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Any info on new cheque d'emploi??


zeb
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A friend has just mentioned an all singing and all dancing updated cheque d'emploi which is currently being introduced. Has anyone got any information on it as it apparently may now be easier for me to take on extra help legally during periods of excessive grass cutting (and pay them a pittance, err sorry, SMIC)?
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If you are just doing a small  bit of work such gardening or cleaning,  then being paid by the cheque emploi  cuts out the need for registering, paying contributions etc.The person giving you the cheque pays the "overheads" for you. You still need to declare the income for tax purposes.

You are not supposed to do any building work that would require registration.

 

 

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BJSLIV - thanks but as I understand it, the cheque d'emploi system has been expanded and is now called something different - apparently it can now be used by small entreprises and not just for domestic help as in the past. There was information in newspapers earlier in the week but I missed it.

I can read some French but want to be absolutely clear so would really like an English explanation by someone who read the article.
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Sorry zeb I was replying to Temp in France.

Yes there is now a similar system for a small employer who can pay "casual" staff by the Chèque Emploi TPE or the existing TEE Occasionel. It works the same way as the other homework cheque emploi. You agree the rate of pay, hand over the special cheque and the sytem grosses that up and charges you all the appropriate contributions.

There is plenty of info at

http://www.apce.com/index.php?rubrique_id=60&type_page=I

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I had details in the post today about a new 'cheque emploi service universel'. The brochure I got, from URSSAF de la Manche, is a bit sketchy on the details, but it seems to apply to individuals (rather than businesses) employing other individuals to do a whole raft of tasks, which include small gardening jobs, babysitting, laundry, dog walking and general handyman type activities (though some seem to apply to dependent persons). So it may be of interest to some forum members, though I appreciate that it isn't the scheme the original questioners were thinking about.

Apparently there is full information at http://www.cesu.urssaf.fr

Edit - I notice Clair has already mentioned this.

 

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I think there is some confusion here about the existing Cheque emploi system, the CESU which was for gardening, baby-sitting, small DIY jobs in the home and such like, and the new system which covers the building industry and other sectors. The CESU can be used by private individuals who have a bank account in France, who want to employ somebody legally for the aforementioned catergories of work.

As an employer in France, I have received a quite a lot of information from various trade bodies about the new cheque emploi system, the Cheque emploi TPE , which since September 2005, has now been extended for small businesses in the construction industry, and is a revamp of a system that has been in place for a while.

Basically, along with the new types of simplified employment contracts such as the CNE ( contrat nouvelle embauche),  it has been introduced for TPE (tres petites entreprises) with up to five employees and is called Cheque emploi TPE, to simplify the ridiculously bureaucratic employment process for employers who need to embauche someone.

If you have a registered business in France, you register at one of three centres depending on you activity, then fill out a declaration about the employee and send it back. This declaration serves as an employment contract, and forgoes the need for an employer to notify all the various caisses as this is all done for you by the centre you are with. You also fill out another form the Volet social detailing hours worked, pay rate etc and the two forms are all that is needed. The Centre then sends you a bulletin de paie to give to the employee, and the amount of employer cotisations to pay at the end of the month.

The link for full information is here ; www.emploitpe.fr 

Paul

 

 

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Hello. Does anyone know off-hand if the system has expanded to incorporate 'office type' work or work undertaken from home. I'm not due to live back in France till later this year, but I might have an chance to do a little bit of work for a French rental company (I am trying to talk them into it!) and being able to work under this system would greatly help my case. The work would involve about one day per week admin'...perhaps 8 hours per week is too many to fit this system though.  
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  • 11 months later...

I was most interested in your post on the Cheque emploi system and would much appreciate your view. Is the nub of your post that the overall costs, when taxes and social security payments are levied, make the Cheque emploi system too expensive overall for major building projects - hence, really only suitable for baby-sitting, small-scale gardening etc?  I ask because the patron of our building company just decided to go into administration in the middle of our large-scale barn conversion project. Here in the north of Haute Vienne we get some serious rain at this time of year and although the roof is finished, there are few more windows and doors to fit plus lots of plumbing, electrics and platre panels to fix. The French artisans are all fine workers and we would be willing to employ them directly under an "approved" scheme and they are also willing. But obviously the Cheque emploi system would be prohibitive if we also have to bear the cost of tax, social security etc in addition to regular pay rates. If a recipient is prepared to accept a pay rate that allows for the other charges, could it be workable for any scale of employment or project, nothwithstanding the admin required for each worker?  We are not in business ourselves and are no longer an employer - thank God! 

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I get the feeling there could be some confusion regarding the use of Cheque Emploi Service Universel (CESU) and Cheque Emploi TPE.

CESU is for a private individual whishing to emploi a private individual for work related to his/her private home.

TPE is for a small company employing no more than 5 employees, whishing to pay current or new employees without the usual red tape and paperwork.

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I don't have any personal experience of cheque emploi, although my in-laws use it for their gardener.

The economics make sense,though, assuming that you didn't pay the patron up front for work that is still to be done.. Effectively you pay the employee his take-home rate and the government takes his cotisations, etc. from you. In theory taking on one of the artisans who was already on the job directly should just remove the patron's profit from the equation, although the deductions may be different.

If these guys were his employees they'd probably be pleased to get a bit of work to tide them over. If they were sub-contract then the situation will depend on whether they have other work they can bring forward, but that's a matter of negotiation. Of course, if they were self-employed subbies then you should not need cheque emploi anyway.

I reckon it's worth talking to them (get an interpreter if you're not confident) and seeing what they think.

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You will need to tread carefully.

You say the builder has gone into administration. If the plumbers etc are sub contractors you will already be liable to pay them anything owed to them by the main contractor.

Your contract may be an asset of the building firm and the administrator may wish to sell it on as part of the process of getting something for the remains of the business.

If the workers are not subcontractors and have been employees of the main contractor and want to use them to complete the job, they would have to set themselves up as self employed  artisans before you could legally employ them. They may not want to do this.

The use of the cheque emploi system for construction work is not legal.

You may wish to take professional legal advice before doing anything. You need to confirm your rights and obligations with regard to your main contractor.

PS If it was such a large conversion, did you subscribe the completion insurance that goes with new build projects? This would pass the headaches to your insurance company.

 

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You cannot use the CESU system for things like building work.

The cheque emploi TEP can be used for such work, but only by small businesses (less than five staff), not by individuals. The advantage, as I see it, for such companies is that it allows them to legally employ temporary staff who might not themselves be registered self-employed tradesmen, and without the hassle of French employment contracts etc. It may be slightly more expensive than employing somebody on a contract (though I doubt if there is much in it), but a lot less hassle.

Therefore as an individual wanting to complete a building project the system would not be for you. You would need to use self-employed labour, either direct, or through a project manager.

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[quote user="tempinfrance"]Hello. Does anyone know off-hand if the system has expanded to incorporate 'office type' work or work undertaken from home. I'm not due to live back in France till later this year, but I might have an chance to do a little bit of work for a French rental company (I am trying to talk them into it!) and being able to work under this system would greatly help my case. The work would involve about one day per week admin'...perhaps 8 hours per week is too many to fit this system though.  [/quote]

Hi,

   I have recently started working under the cheque emploi scheme. You do not have to register, the person employing you has to apply to his/her bank for the actual cheque emploi cheque book, you tell him/her what your rate is and they write a cheque for the amount owed to you, they then pay a percentage of that amount for each of the cotizations due. You will receive an attestation d'emploi from CESU with a breakdown of those payments and they will also give you a Sécurité Sociale number, you should keep these documents safe. 8 hours per week is possible as the CESU have informed me that to qualify for a Carte Vitalle I will need to do at least 60 hours work per month.

    Whether this will all work out for you in the work you have been offered is to be seen. the person(s) paying you can count the cheque emploi payment made to you against their yearly tax return so it seems to be only of benefit to a resident French tax payer, however one of my clients that I do gardening work for and who is not resident has been told that he will receive refund of some of the charges due to him being over 70. The rules seem very complex and you may need to see an accountant to have it all correct, I am fortunate that my very first client turned out to be an accountant and has helped me through these early stages, as I learn more I may post it here for information purposes. always take professional advice though.

    we were given lots of advice when we first arrived in France which lead to very difficult times with payment of cotizations and after 4 years is now only being cleared.

good luck and best regards

[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/dago49/Dago3.jpg[/IMG]

   

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[quote user="Dago"]You do not have to register, the person employing you has to apply to his/her bank for the actual cheque emploi cheque book, you tell him/her what your rate is and they write a cheque for the amount owed to you, they then pay a percentage of that amount for each of the cotizations due. You will receive an attestation d'emploi from CESU with a breakdown of those payments and they will also give you a Sécurité Sociale number, you should keep these documents safe. 8 hours per week is possible as the CESU have informed me that to qualify for a Carte Vitalle I will need to do at least 60 hours work per month.[/quote]

Hi Dago, just to clarify: you do not need to work 60 hours a month to qualify for a carte vitale, this is automatic as soon as you/your employer start paying into the system, but you do need to work 60 hours a month to qualify for its benefits (sickness pay for instance), as I found out to my cost when I was signed off after a car accident...

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