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new start in life and business


Phil 1968
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I am looking at turning my back on old blighty and start a new life in France. I have a wife and two children (9 & 13) and a hunger to make a better life for us all. Property is cheaper in France as we all can see, but the job front is a minefield to say the least. My dream is to make my own destiny and my childrens future a better one than blighty can offer. I was looking into buying a house with some (large-ish) land, and open a campsite / touring caravan park. Normandy / Brittany are areas I have been to and like them both. A bold move, but hopefully one that would provide a summer income and a start to fulfilment. Am I barking up the wrong tree to try and set up a new business in a new country or should I settle for the paid employment route and have the 'safe' money coming in? I have been self employed in England and working for myself is not an obstacle that scares me, even in a foreign land. I have a HGV licence and I am a working mechanic and a 'jobbing' builder, 3 'jobs' to fall back on during winter? I am not work shy and realise that either route is at least a 2 /3 year struggle to get on an even keel.

So the question is this, do I take the plunge and go for the land and life, or take a job and start to build a new life?

Thanks in anticipation

Phil.

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Not so sure how much cheaper property is in France.

Depends where you come from and where you wish to settle.

It also depends on so many other things...how much have you have in saving and you will need to  pay monthly for health care unless you are fully employed by someone who is registered with a siret number.OR IS YOU WORK FOR YOURSELF YOU WILL NEED A SIRET NUMBER.

It is possable that this year will see less visitors to France from UK as the strength of the euro may well keep them away.

Do you...or your partner speak some French?
I have recently arrived with my partner and we have very close friends who live about an hour and a half away...she is bi-lingual and has helped us through many complex moments.

There is so much to understand and learn...and I have owned two other properties in France before.

Not all of the ENGLISH PEOPLE  who move over here are friendly or helpfull...suprising ...

I have met some really lovely French people.

 

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[quote user="Phil 1968"]

I am looking at turning my back on old blighty and start a new life in France. ... So the question is this, do I take the plunge and go for the land and life, or take a job and start to build a new life?

[/quote]

There are lots of opinions about how easily you can make the move, although you seem more realistic about it than many posters.

The questions you need to ask yourself are:

What do I want to change in my (our) life?

Will moving to France give me a better chance than a less risky route?

One issue you need to think about is your kids' situation. Uprooting a 13 year old is full of risks, partly social and partly educational.

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Well Jon, that's good in theory, but new arrivals cannot now arrive "penniless" they have to prove they will not be a burden on the state:

 See THIS  

O/P:  You seem to me to be doing the right thing and that is RESEARCH.  IMO, nothing beats it.  Forget the rose tinted specs, but forget the dark glasses too.  What you want to do is possible, and it could be a really good decision but it ain't all fun and games here, and it can be expensive in terms of taxation and other social contributions.  There are lots of people on here who've gone for it and who are happy with their decision, but equally there are many for whom the opposite is the case.  I suspect (although I could be wrong) that the latter group just did not look carefully enough at all the implications.  Take your time, do not rush into anything, and make sure that your whole family has the same attitude to this as you.  One unhappy child could turn a family dream into a nightmare.

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If you are able to get paid employment, I would buy your house and bit of land but take the employment first of all to give you time to settle in.  No doubt about it, it is incredibly hard to make a living here unless you already have loads of dosh when you arrive.  If you already have loads of money then whatever you do is OK.  If you don't then watching the little capital you have dwindle is scary.

If you can be employed (even if not well paid) whilst you move in, get the kids sorted at school, get your French up to scratch and decide whether you like it here then you can get yourelves up and ready to start business whilst still earning.   Many people arrive and find,if self employed, that they are unable to get going due to various bureaucracy for some time.  If one of you is earning the other can scurry about doing all the paperwork stuff and you can quit the paid employment (or not) when the business is ready to go.

We've been here 6 years - we are not rich, but we are managing to get by HOWEVER I run our B & B and my husband has a salaried job.  Without both lots of money we couldn't manage and we don't have children.  Salaries (unless you are bilingual and very lucky) are a great deal lower than in UK but it is a form of security.

 

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[quote user="Phil 1968"]

 I was looking into buying a house with some (large-ish) land, and open a campsite / touring caravan park.

[/quote]

I'm sorry Phil but unless you've got an awful lot of money to invest it is totally unrealistic to expect to make a living in this way.

Just try Googling something like campsites for sale in France and then see the sort of prices these places fetch and then think how much you will need to put in after you've bought your land before you can start to earn enough to keep your family. It's unlikely that a site with less than 100 emplacements will bring in enough money to allow you to live and invest for the future.

There is a beaurocratic nightmare in setting up any business in France but the leisure industry brings additional problems.

Yes there are campsites which only open a limited number of weeks a year but this is almost a pin money operation for a stay at home wife and will never make you enough money to live on.

Negative but I hope realistic.

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Cooperlola...what is good in theory!!!!!!!!!!.

O f course you can not arrive here penniless! France is not uk.

I have worked for years to get here...very hard....

I have not come here to take and that is the safest attitude.I can really understand why people wish to settle in France....and, of course it all depends on so many factors as whether it will work ou.t.

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[quote user="jon"]

Cooperlola...what is good in theory!!!!!!!!!!.

O f course you can not arrive here penniless! France is not uk.

I have worked for years to get here...very hard....

I have not come here to take and that is the safest attitude.I can really understand why people wish to settle in France....and, of course it all depends on so many factors as whether it will work ou.t.

[/quote]This bit: "you have to penniless or a new arrival to get assistance"
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IN UK YOU HAVE TO BE PENNILESS OR A NEW ARRIVAL........THE UK ...NOT FRANCE.

YES IF YOU ARE IN THAT POSITION IN UKYOU GET HELP.

The  leusure industry industry in UK ..is a very very difficult.I do not know if any of you have owned restaurants, Hotels or guests houses in UK but I spent about 30 years in the restaurant buisness and can I know plenty about the good aspects and the side which is close to hell.

I admit I know nothing about campsites and it would not be something which I am attracted to.However it is obviosly more difficult to arrive in  another country to set-up a buisness which is unformiliar to you.Some of you seem to enjoy talking down to people............not very attractive !

 

 

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[quote user="jon"]

I admit I know nothing about campsites

 

[/quote]

I do, jon, which is why I thought it was worth passing on my opinion and thoughts to Phil.

I believe my final comment was.... Negative but I hope realistic.

It might help Phil if we tried to stay on topic on this one.

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[quote user="cooperlola"]

Well Jon, that's good in theory, but new arrivals cannot now arrive "penniless" they have to prove they will not be a burden on the state:

[/quote]

This was always the case apart from the 'lost years' 2000-2007

I had to both prove that I could support myself (either a job contract, or proof of income etc in the UK) plus have PHI if not covered by the fact of working, and so be elegible for the normal route in to Health Care.

Without these you couldn't get a carte de séjour (no longer necessary, but obligatory then)

Unfortunately for a group of people,  badly thought out temporary changes made to these arrangements by the socialist Jospin government have now been rectified, and the status quo re-established.

I notice that this atypical group (those who arrived between 2000-2007) are rather vociferous on these boards, and continue to assume that the various changes are something new.

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On a positive note,for a change, if you do the required exam for HGV driving,it seems that there is always jobs in that section. Perhaps if a company took you on and you got the Employee status it would give you a start whilst exploring your other options. Perhaps you could rent out your UK house,presuming you have one, and rent over here for 6months to a year to see if your family find they will fit in and be happier?

The lower cost of houses here is perhaps a facture that attracted a lot of us here but that in many areas is no longer the case. The parts with very cheap properties are cheap for a reason,quite high unemployment,miles from shops/schools/services. If you buy in the sticks and you manage to get a job ,bear in mind that wife and family still have to have a life and get about. Regarding campsites,no I don't have one, a seasonal B&B yes,bear in mind that the season is in reality 8-10 weeks if your lucky.We have noticed 2 near us,within easy reach of beaches/shops/tourist attractions,were virtually empty last year due to the weather.

If you can keep a decent lump of cash in UK,or your home,it may pay to feel the water first and find out what the outgoings involved of a family being here and of course,the expenditure involved of setting up a business to required standards.I think the idea of a field with a tap in it are long gone. No more the" Ball-Trap on the Cote Sauvage"

Regards, and Bonne Chance.

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Jon, I applogise, I did misread your post!  I was misled because I was under the impression that the o/p had asked about moving to France, not the UK.

Groslard, nobody disputes that one had to prove income in the old days.  However, private healthcare was not compulsary in order to be allowed to live here legally.  One could take the chance and pay as you went.  Now you cannot.  That is the difference.  Nobody who was here before 2000 is affected by the changes so your continued reference to what happened in what you see as "the good old days" is - in this context - irrelevant.  And you were aware of the rules when you arrived - nobody made your residence illegal after you had legally obtained the right to it.  Even the French government acknowledges this as it says in its instructions to CPAMs that current subscribers to CMU-B cannot have their rights withdrawn "because this would be tantamout to denying them a residency right which they had already achieved" and yet they are not applying this to E106 holders who have already gained the right by the same route.  Of course governments change, and of course laws change but doing it retrospectively, and to non-French Europeans only, is discriminatory and in the case of people who are ill - inhumane to boot.

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    I am not an accomplished typist or computor excpert....and my capitals arear "willy nilly "as I write.I am not shouting.

If I did not have a good chance of a better life here...I dare say that I would not have moved.The young chap with children who wishes to open a campsite...I imagine that he has a notion...but possably not enough money to carry it through.You have to concider the children and how you can make a living...and how much that income will be.made.....add on health insurance.It is good to pass on advise but everyones dream is different and needs seperate concideration.

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[quote user="jon"]... I am not an accomplished typist or computor excpert....and my capitals arear "willy nilly "as I write.I am not shouting.

[/quote]

Hi Jon.

RH was giving you good advice.

In terms of internet ettiquette (netiquette) Caps are deemed to be shouting, and so are best avoided, unless you intend to 'shout'.[:)]

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[quote user="jon"]That was nicely put....not sharp...and to the point...If you are a newcomer...you appreicate this.[/quote]I used to have just the same trouble with my mobile, Jon.  Changing from upper to lower case was a nightmare for me and I could never figure out how to do it so sent all my texts in capitals.  Then one day, my o/h who is much more familiar with such things said: "Why do you always shout when you text me?"  Ones lives and learns!

Welcome to the forum, btw, and honestly I didn't mind that you shouted - in fact I thought it was because I had foolishly failed to read your post properly[;-)]

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WOW thanks everyone for some great replies. You have all made some valid points and given my hunger a morsel to eat!

its my first time in the forums and i have read some advice in other posts. To walk a thousand miles you must take the first step, and my journey has just begun! There are a lot of things to think about in your replies and i shall consider them all in my research for a better quality of life for my family. Except the political ones of course ahem (haha). 2000 - 2007 wasn't a great time for me either and the dark glasses are hidden away with the rosey ones, wide eyes, two ears and one mouth to be used in the right order is my plan. Please keep the discussion open and i'll get back in here soon and digest more of your knowledge.

Thank you all,

Phil.

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Hi Phil

Others have answered the jobs question but I'd like to make a couple of comments with regard to bringing children to France. We've been here 3 years and my two are aged 10 and 12.

13 is a really difficult age to bring a child to France. Some have done it and managed but many more have not.  My son's head, in a recent conversation, asked me to tell all my friends that they shouldn't bring college-age children here as it is too stressfulf for them, too hard on the teachers and means that their attention is taken from the rest of the class. Help for non-french speaking children varies from one-to-one lessons to absolutely nothing at all.

The French system is very rigid, very proscribed and most things you hear about it being better than the UK and behaviour being better is, in my experience albeit limited, of 3 schools here, are simply not true.  It is very much based on rote learning of lessons, dates, facts, etc, very light on the creative side, very poor in IT. It suits some children but others will find it very difficult. My son has several English friends who came to college straight from the UK and they are not doing very well at all, constantly bemoan how much better school is in the UK and how much they want to go back. French Universities are also very poor compared to UK and, indeed, other European standards.

You mentioned about giving your children a better future. Bear in mind that France has enormous unemployment, especially in the under 25 age range.  It is very difficult for French children to find work, never mind the non-French ones.  In some areas unemployment is a high as 60%.  People say 'but they'll be bilingual' which is true but I still think that, France being France, if it is a toss up between employing a French or UK national they'll go for the French every time. We have already resigned ourselves to the fact that our children will most probably return to the UK for university and are unlikely to ever work in France.

We have a gite that we rent out from time to time for extra money and I would say that the tourism industry in France is not something I would want to rely on. I used to work for an immobilier and my heart sank every time that someone came in and mentioned the word 'gites' or 'B&B's. I think the market is pretty much saturated already.

As someone who moved here with a family, I would say France is great for older people, great for retired people, but for families, I'm not convinced.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

 

 

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