whatever you decide i wish you luck

[timc17]

Alan,

Can i have your secret please. We have four children but no mortgage and can just survive on around 2k a month.

 

[Deimos]

[quote user="timc17"]

Alan,

Can i have your secret please. We have four children but no mortgage and can just survive on around 2k a month.

 

[/quote]

Alan said a lot less that 2k per month AFTER PAYING BILLS. By the time you take out mortgage, food bills, car bills, tax bills, insurance bills, electric bills, etc. the bills are pretty much everything so 2k per months AFTER BILLS is a lot.

timc17, is your 2K per month after bills or total amount per month (incl everything) ?

Ian

[Coco]

[quote user="timc17"]

A family of four will need an income of around 2000 euros a month to survive assuming you've got no mortgage and jobs are very hard to find unless you have a transferable skill or trade.

[/quote]

Sounds about right, especially the "to survive" bit; two of us manage on between 12-1500 euros per month.  BUT that is to survive, it doesn't include holidays, Christmas, birthdays, eating out, clothes  or unforeseen costs, like car problems or OH standing on his glasses and breaking them!!! (mutuel to cover full cost of glasses being just too much per month) - that figure is just day-to-day living, taxes and bills.

[DZ]

[quote user="mark1963"]Our kids are presently 9 and 5 so we firmly believe that we must get them into the local French school in September 2007 (latest) or forget any ideas about a permanent move until our youngest is 16'ish. How depressing!
[/quote]

Moving when your youngest is 16'ish won't be any easier, unless you don't mind leaving them with family in the UK.  I really feel for your dilemma because I have spent the whole summer pondering a similar kind of move and decided against it simply because my kids are too old to settle in easily and I would have had to leave one of them on their own in UK, at a university.  I rather suspect that if I was in your shoes, ie. with younger kids, I would probably have tried to do the mad thing and see how things work out! 

Best of luck whatever you decide.

[KathyC]

Some figures have just been quoted on another forum giving the average household income nationally as just over 20,000 E and about 16,000E in the Limousin. Presumably many of these households will be making rent or mortgage payments from this income. I wonder if this is a useful slant on the income needed to live in France? Obviously nobody is "average" but I feel this gives a useful context, as someone with income of 2,000E per month after paying bills would  be pretty comfortable. ( Actually, £1,300 after paying bills in the UK would also seem pretty comfortable to many people.)

[Cassis]

One of the many useless books I read before I came here said that the minimum annual income necessary for a couple to be able to live in France was about 20,000€ with no frills other than a car (which is essential out of town anyway).

[Dick Smith]

My advice, for what it is worth, is to keep on working in the UK and enjoy your holiday home when you can. The wasp in your jam is the fact that you get less holiday time thatn the rest of your family by a long way, can you do anything about that?

[Viv]

Yes you are mad.

We did the mad thing too, don't regret it but it depends what you want out of life, how materialistic you are etc etc.

Unless you can work for yourself in a REALISTIC capacity or can juggle your finances to give you sufficient to exist rather than live on, your dream will sour quickly and that's not far on your kids who will adjust and make friends far quicker than you and then , whoosh, they are back in the UK.

Failing to plan is planning to fail. It can be done.

[timc17]

[quote user="Deimos"][quote user="timc17"]

Alan,

Can i have your secret please. We have four children but no mortgage and can just survive on around 2k a month.

 

[/quote] Alan said a lot less that 2k per month AFTER PAYING BILLS. By the time you take out mortgage, food bills, car bills, tax bills, insurance bills, electric bills, etc. the bills are pretty much everything so 2k per months AFTER BILLS is a lot. timc17, is your 2K per month after bills or total amount per month (incl everything) ? Ian[/quote]

Ian,

The 2k is the total per month. This leaves us very little for going out or trips back to the UK.

 

Tim.

[rjbingham]

Yes Mark, quite frankly you are MAD and quite a few people on this forum have confirmed this. That said, doubtless the founding fathers departing the shores of (not so) Great Britain, were also considered mad by many.The point, or rather MY point is (and thats all this is- my point of view for what its worth) rather you have, or are very close to making you mind up anyway and are looking for reasurrance !!, if thats the case i wish you all the best. Ask yourself how many people, irregardless of having children have been in your shoes (my wife and i for one) disillusioned with day to day life in the Britain have taken a massive step into the unknown. And for some it is too much, for many it is the start of whole new life with a whole new perspective on living with Europe, that is the reality of why websites like this exist and why they are so popular, not to discourage, but to inform, but most things in life are relative. What you consider expensive may be small change to the next bloke.  People, normal hard working, middle management types through to the local plumber, across the whole  spectrum, people like you, ordinary parents worrying about their children's future are leaving behind the increasingly overpopulated island in their droves.

That for me is why we took the risk in moving here to the Limousin, i speak very little French, nor does my wife or our two children, for me, the risk was not moving my family to France BUT STAYING in North Wales. The cost of living is admittedly relevant, the days of paying inexcess of £1000 p.a in council tax are now history, the road fund licence, all now history, however financial issues aside their are a whole new set of problems to contend with, all hampered by a language barrier (explains why so many emigrate to English speaking countries) but this problem itself is one which makes you all the more determined to succeed, and maybe even feel somewhat pleased with yourself when you get a handle on things..

As i explained earlier i speak no French (or rather i did not), however having lived and worked in Germany, Azerbaijan, the Republic of Georgia, Holland, South America, Hong Kong and many other less than wonderful places on the planet, the move to France, although easy for me (fluent in eight languages-no French though !!should have listened in school), although it has been quite an upheaval for the rest of the family, three months down the line, things are looking up. The boys play golf and are treated with respect at St.Junien golf club. I get to fly planes for a fraction of the cost of in the U.K, and my wife does not come home every night from work as a nurse stressed having had yet another day dealing with drunks, druggies and general scum, the like of which the U.K seems to breed, and most importantly the children are happy in school. For us the move to the Limousin was and is all about quality of life, our lives and that of our children,  you only have one life,  you only get one chance, fine its a risk, if you don't like risks stay in the U.K. wait till you confront someone stealing the stereo out of your nice new car that you worked hard to pay for and end up (if you're lucky) on my wifes ward. To stay put, that to me is MAD. For us we wanted to give our boys to chance of a decent childhood, the one we had, the one where you earn respect and respect others, sadly gone forever in an overpopulated Wales, a childhood we had without crime, locked doors and the constant buzzing of the police helicopter overhead. If you want cheap and cheerful and are worried about the cost of living every month, move to Thailand, but last time i checked thats filling up with undesirables and i do not think i would let the children out of my sight!!

Either way Mark i wish you and yours all the best and 'Bon Courage', for what its worth i say 'seize the day', your a long time dead my friend

Regards Adrien and if you need any help when/ If you get here give me a shout, i don't know alot but will do my best !!What you like on servicing aircraft??

P.s if its such a risk moving to France, how come there are so many Brits here ?? Maybe they would like to keep France their little secret !!! And you know what, i do not blame them...

[KathyC]

RJ, yours is an encouraging post and I'm glad that things have worked out so well for you. I'd just take issue with one thing you said:  "you only get one chance". That's really not true and is in some ways rather depressing. Moving to France isn't a one off, never to be repeated opportunity; the time might not yet be right or there might be a more suitable place to move  than France. I don't believe in being over cautious and if you knew my situation you would see that I'm planning a very risky move. However, I've had other opportunities in the past and if I didn't go now there could well be other chances in the future.

[rjbingham]

Kathy, each to their own, as i quoted 'tis my opinion' and for that reason i mentioned the fact i have been very fortunate in working/living in a whole host of very different and very diverse countries. Certainly in France, i am considered just another Brit, in the Republic of Georgia i was one of only two senior engineers in the whole country and yet, the move to France, with taking my family (unlike my previous work) was a very big step.

I do firmly belive that life is there to be lived, if you try and fail, so what...at least you tried. Had not every inventor, politician, explorer or writer dared to take a risk where would the modern world be today, and lets face it, all Mark has to do is move, not re-invent the light-bulb or the internet, i think you see my point.

My only concern in life is my family, and what i can do for the best for them and me (believe i am selfish sometimes-you have to be !! after serving the RAF and hearing the standard lecture about there being no 'I' in TEAM) i wish both you and Mark (if he reads this) all the best.

Whats the worst that can happen, you run out of money !!! BIG DEAL....get a suntan, learn some middle eastern dialect fly into Stanstead and ask for political asylum. Problem solved, free house blah blah...reason 47 why we left the U.K.

If we stay here for 5-6 years and then run out of money, at least we will have had a damn good time, our boys with be bi-lingual, will have seen of bit of life over the other side of the Channel and then i'll sell the farm,move back to the U.K buy an alarm system and cameras from B&Q and moan in the pub with the rest of the populas about the bloody French and the blockages!!! Failure is not an option

Take care and regards Adrian (the RJ thing is a very subtle joke)

[Cassis]

I nominate Adrian for the prize for most words per post.  [:)]

Blimey - you've got some stamina!

[rjbingham]

Sorry, it was a bit of a freudian type thing, little old me with only 2 posts and every one else with lottery type numbers... i promise to curb my enthusiasm next time.

Bon weekend to all

Adrien

[Cassis]

Et bon dimanche à vous aussi! [:)]