beginners question on the different registration organisation

[freddy]

As a bit of a beginner - I may move to France in the future and am trying to understand the options for earning money. I have a couple of very basic questions. I have trawled this board and cannot find the answer.

Q1. under the cheque d'emploi system is there an upper limit to what you can earn before you have to register - say you can find enough work for individuals doing this and that on their privat homes.

Q2. If you do register as a micro-bic you have to register with the right organisation and can possibly add other jobs if they fall under the same organisation without having to pay 2 lots of cotisons. Can anyone tell me what the different organisations are and what jobs they cover. This must be avaialble on a website somewhere but I can't find it.

Q3. I suspect I know the answer to this - if you start a microbic is it just you who can work for it or can a husband and wife work for the same one?

[mmaddock]

[quote user="freddy"]

Q2. If you do register as a micro-bic you have to register with the right organisation and can possibly add other jobs if they fall under the same organisation without having to pay 2 lots of cotisons. Can anyone tell me what the different organisations are and what jobs they cover. This must be avaialble on a website somewhere but I can't find it.

[/quote]

Chambre de Commerce for sales related businesses

Chambre de Metiers for artisans (plumbing, builders, etc. - anything to do with you 'making' something)

If you register at the C\Commerce (I don't know about the Metiers) you can regsiter to do as many things as you like that come under their umbrella on the registration form (you can add things later, but it costs money!)

[quote user="freddy"]

Q3. I suspect I know the answer to this - if you start a microbic is it just you who can work for it or can a husband and wife work for the same one?

[/quote]

Don't confuse the tax regime (Micro-BIC) with the business type.  There are two basic business types you would start.  Enterprise Indivduelle or SARL (equivalent of Ltd Co).  The Micro-BIC is a tax regime, and either type of company can use that regime.  Even if you register as an Enterprise Individuelle you can employ people (as many as you like) in the same way as you would a SARL.  Be careful though, because if you employ someone in France, as the employer, the govt take tax to the equivalent value of approximately the same amount of salary you pay the employee! (not to mention that the employee pays tax out of their own wages too!)  Not exactly conducive to creating jobs!  It is better that you only pay yourself as the non-salaried owner.  Family often work for 'free' to avoid, in effect, paying the salary twice over.  I know quite a few locals who run their business in this way.  You need to get to the local CC to discuss it as it is quite complicated, especially when it comes to medical stuff.  I registered my business assuming that my wife would be covered for medical under my cotestations, but in fact only myself and our children are covered under my payments and registration.  I could have registered her as a non-working partner in the business, but I didn't know that at the time!

Matt

[freddy]

Many thanks for that that clarifies some of things - actually better than I thought.

In terms of the two chambres could you register with metiers if you sold things as part of providing a service, for example you set up a business fixing computer problems, most of this comes under services for the work you do - some things come under selling things e.g. replacement parts say a new hard disk or someone asks you to set up a network so you provide the parts as part of the service.

[mmaddock]

[quote user="freddy"]

Many thanks for that that clarifies some of things - actually better than I thought.

In terms of the two chambres could you register with metiers if you sold things as part of providing a service, for example you set up a business fixing computer problems, most of this comes under services for the work you do - some things come under selling things e.g. replacement parts say a new hard disk or someone asks you to set up a network so you provide the parts as part of the service.

[/quote]

I believe that sort of thing comes under the Chambre de Commerce.  As far as I am aware 'services' like that all come under the C/Commerce - at least whenever I spoke to the guy in the local computer shop he always talked about going to the C/Commerce.  I think the best way to think of it is that the Metiers is for Artisans where the work involves some sort of 'creation' in some way or another - I guess that is probably about the simplest way of putting it.

Best thing really is to speak to someone in the local Chamber of Commerce in the area you are considering, my experience is that they are very helpful, and often there is someone around who will speak English, or they will put you onto someone who does.

Matt

[Panda]

Hi Matt

I was surprised at your quote regarding your wife being covered by your cotisations, everyone I know who works here has just the one income and share the same ss number with their partner and pay only the one set of cotisations to RAM or whom ever.  How is your wife covered out of interest does she have to pay independently?  I thought that RAM were a bit cautious with my case as it's me who works (female) and they were reluctant to have my OH on the same registration but I said if it were the other way around then you would accept it, she agreed and we now pay one set of cotisations and we are all covered (me, husband and son).  My husband is also not registered as having anything to do with my business nor has anyone ever asked me to do this.

Regards

Panda

[zeb]

You can register your spouse as conjoint. A bit extra is paid in cotisations but then the spouse will be entitled to health/pension in their own right.

As conjoint though, the spouse can only work in the business, not set up and run something unrelated.

Say if you ran the computer repairs business, your wife could also repair computers, take your phone calls, do deliveries, run your shop etc but could not run a hairdressing salon on your registration number.

My garden/property maintenance business (registered at the Chambre de Commerce) was registered in my name with my husband as conjoint (yes, eyebrows were raised) but then he had more work than I and it had evolved into mainly building related work, so we deregistered at the CdM and reregistered in his name at the Chambre de Metiers with me as conjoint so I can go out and do tiling/labouring jobs for him (but don't!). I just make tea, take phone calls, wash his filthy clothes and collect paperwork for the accountant.

There is a fairly useful site available for business set ups/tax regimes.........I think Will can lead you to it.

[Panda]

Hello

This is not the case for us, my husband is not registered as anything to do with my business, merely a dependent of mine as he is not working (he's renovating) and although RAM were a bit reluctant they did accept this and we pay one set of cotisations. 

He will not be getting any pension I'm sure (nor will I as we won't have had enough years to gain one) but he does get the same health cover as me.  We have a plumber friend and and electrician and both are the same, the wife is not registered as part of the business, this would be the same if I got a salaried job and my husband was not working, he would be dependent on my salary so I can't see how it's different just because you are self employed.  Perhaps someone can point out what I'm missing here...

Pnda