making a living as a cabinet maker in France

[JoGill]

We run a small bespoke kitchen and handmade furniture workshop here in the uk (www.allthingstimber.com) and are looking to transfer the business out to france in the near future. Thought that it may take a year or two but weve just fallen in love with a property in the Aveyron! Well probably have to stay put for a while and do the rennovation to both the house and barns (for a workshop and possibly a gite) as and when we have the time....and whilst the garunteed money is still comng in. We were wondering however if anyone out there could give us a bit of advice....

What do we need to do in terms of registering the business and my husband as an artisan (he has no formal quals but has had 5 yrs of running the business)?

Will our 3 phase machinery work in France or how does it need to be converted?

Is there the call for our kind of work in SW france?

At first we thought it was more exciting than scary.....not so sure now

cheers

Jo

[Val_2]

You would need to register at the local Chambre de Metiers and take a five day business course in french, english not that useful because you will be dealing with french suppliers,accountants etc so you need to work onthe language. Once registered you go into the system and depending onyour circumstances, which type of regime regarding TVA or non TVA registered. From then on in you will start to pay hefty social charges which will increase on the third year and be in line with any profits you make and there are several to pay,so you will never make a huge fortune here as the system is designed to prevent that. Saying all that, we are in our twelth year now so we know you can make a living but it is hard and you cannot get credit as easy here as you can over there. You will need a good accoun tant of whom you will be given details of on the stage de gestion. Regarding three phase machinery, we have over the years bought new woodworking machines from the UK with this power and they work fine here,just make sure your supply is upto the standard.  We sometimes do contract work for a local kitchen furniture artisan and he is always busy but you must be competitive, not greedy and currently the going rate for a skilled artisan is 30€/hour upwards depending on the work involved.

[Will]

What Val says is right, she should know, as she says she has plenty of personal experience.

I do think that you could do well, there is a demand for good quality but not expensive furniture, particularly kitchens. There is plenty of cheap chipboard, and plenty of ornately carved or very rustic stuff, but not a lot in between other than the inevitable mexican-styled pine.

 

[Val_2]

Yes, the french are willing to pay for good workmanship and goods so if you can break into the local market all the better. We get a lot of our work by word of mouth as people don't always realise what we do and are pleasantly surprised to find they have someone right on the doorstep,your business could be the same. I would suggest you get an expo up and running asap once you are registered as this is what they do here so folks can touch and see your workmanship and a little local publicity goes a long way too rather than some glossy magazine aimed at just a foreign market. Some of the flat pack kitchen stuff you find here is pretty naff and has a limited lifespan especially the cheaper outlets so for an everyday working kitchen folks are interested in quality goods. Be warned that buying timber in france is completely different. When we have menuiserie especially staircases to make, you have to order whole trees unless there are enough planks in stock to suffice, then plane them yourself which means you need a good selection of machines.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I have met an English cabinet maker here in the Vendée - friend of a friend - who's been in business for a couple of years now. As I recall he registered through the chambre de metiers but was spared the five day course because his profession required no actual formal qualification in France unlike - say - a plumber. 

I should mention that the Vendée takes a more relaxed approached to this sort of thing in an attempt to be more business friendly (in this weeks edition of L'Express there is reference to the "Vendéen economic miracle" which is laying it on a bit think in my view, but that's journos for you), so you'd need to sound out local attitudes, but there certainly does seem to be a good market for bespoke furniture. His order book was very healthy for the coming months.

[londoneye]

that is interesting because OH is vaguely thinking of options to keep him busy in a few years time, when we have finished renovating, and being a carpenter by trade is wondering about making up bespoke doors, windows etc.       He was taught carpentry by master carpenter more than 25 years ago, but has no qualifications as such, do you think the same would apply to him (presupposing he decides to do this at some point) regarding the 5 day course ?   eg not having to do it?

[Val_2]

To become an artisan in France you have to sign on with the local Chambre de Metiers in your nearest town who do the five day stage de gestion but this seems to vary from one dept to another by all accounts these days regarding english newcomers. However it is the Chambre who will issue the all important obligatory SIRET number, affiliate the artisan to all the cotisation bodies and health cover aspects so you cannot become anything without going through them first. As regards qualifications, again depends on dept,we did not have to supply anything twelve years ago but we had already been running a business for 20 years previously and were the first english here to be registered so they had no ideas about foreigners. UK bodies like Federation of Master Builders,Guild of Master Craftsmen and CORGI etc mean absolutely nothing at all in France so you cannot use those as a qualification of sorts.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

As Val says - it will depend upon the attitude of the Dept you are in, and things can change. You will have to check locally, I'm afraid.

[Patf]

We have recently had some windows made and fitted by an artisan and we are very pleased with them. He and his brother are in business together and have loads of work from french and expats. We also need a new staircase and have tried several menuiseries all of whom have a waiting list of months. So we have ordered one from a big DIY store but would have rather have had one from a private firm. There is certainly much demand in our area. Pat.

[JoGill]

Thanks everyone, for your replies. I feel like I am a sponge soaking up as much info as I can get! We are flying ot to Rodez tommorrow morning (if the snow doesnt scupper everything) to take a realistic view of the house and also be really critical about whether the rurality of the location could really support a business. Im grateful for all of your advice and it will help us not to look at it too much with rose (or is that frost?) tinted specs

cheers

Jo

[Chris Head]

Jo, you two are lucky that hubby has a skill that is instantly transferable and desirable, if his work is good and you've both got the guts to make the move then you should at least make enough to live your dream...BUT it's not quite as simple as that! As a word of encouragement, I'm in a similar field and have 18 months of projected income lined up and have the luxury of picking and choosing now.

Please feel free to contact me, I'd love to help if I can.

[Adrian]

Hi Jo

 

We run a small bespoke furniture and kitchen workshop in Sydney Australia (www.chaldecott.com.au). We are considering a possibility of  moving our workshop to France. We would be very interested to know how you have progressed with with your business in the last few months.

 many thanks,

Adrian

 

[Ian]

Just wanted to put a plug in for my local town Revel (in 31) - it is home to many cabinet makers.  Those of you interested in the art / industry should check it out.