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Is France only for trades people and aspirant B&B Owners


Brett
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My wife and I have been researching the idea of moving to France for a number of years and I'm now starting to look seriously at it. I've read the many posts on this site offering great advice about the value of researching things first.

One thing I've noticed through watching TV shows and reading magazines is the story that is commonly told is "unhappy with life want France to solve it". Once people move to France, what do they do for income? Aspirant B&B owners seems to be de rigour and trades peoples skills seem to translate easily enough. If I was a journalist or author (Mayle, Turnbull et al) then perhaps that would be an option, but sadly I'm none of these things, nor do I want to run a B&B.

I'm a UK solicitor and understand that a move to France (except for some very limited circumstances in American firms based in Paris) make it almost impossible to rely on that profession for income (especially rural areas). Unlike a lot of other posts, I'm not at the retiring age but am at the about to start a family age - so I can't rely on an increase in property values in the UK for funding just right now.

So I find myself looking for inspiration. What could I do, what do people do to earn a living having moved from the UK. The TV shows and magazines never really tell you that. Does anyone care to offer some thoughts or advice? Do you think maybe a holiday home would be the best solution for now - getting the best of both worlds so to speak?

Sorry for the ramblings, I'd truly love to hear from people about what they do for survival.

Best,

Brett

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Brett,

You admitted retirees from your heading, as the majority of Brits heading to France to live permanently fall under the economically inactive category, according to official statistics.

Otherwise your summarry is astute, as one would expect from a solicitor! 

 

 

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Brett ..............

So .......... forget the B&B / Gite business

      ......... Law is a non-runner

      ..........insufficient capital to retire

      ..........not a tradesman

      ..........not a journalist

      .........."am at the about to start a family age"

Haven't you answered your own question?   You're approaching (or are maybe some way off) the peak of your career earning capability in your chosen profession.  Unless you want to go and live in the woods and rub sticks together, then forget moving over here for the next 20 years. Find a nice 2nd home as a shrewd investment.

Sorry if it's a bit blunt - realistic, though.

Best wishes

Ian

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I'm 100% with Ian on this one. I 'dreamed the dream' when in my 30s, with 3 teenage kids, established career, mortgage etc. We had to be honest - we couldn't do it and maintain our family or a decent lifestyle. In the end it turned out to be a holiday home for renovation in our early 50s - and very nice, too, in all ways it could be. Kids now bring their wives, in-laws and friends and enjoy the house, we enjoy with our friends, all very positive. Whether or not I would have been so positive struggling to make ends meet on SMIC I rather doubt...

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Brett

What the tv programmes don't tell you is that 50% of the people who move to France for the "better life" return within 3 to 5 years.

What the tv programmes don't tell you is that French people in your position look to living in England to sort their problems.

France is not the Promised Land. It is not crotch deep in pixie dust. It is just another country with problems. It is, however, a very agreeable place if you have the means to enjoy it.

 

Dick, try Bournvita or Horlicks.

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There is another possibility which hasn't been mentioned.................. the weekly commute.
It wouldn't suit everyone, but there are a fair few Brits who do it, either living up near the ports or taking the risk that the budget airlines will continue to fly into the airport closest to you.
My husband has been commuting to the UK from Normandy, every week for the last 3 1/2 years, sometimes working from home on a Monday or Friday - for us it is the best of both worlds and we have adapted very well, and as Clarkkent said, we have the means to enjoy France - I can have my horses and other animals, we can eat out, the children enjoy school and are doing well.
Another option to look at, perhaps?

Regards

Chris


 

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[quote user="Brett"]

. If I was a journalist or author (Mayle, Turnbull et al) then perhaps that would be an option, but sadly I'm none of these things, nor do I want to run a B&B.

[/quote]

I've been a professional writer and translator for over 20 years.  We're amongst the lucky ones as we make enough money to live without having to take a job at the Post Office (rare, believe me).  But, we have always been very cautious with spending money and we don't have any kids.  I think if we did, we would have had to make other choices.  For us, it is actually easier to live in France than it was in the U.S., because our living expenses are much lower.  Now, if we had lived in a rural community in the States as opposed to Los Angeles (or another big city), our costs might have been lower as well.

I suppose what one needs to look at is what interests you in life.  Do you feel that you would like to set up a business?  Are you able to do some of what you  need to do by telecommuting?  How are your language skills?  Are they good enough to enable you to cope in a foreign language?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

PG

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I agree with the others, France for permanent living is only for those with a transferable trade,job lined up or on a good monthly pension or private income. You are at the time of your life when you will need all the money you can get if children come along, believe you me and it dosn't stop there either,ours are in their 20's now and still in education in France. I suggest you buy a holiday home first as an investment and enjoy that,perhaps living longer than two weeks at a time if you can and then eventually this property will help you to decide whether you REALLY want to live in France full time or not. Seems a shame to waste your years of studying for working in an abbatoir here on the SMIC. Those of us that made the move may be very happy with our lives BUT we are no where as well off as we could have been had we stayed in the UK because the system here does not let you. As for commuting, low cost airlines are not to be relied upon, so many have been stopped after a couple of years as their local funding has dried up or the passenger numbers have declined.
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If  you don't know the SMIC is the minimum wage, which, after stoppages, and NOT including income tax you pick up about 900-1000 euros a month, depending on which job you would get.

I'm pretty sure that I have read or maybe been told that you have to be a french national to practice as a notaire in France, they I would imagine can earn more in a week than many people earn in a month.

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Thanks so much for all the wisdom and advice. I'm thankful for the honesty.

Language skills are advanced tourist and minimal conversation (if you excuse the terrible grammar).

I'll start considering some of the alternatives suggested here. The second home options and commute seem like interesting concepts! Perhaps a nice house just north of Kings Cross station for those quick getaways!

For those who have the vision of hindsight in offering the advice, was there anywhere in your experience you could pin point and say "that's where we miscalculated"?

 

 

 

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The heavy social charges. When we came here to live,we were the first and only english at the chambre de metiers and in the commune, the internet was new and we didn't even have a PC then and the books gave no real advice for setting up a businesses so it was quite a shock to recieve so many high demands each quarter,six monthly and yearly for so many things especially insurance to work and a tax professionelle just to work here. Renovation costs no problem as its our livlihood but the cost of materials TODAY is horrendous to 17 years ago when we first started work on our place and it didn't pay to bring anything from the UK. I would also say that if you are very social people who go out a lot,then it can be very boring here especially in the sticks and in the winter months and some people just cannot take to country living. Some poor misguided fools think they can buy loads of land,grow veg and raise poultry etc and live off that,it dosn't pay the electricity,water,telephone and other bills and I am forever seeing posts on other forums where folks have hit hard times and are grovelling around for anything in the work line just to put bread on their tables, you surely don't want that.
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I can't disagree with what Val says, she has been through it all herself of course, which is more than most of those responsible for the TV programmes and newspaper articles have. But people do manage to stay in France, even without private income or pension. This can often involve the black market - which as a lawyer you may or may not be horrified about. But with the costs and aggravations of working legally being so high, there are few people working in France (and I include French lawyers in that) who are not on the fiddle in some way.

Some think they will find something to bring in the cash, but that's not as easy as in Britain. You can't really try a business idea to get some pin money and hope it will develop, the system in France doesn't work that way. There's a lot of truth in the saying that 'the French don't have a word for entrepreneur'. Most of the business gaps catering to the English speakers in France have been plugged already by now, but you could strike lucky.

If you need to work, want to stay legal, not lose over half of your income, and don't want to accept the sort of menial unpleasant tasks which are about all that are available in rural areas where unemployment even among French speakers is very high, then the commuting option is probably the most sensible. It's hard, but if you need to have your main home in France, not as hard as many other solutions.

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Even though we had done loads of research we didn't anticipate the sheer difficulty and expense of working here.  We manage as there are only 2 of us but like Val we don't have anything like the income we could have in the UK.  More than the money though I find the attitude wears me down.  When we first arrived I rang a couple of temp agencies(manpower that kind of thing).  They wouldn't even take my details as I was too old (47), lived too far away (40 km and I have a car for go's sake) - everything was so negative.  Even when we were opening our B & B the local tourist office told me I probably wouldn't get French visitors as they would be suspicious of foreigners.  Now I'm a tenacious so and so, so we ccarried on regardless and now at least half of our visitors are French and I'm the vice-president of said Tourist Office so at least newcomers no longer get that welcome!     My husband has managed to find a job - he is retraining as an electician and plumber with a French company - but he was very, very lucky, most the time we enjoy it here but occasionally as the next wave of bureaucracy washes over me I do wonder why I didn't settle for an easier life.  You note as well, we are doing the artisan/B & B thing even though that is not what we did in previous lives.

I know several people who commute from here in SW France and they seem to be happy and more importantly better off.  If you can find a way of working partly from home and rreally want to live in France I think it is probably the best solution.

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My eldest & his wife are both solicitors with big firms in the City. Hes's hoping for a partnership in the next few years, but every so often he gets the yen to pack it all in and ....

Trouble is, all the '....' options bring in a fraction of their present income.

You need to ask yourself 'why France?' Do you really want to be in France or just not in a city. Do you actually want to give up the law or is it a question of sacrificing it to live where you want? Would it be more sensible to move to the West Country or wherever?

Really, it's all a variation on the question that turns up so often: are you running away or towards? You need to know the answers; we don't.
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Bret,

One option that is a half way house is have you considered getting a finance industry job in Jersey or Guernsey? Like the UK was thirty years ago in terms of quality of life, with a strong French influence as Normandy is just twelve miles from Jersey.

Contrary to belief, getting a housing permit in the Islands is not difficult and in Jersey is a lot easier than it once was, if you are a professional such as yourself and obtain an offer of employment appropriate for your qualifications.

There are a significant number of major commercial law firms in the Island who between them employ thousands of people and due to rapid growth in areas such as expert funds are struggling to find new lawyers, most of whom are recruited in the UK.

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If you would both find it easy to find new employment on your return, why not take a grown up gap year? Let your property, rent something in France, scrape together some savings and try first. Perhaps your companies might even give you sabbaticals. It might be your last chance for an adventure before you start a family. At the very least you should aquire some good language skills which could be useful, however your future goes.
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Cerise talks sense.

The more money you have, the more you can enjoy France.  There is nothing noble in poverty, it's just depressing, and no amount of lettuce makes up for it.

The Anglo-Saxon conditioning (turn your hand to anything, work hard, you'll reap the benefits etc) is a Good Thing, but as people have said, it's not the way France works, and you're going against a very strong current.

OTOH, only dead fish swim with the current.  [:)] 

In short, think MONEY first, and France after. 

 

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Another option is working from home on a consultancy basis, where most of your clients are English speaking or for an international company hiring freelancers.  Obviously depends on what your skill set is, but you could do jobs based on translations, desk research, report writing, journalism, graphic design, strategy writing etc etc with frequent trips to your clients' base.  I work in a research capacity for an international company at the moment, but I freelanced for a few months and was amazed at how much work I was offered in a short period of time.  My husband works for the same company he did in the UK writing software but does all the work from home and spending a few days a month in the office.  Yes he pays a lot of social insurance, but the public services we receive in our area are amazing so it softens the blow a little.  With a combination of the EU, internet and cheap flights, working from home (whereever home is) is totally feasible.  Think of all the people who work from home in the UK - if you can do it from Cornwall, why not from France....  But I would agree with those who say, make sure you can earn the money and have a decent standard of living before going.

 

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The retired have been heading for France (Dordogneshire) for years and pre "Home in the Sun." I suppose France for those on service or teacher pensions will be able to cope without  the necessity for a job or the need to join an already bloated Gite or B+B tourist market.
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