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Hopefully moving to France this year


stumpy
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[quote user="Cerise"]

Stumpy - I don't mean to be unkind, but on another part of the forum you are saying that you are moving to France to get away from problems in England.  I've lived most of my life in Cornwall - a lovely place - and now live where you want to SW France - also a lovely place.  If you don't want to have far more problems than you have already I suggest you do a huge amount of homework.  Getting a job in Cornwall (difficult for the UK) is child's play compared with getting a job here.  Speaking French is essential and even if you already did a job in England it does not mean they will let you do it here without French connections and qualifications.  Unless your wife enjoyed cleaning caravans in England there is no reason why she will enjoy it here - even if she can find someone to employ her.  Boring work is just that ANYWHERE.  You are uprooting your family to move to a system which you know so little you need to ask whether people pay tax - actually we don't but we pay huge amounts of social charges which mean we are too poor to pay tax.

Sorry if I sound horrid but your postings are naive beyond belief.  I'm not saying don't move here, I did, so who am I to criticise - but I came here speaking French and with a business in mind.  Even so it has been really hard and we have no children to support either financially or morally.  This is NOT a cheap, crime free paradise.  There is quite a bit more sunshine than Cornwall, but it is also often much colder and heating costs.   There are not the scandal rags so much crime goes scarcely reported, but it still exists. 

People reading this forum often criticise those who have lived here a while for being cynical - but believe me you'll stand a great deal more chance of making a go of it if you take off the blinkers.

Maggi

[/quote]

Your points are taken on ,no blinkers are on at all for this very reason im posting on here in the first place .'Sorry if I sound horrid but your postings are naive beyond belief ' well if i hadnt made any effort at all then i would understand this comment but im sorry Maggie, do you really think a proper parent would do any thing but the best for their family .You seem very upset with your lot in France and you havent really helped at all .

 My life in Cornwall is a good one and im very lucky to have a good network of freinds and family here and in France .Surly not just the super rich and fluent French speaker's are the only ones to have moved !

None of my reasons for moving to France really have anything to do with anyone else.My family are excited about moving as am I.As  for what youve said being cynical perhaps you could lighten up abit more .

Love Andy [;-)]

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Stumpy (Andy) - truly wasn't trying to be hurtful.  I am far from rich (my comment about being too poor to pay tax wasn't meant as self-pitying it is just the way it is for most people here), my other half spoke no French when we arrived, and I'm not at all unhappy - just pretty realistic - you note I said it is a lovely place here, but even its best friends can't pretend that working in France is easy.  In the 5 years I've been here I have seen so many people's dreams turn sour because they were looking for something that didn't exist.  It is difficult to get the tone right in e-mails and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone but there are loads of books etc on French taxation so asking whether people have to pay tax did seem pretty naive.

I'm sure that you are a great parent, and no, not only the rich succeed, but what you need to remember is that lots of people who post here are either retired with an adequate income or second homers so not living here all the time.  Maybe you are lucky enough to come with a large amount of capital, but the reality for many peole who don't, is that work is hard to find and poorly paid (even for pretty good jobs) and money rolls out faster than it rolls in.  This is true not only for us immigrants but also for the French.

If after you've heard and considered all the negatives as well as the positives you still want to go for it, then no-one hopes more than me that you succeed.  I'm glad to hear that you already have a support network in France as that helps.  I'm sure the family are excited and if I tell it is like it is it's only because I'd like people's dreams to come true, not turn to nightmares because everyone was too nice to tell them of the less attractive parts.

Good luck - and try to make the sun shine for me in Cornwall this coming weekend.

Maggi

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="Cerise"]

Stumpy (Andy) - truly wasn't trying to be hurtful.  I am far from rich (my comment about being too poor to pay tax wasn't meant as self-pitying it is just the way it is for most people here), my other half spoke no French when we arrived, and I'm not at all unhappy - just pretty realistic - you note I said it is a lovely place here, but even its best friends can't pretend that working in France is easy.  In the 5 years I've been here I have seen so many people's dreams turn sour because they were looking for something that didn't exist.  It is difficult to get the tone right in e-mails and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone but there are loads of books etc on French taxation so asking whether people have to pay tax did seem pretty naive.

I'm sure that you are a great parent, and no, not only the rich succeed, but what you need to remember is that lots of people who post here are either retired with an adequate income or second homers so not living here all the time.  Maybe you are lucky enough to come with a large amount of capital, but the reality for many peole who don't, is that work is hard to find and poorly paid (even for pretty good jobs) and money rolls out faster than it rolls in.  This is true not only for us immigrants but also for the French.

If after you've heard and considered all the negatives as well as the positives you still want to go for it, then no-one hopes more than me that you succeed.  I'm glad to hear that you already have a support network in France as that helps.  I'm sure the family are excited and if I tell it is like it is it's only because I'd like people's dreams to come true, not turn to nightmares because everyone was too nice to tell them of the less attractive parts.

Good luck - and try to make the sun shine for me in Cornwall this coming weekend.

Maggi[/quote]

Maggie i understand where your coming from ,were not stepping into this lightly ,and im sorry if i ask stupid  or naive questions but thats What i want to know at the time .Were not rich and like you we will have to work for a living ,but weve come to the conclusion that if we make enough money to pay the bills the adventure of learning a new culture will be worth the ups and downs  to come   [;-)]

We are expecting snow this week sorry but the waves are fantastic at the moment [:)]

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Andy - good, glad you realised I wasn't really trying to be the big, bad fairy[:)]

If you haven't already got it, get yourself the latest copy of Hampshire's "Living & Working in France".  Beware it is sometimes out of date and doesn't point out enough regional variations but of all the books I've found it the most helpful and it will answer many of your questions.  Keep on asking here as well, these people are very helpful - but do expect a few truthful answers that may not always be what you want to hear.  That is what is good about this board you get a whole range of opinions, and remember they are usually that, opinions not set in stone answers.  As I said before, the more you can probem solve BEFORE you go the better chance of succeeding.

Good luck, and DO SOMETHING about the weather before Friday[;-)]

 

Maggi

 

 

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[quote user="stumpy"]

...weve come to the conclusion that if we make enough money to pay the bills the adventure of learning a new culture will be worth the ups and downs  to come... 

[/quote]

Couldn't agree more, Stumpy... the experience of living in a new culture and learning a new way of life is what makes it all worthwhile. Sure, it's full of ups and downs, but that's what makes it interesting! I came to France in 2005, to live in a rural area (a tiny village in the Alps) with absolutely no knowledge of French and without much money either, but if something means that much to you, somehow you make it work. I have not once regretted my decision to stay here, and I have certainly never missed the UK or felt like going back.

Now, I have been here just over a year and I really feel like I have settled in properly. I can now speak almost-fluent French (words of wisdom: determination is EVERYTHING) and have just started working for the local ski lift company in my village. My best advice would be to introduce yourself to everyone as soon as you can after you arrive - that way, you'll make lots of friends (who could also be great contacts for finding work if necessary) and you'll also learn French at the same time.

I'm just trying to use my own example to point out that things CAN work, you're not necessarily doomed to having to return to the UK just because you're not rich or fluent in French. Good luck!

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"Couldn't agree more, Stumpy... the experience of living in a new culture and learning a new way of life is what makes it all worthwhile. Sure, it's full of ups and downs, but that's what makes it interesting! I came to France in 2005, to live in a rural area (a tiny village in the Alps) with absolutely no knowledge of French and without much money either, but if something means that much to you, somehow you make it work. I have not once regretted my decision to stay here, and I have certainly never missed the UK or felt like going back"

Well SS73 reading the link at the bottom of your last post I think your position is rather different. You are 23 year old foot loose and fancy free and appear to have no responsabilities. Stumpy is in a very different position, he is selling his UK base I think, buying property in France and has a family to consider, including school age children. So unless he has funds unlimited he has to consider how he will make a living and be able to keep body and soul and family together.

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One thing that newbies on the forum sometimes find is that far from finding a group of people saying 'Its great in France, much better than Blighty' they get a 'Come to France by all means, but don't expect a Utopian existence'. The cynicism is borne out of realism. However, those who have been living in France for more than 5 years would not recognise the UK nowadays. Drugs have infiltrated every corner of public and business life, they are driving up crime and destroying the entire social infrastructure. You can go to work and have no idea that the person sat next to you is on cocaine or smokes dope, you just notice that their behaviour is rather 'odd'.

The politically correct brigade have turned life on its head, no one can say what they think anymore, they can only say what has been 'approved' using terminology that is 'appropriate'. In short life in the UK is now a 'controlled' existence, one in which the good guys are paying for the bad guys. We have more CCTV's per person than any other country in the world, we run the risk of fines for just about anything that we do in our everyday lives, we are fast becoming shackled wage slaves, and wage slaves don't rebel.

It is this that people want to escape from. I find myself in conversation with many normal everyday folk who use the term 'police state', and its 'like Germany must have been before the war'. People talking in private about things that concern them, things that are wrong, and the hopelessness of the situation.

The UK government is blindly interlocked with US military policy. The US invaded Iraq, killed its head of state, and is now building up forces on a massive scale ready to invade Iran. On 7 January three Israeli F15's were intercepted heading on a one way trip to Iran. One was carrying a 20 megaton nuclear bomb. Recently China blew up an American satellite, so they have technology too.

Things are going from bad to worse and the likelihood is that the balloon is going to go up sometime soon. You can add climate change to the list, and that means massive increases in insurance, fuel and anything that uses either.

The UK is becoming a target for anyone with a grudge, the economy is on the brink of a recession with house prices falling, unemployment rising, interest rates rising, pensions in deep trouble, and immigration increasing. Our manufacturing industry has gone. The immigrants are selling cheap labour and putting UK workers on the dole.

When someone comes on to the forum and says that they would like to live in France, it is most likely a plea for help, rather than a naive jump into the unknown. I live and work in the UK, I am an analyst by trade and saw what was going to happen years ago. I bought a shell in France, it is now a 70% renovated shell. It is there because if the balloon goes up then I have a bolt-hole. If the balloon doesn't go up then it will hopefully become a retirement home.

All I can say is that if someone does say that they want a better life in France, then try and help them. They are probably very concerned for the future of their family if they stay here, and may well be asking out of desperation rather than jolly naiviety. I know that if I didn't know anything about France that this is where I would come for help and advice on how to get there, some of these enquiries may sound as if they haven't done any research, they may not have, but see this forum as the place to start. If someone wants to get to France then please help them, these people need advice on how to get there in the most sensible way and solutions to the problems that they will encounter.

I hope that this puts things into perspective, a simple 'How do I get work as driver in France' is not just that, it is 'I am a driver and I am worried sick about what will happen to me and my family if I stay here, so how do I go about getting over there'.

I don't know the answers, but I would bet that some forum members do, so if you do, let enquirers know them, it will be of immense benefit to us all.

Sorry for prattling on...

Rob G

 

 

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I think one message you will find on this forum is don't move to France (or anywhere else) to escape. Problems have a habit of following you.

By all means move to France for an adventure or a challenge. That's a postive reason, not a negative one.

Don't move to France because you don't like England. You may find plenty of reasons for not liking France either once the novelty has worn off. If you move to France because you like France that's different - again a positive, not a negative.

Plenty of people are very happy in France, some will find it's not for them. That's life.

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What I won't do is answer any questions on the basis that France is some kind of Utopia/another planet.

It just isn't. It is just nearby, and I suspect that the cheapish house prices are what attract most people, along with their seeming 'blind spot' relating to France being subject to the same pressures, conflicts, and miseries as any other developed western nation.

[quote user="Wibblywobbly"]

 However, those who have been living in France for more than 5 years would not recognise the UK nowadays. Drugs have infiltrated every corner of public and business life, they are driving up crime and destroying the entire social infrastructure. You can go to work and have no idea that the person sat next to you is on cocaine or smokes dope, you just notice that their behaviour is rather 'odd'.

[/quote]

You have to be kidding. Nearly all the adjuncts I know smoke dope. I live in a commune of less than 700 people.

Round here people consider it 'odd' if you don't clean your windows....every day (approaching a joke, but not quite). *

By the way, I cannot keep up with the adjuncts. They are very busy people, but it's nothing to do with cocaine. Trust me, I asked them. They do all their voluntary good deeds despite smoking the odd bit of weed. I suspect things are the same in UK.

*Including the dope smoking, cocaine abusing people.

Edit. In fact I cannot tell the difference between the adjuncts that take drugs, and those that don't. The oldest is 87, (she smokes pot, definitely)  the youngest is in her late 20's.

 

 

 

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[quote user="Wibblywobbly"]

" However, those who have been living in France for more than 5 years would not recognise the UK nowadays. Drugs have infiltrated every corner of public and business life, they are driving up crime and destroying the entire social infrastructure. You can go to work and have no idea that the person sat next to you is on cocaine or smokes dope, you just notice that their behaviour is rather 'odd'.

The politically correct brigade have turned life on its head, no one can say what they think anymore, they can only say what has been 'approved' using terminology that is 'appropriate'. In short life in the UK is now a 'controlled' existence, one in which the good guys are paying for the bad guys. We have more CCTV's per person than any other country in the world, we run the risk of fines for just about anything that we do in our everyday lives, we are fast becoming shackled wage slaves, and wage slaves don't rebel.

It is this that people want to escape from. I find myself in conversation with many normal everyday folk who use the term 'police state', and its 'like Germany must have been before the war'. People talking in private about things that concern them, things that are wrong, and the hopelessness of the situation.

The UK government is blindly interlocked with US military policy. The US invaded Iraq, killed its head of state, and is now building up forces on a massive scale ready to invade Iran. On 7 January three Israeli F15's were intercepted heading on a one way trip to Iran. One was carrying a 20 megaton nuclear bomb. Recently China blew up an American satellite, so they have technology too.

Things are going from bad to worse and the likelihood is that the balloon is going to go up sometime soon. You can add climate change to the list, and that means massive increases in insurance, fuel and anything that uses either.

The UK is becoming a target for anyone with a grudge, the economy is on the brink of a recession with house prices falling, unemployment rising, interest rates rising, pensions in deep trouble, and immigration increasing. Our manufacturing industry has gone. The immigrants are selling cheap labour and putting UK workers on the dole.

When someone comes on to the forum and says that they would like to live in France, it is most likely a plea for help, rather than a naive jump into the unknown. I live and work in the UK, I am an analyst by trade and saw what was going to happen years ago. I bought a shell in France, it is now a 70% renovated shell. It is there because if the balloon goes up then I have a bolt-hole. If the balloon doesn't go up then it will hopefully become a retirement home.

Sorry for prattling on...

Rob G

 

[/quote]

Not sure where you live, but If I lived in your world I would  have slit my wrists by now

Come to Shropshire and CHILL OUT

 

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LOL Wibbly Wobbly

 'I' have far too much integrity to encourage anyone to move based on things such as your, what were they exactly.......... Daily Mail offerings?

I'm afraid that most of your post was non sense. Do you really know so little about France, or maybe you don't want to. And I do realise that there are expat groups who just love 'not knowing about France' and knocking the UK, I think it is their hobby.

 

ps after 23 years here I lived in the UK a year ago for 5 months. It was Ok. We had the 'holiday' period and then 'real' life.

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TU, sorry but I can't laugh at this wibble person, though I do so agree with the rest of your post.

He/she (must be a he?) is a very sad individual to have such a negative view of what I presume is his country of birth. And is even more blinkered to think that none of this exists at present in, or will not soon come to, France.

How long have you spent actually living, and more to the point working, in France Mr Wibble?

There are plenty of nice things about France, but Utopia it certainly ain't, just as Britain is not the s***hole you describe.

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Well said Will - just spent 3 weeks back in the UK with the family and friends - Hampshire, London; Wales, Cornwall.  They all seemed OK, usual moans about the price of things (but I noticed they all kept their houses so hot we were in teeshirts - so the fuel bills can't be that horrendous).  None of them showing overwhelming panic or desire to move out.  One or two asked if we were coming back.   Came back here, most people OK, usual moans about the price of things and next year's elections.  Went to Athens last October to visit friends, usual moan about the price of things etc.  Currently got Germans staying, moaning about economy.  Bit like everywhere really.

Like I said in other post on this thread - Cornwall nice place, France nice place - mostly the same problems, bit different culture.  Nowhere is paradise and best know and understand the problems if you can, it helps you find a way round them.

 

PS Tresco - so you're the other hussy who doesn't do her 'carreaux' every day.  I wondered who she was![:)]

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[quote user="Will "]

..............but I can't laugh at this wibble person, .........................................

He/she (must be a he?) is a very sad individual to have such a negative view of what I presume is his country of birth. And is even more blinkered to think that none of this exists at present in, or will not soon come to, France.

[/quote]

So here is a guy who expressed an opinion and yet again he gets 'jumped on' in what is unfortunately becoming a trend by some individuals on this site. Whether you agree with his views or not, he is still entitled to make them and it's doubtful if anyone on here know anything of the circumstances in which he is currently living. The point he was trying to make about help for people thinking of moving to France seems to have been missed.

Disagreeing with a post is one thing, resorting to name-calling and character classification is something else.

And before I get attacked please read what I have actually said..............................................

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[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="Will "]

..............but I can't laugh at this wibble person, .........................................

He/she (must be a he?) is a very sad individual to have such a negative view of what I presume is his country of birth. And is even more blinkered to think that none of this exists at present in, or will not soon come to, France.

[/quote]

So here is a guy who expressed an opinion and yet again he gets 'jumped on' in what is unfortunately becoming a trend by some individuals on this site. Whether you agree with his views or not, he is still entitled to make them and it's doubtful if anyone on here know anything of the circumstances in which he is currently living. The point he was trying to make about help for people thinking of moving to France seems to have been missed.

Disagreeing with a post is one thing, resorting to name-calling and character classification is something else.

And before I get attacked please read what I have actually said..............................................

[/quote]

 

I felt 'jumped' on. I am being told that I am clueless about the UK as I  left over five years ago, mon grand, I left over 25 years ago so there shouldn't be any 'chance' for me at all, apparently.

The whole post just looked so bitter and twisted about the UK and the comments about France were, from my point of view, bordering on sheer rose spec'd fantasty.

Do people really want posts that tell them what the british media tell them already? They want all the rollocks one sees and reads 'confirming'? Now who in their right mind would contemplate a move without actually wanting to have a proper idea as to what life will really be like.

I'm so glad I moved to France when I did. We came without all this rubbish in the british media. My Dad warned me that France's politics could be erratic and even revolutionary and my friend offered to send me soap. I came with eyes wide open, into an unknown land and ready to learn. NEVER in all these years when I have gone back on holiday have I ever thought that either place was 'better' than the other, just different that is all.

And I'll tell you another thing. For us who LIVE here and have many french friends, we know that if we have something to say that we say it. It can be heated and it can also be a load of tosh, but everyone does it. It is the french way, I think an awful lot of pepole on here needed to leave their petit susceptbilities on the ferry.

 

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To be honest, there has always been a general balance on this forum in terms of people's responses to the "wots it like in France/UK" type of question.  In Wibble's case, he was quite happy to paint a picture of the UK as a present day Armageddon, but in the same breath, he objects to anyone doing the same for France.

In terms of expressing an opinion, his post consisted of a series of definitive statements purporting to be fact, so he must accept that people will challenge his position.....in the nicest possible way, of course [;-)]

 

 

 

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Bugbear, did you actually read WibblyWobblys post and also look at his website?  Do you think that Wibblywobby reads the various threads on this forum because if he did, I think he would see that there is excellent advice for those moving to France. However, he seems to want to hear the utopic nonsense on this very normal country.  For that, he could always buy the tons of books depicting France as some amazing idyllic, trouble/drug free paradise. He doesn't have to seek the advice of people who live here.  

I personally live in what  I would consider the France of the ‘average citizen’ and I will not paper over any ills nor knock it down for the sake of it.

Wibbly Wobbly, if you and others moving to France do not want to hear about the non ‘’France expo ‘’ version of this country, I suggest you get your ‘official’ information from Tourist Offices of your region and be done with it.

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Sorry Bugbear, don't mean to jump on anybody, but as this is a subject I feel particularly strongly about I felt I had the right to disagree with wibblywobbly and put my own view (as others had done beforehand). If wibblywobbly's views are his own, sincerely held opinions that's fine. But they did sound as if they had come straight from one of the tabloids (the stuff about Britain) and from one of the broadsheets (which this weekend ran a couple of promotional articles about moving to France). The tone of the post suggested it was a bit confrontational, so he would be very naive to expect not to be 'jumped on'.

I do find it hard to believe that some people (not you) see things in such black and white terms that if you live in France then you must hate Britain. Or if you point out some of the aspects of French life that the Place in the Sun programmes miss out then you are anti-French. I accept that's true for some people, but there are plenty of us who are capable of liking both places. As TU says, it doesn't make one any better than the other, just different.

I also think that several of us have given the original poster some useful background information and practical advice - not me personally because I don't know a lot about the subjects, but I do try to help when I can contribute something useful. There has also been a fair bit of banter and argument, but that's what forums like this are all about.

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This thread is giving me deja vu all over again!

Sweeping statements about anything are just plain unhelpful.  Hopefully anybody who sees Mr Wibble's views of the UK will take his comments about France with a pinch of salt in equal measure.  Neither country is perfect, neither country is 100% awful.  Whatever world Mr W lives in it is certainly not the one I recognise.

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