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Moral harrassment on the work place


Frenchie
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I ve just read all those posts and first, let me thank you all for your very kind and interesting answers..

I will try and answer  all your questions..

Tonight at work, I ve noticed that someone who was very friendly to me desn't speak to me any longer, and I don't know why..

She even accused me of being a liar  .. [blink]

My friend and I have talked to the management quite a while ago, they just said we should not do or say anything, it would sort it out by itself, calm dfown.. But it doesn't.

And so much has been happening since the beginning of the week......

It s been bad for a while, but in the past maybe I didn't feel strong enough  , to react.. those bullies are good at persuading you that you are not interesting, etc.. and as soon as they notice someone gets on well with me, it s gossiping until the person is brainwashed ( what do they tell them???) , until the person ignores me !!

Now I ve decided enough is enough and I want something to happen to make things change.

I m very confused tonight, I need to chill down a bit, I will re read your posts with attention, lots of interesting stuff on here !!

and a bisou [kiss]!!

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[quote user="Frenchie"]

I ve just read all those posts and first, let me thank you all for your very kind and interesting answers..

My friend and I have talked to the management quite a while ago, they just said we should not do or say anything, it would sort it out by itself, calm down.. But it doesn't.

Now I ve decided enough is enough and I want something to happen to make things change.

[/quote]

So from what you've put Frenchie the time is right to approach management again, or....if you are brave enough.....face who you believe to be the ringleader.    Another approach is to face the weakest one first (if you know who they are) and hit them with the hard fact that EVERYONE involved will be accountable for their actions....then approach management.

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I did speak to the ringleader on monday, and a member of management was in the room.

I said I was VERY annoyed by the fact that once again I had not been told about a meeting etc.. She just said " don't protest, we ve done the job for you".. and she turned away...

You see? She managed to be " the victim " .

I went to the management offices, they say they re thinking about solutions.

I will go again on monday.

 

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[quote user="Frenchie"]

I did speak to the ringleader on monday, and a member of management was in the room.

I said I was VERY annoyed by the fact that once again I had not been told about a meeting etc.. She just said " don't protest, we ve done the job for you".. and she turned away...

You see? She managed to be " the victim " .

I went to the management offices, they say they re thinking about solutions.

I will go again on monday.

 

[/quote]

You MUST try and be one step ahead by pre-empting their smart answers.    To the above I would have replied "but may I register with you and management that I am here to do my work and I don't wish anyone to do it for me, not you, not anyone".....and added "please don't turn away when I am speaking".

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You are right, but when it happened, I didn't have time to think about the right thing to say.. It happened so quickly..

What really makes me mad is all the gossip I can't control..   

I ve learnt a few things today, believe me, I was gobsmacked!!

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It is very very difficult to work under such an atmosphere (speaking from experience).

You must continue to work to the best of your ability. If you feel mentally strong enough, try never to lose your temper with the ring-leader and put her on the spot when there are witnesses in the room, by asking her about anything about work you think you should know about.

Make a point of asking her without any antagonism, so that you are not seen to be aggressive or unpleasant.

If the attitude continues, just say that there seems to be a problem, that the lack of communication is detrimental to how effectiveley you can do your work and you must now seek help from her manager.

Once you say it, do it and do not back down, but always, always keep your calm and always be civil to them.

Be brave, be calm, be strong.

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[quote user="memb"][quote user="Frenchie"]

Indeed, nothign to do with sexual matters, just being put aside when decisions are taken, not being informed of meetings being held, gossiping, insults, etc..

The result ? being isolated with just one very good friend at work, and I feel so bad.

[/quote]

The situation is obviously affecting you otherwise you would'nt have posted, so you must do something about it. YES , very true    I was involved in workshops which addressed this type of situation before I came to France.     If you feel all the above is happening you must advise your superiors / management, advising them that they may not believe its happening,  RIGHT AGAIN but state you have felt it has been for some time, and as a way to take it forward and stop it from happening you intend to make a log of such situations and return to them in (say....one month - or whatever you feel is the right length of time), with the hope that the matter can be put right by them very quickly.       If management are good management this will be kept totally confidential.    Good Luck Frenchie.

[/quote]

Merci beaucoup..  It s good to feel understood...

 

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[quote user="Nice Cup of Tea"]

It is a recognised problem, and isn't committed just by insecure individuals, but sometimes by entire teams of co-workers.

There are many webpages devoted to it.  Here's one http://www.doctissimo.fr/html/psychologie/mag_2001/mag0112/ps_2809_harcelement_moral.htm

 

[/quote]  merci beaucoup for taking the time to post a link...
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[quote user="Geordie girl"]

frenchie, what a rotten situation to be in. Bullies are usually weak  and so choose even weaker people to be in their " gang " as they like to stay as "top dog ". They must live pretty boring lives if it makes them feel good by alienating you and your friend at work. Like Twinkle said they could be jealous of your lifestyle your career your everything. You`ll never know really until one of this  "gang " gets fed up and pulls away & spills the beans.  For this to happen seems science fiction to me !! But you never know....

Good luck

[/quote]  MERCI     [kiss]
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[quote user="Pads"]Frenchie , be brave and just go up to one of them on there own and ask them straight out , they will be very embrassed and hopfully wont do it again. but you may get an answer as to why ? it will probally be some thing silly , that some one thinks you have done or said , go for it gal !![kiss][/quote]

I'm thinking about it now.. Need to do it I think.

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[quote user="Meg "]Frenchie the 'bullies' only win if you let it get to you. It just feeds them. They may be able to make you feel rotten, but they can't take what is inside, your spirit.

Remember that they are the weak ones, that's why they behave that way. As Twinkle said its usually down to jealously, you make them feel inferior so they try and put you down or exclude you.

Good luck, stay strong and don't be afraid to stand up to them, try and identify/deal with the ringleader, the others normally only follow just so they aren't on the receiving end.
[/quote]

Thanks for your very supportive and interesting post...

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[quote user="memb"][quote user="Frenchie"]

I did speak to the ringleader on monday, and a member of management was in the room.

I said I was VERY annoyed by the fact that once again I had not been told about a meeting etc.. She just said " don't protest, we ve done the job for you".. and she turned away...

You see? She managed to be " the victim " .

I went to the management offices, they say they re thinking about solutions.

I will go again on monday.

 

[/quote]

You MUST try and be one step ahead by pre-empting their smart answers.    To the above I would have replied "but may I register with you and management that I am here to do my work and I don't wish anyone to do it for me, not you, not anyone".....and added "please don't turn away when I am speaking".

[/quote]   I will say this next time it happens. MERCI !!!
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[quote user="Rose"]Hi Frenchie... I've sent you  a PM... don't let them get you down... everything that has been said on here goes to show how much people care about you... and how many people want to help you... keep smiling!![/quote]

All those posts  got me emotional.. So supportive and friendly ...

MERCI A TOUTES ET TOUS [kiss]

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Frenchie, I'm so very sorry you are having these problems.  I don't feel able to give you any advice because I don't think I know what to say.  You have my moral support though, that goes without saying.

If I might be permitted just one comment, I'd say refuse to "play", do not be the victim.  Easier said than done, I know and it will mean a lot of hard work on many fronts; physical, mental, whatever it takes.

By refusing the role (that of being bullied) that your colleagues have assigned to you, you ensure that they never get the upper hand.  And you will amaze yourself by how well you can cope once you succeed in totally rejecting their psychological manipulations. 

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

Frenchie, I'm so very sorry you are having these problems.  I don't feel able to give you any advice because I don't think I know what to say.  You have my moral support though, that goes without saying.

If I might be permitted just one comment, I'd say refuse to "play", do not be the victim.  Easier said than done, I know and it will mean a lot of hard work on many fronts; physical, mental, whatever it takes.

By refusing the role (that of being bullied) that your colleagues have assigned to you, you ensure that they never get the upper hand.  And you will amaze yourself by how well you can cope once you succeed in totally rejecting their psychological manipulations. 

[/quote]    That sums it all .......

 

MERCI [kiss][kiss]

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Best wishes and love Frenchie.

I was bullied by a manager and some of the social work team I worked for. Mainly because I am a little bit different.

I ended up having a complete nervouse breakdown, six years ago. Thats why I came here because I had to get away.

Do what you think is best for you, but don't let the situation linger on. Bullies are ba*****ds. You are a wonderful person, bon courage,

blessings and support.

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Of course they are jealous of you, why else would they treat you like it?  Turn it around to a positive and be flattered by it.  Enjoy your pupils and let the bullies go to the meetings and take on the extra work.  More fool them [:D]

It will give you more time to visit Liverpool [:D][:D]

In the meantime you must be assertive and there has been some great replies to you on this thread so you can start to turn this around

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Mooking, Thanks for your touching message , and yours as well as Katie's are full of wisdom.

Yes, lots of things on the thread helped me think , I already feel more strength to tackle the pb on monday..

That s why I posted about what I had been hiding for    a while.. I thought you all could help.. and you did..

YOU are the wonderful ones..

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Frenchie, you are right to tackle this problem on Monday. But as you know it can be very emotional and often it can be difficult to think of the right words in a face to face meeting.

I think you should put your concerns in writing to your manager. That way you will be able to compose a logical argument, set out examples of the behaviour, possibly refer to any anti-bullying policies your employer has and very importantly have a record of your concerns.

My OH and I run a business and we would always take any such complaint very seriously. Lets hope you are treated like this too.

Good luck.

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I understand what you say greyman, but the management told me not to write things or make phone calls, that it is dangerous..

But I guess they meant to these women who harrass my friend and I ...

It s true that it is difficult to remember all the events and keep 100% factual and not emotional in front of the management .

I will think about it . Merci .

 

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Hi Frenchie,

I suspect your managers told you that for exactly the reason that I think you should do it - it is a definitive record of events at the time. They can deny verbal discussions ever happened but if you have written things down and given them dated letters then you have evidence should you need it in the future.

They are right about writing it down being dangerous - FOR THEM - if they don't treat you fairly and you make a claim against them !

Do what makes sense to you, not what they tell you.

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Oh Frenchie I do feel for you having been in a similar position myself.  I was very happy in the job I was doing having helped build the company up from 4 to 30 employees, I couldn't understand what and why things where happening, people who had previously been my friends ignoring me, unjustified complaints being made to the boss, derogatory remarks about my appearance being made just in my ear shot.  As a consequence I had a total nervous breakdown and because of the personal remarks made I suffered near agoraphobia for about 3 months, and even today, many years later, I am not the confidant person I was before.

You have a lovely TRUE friend and I think it would probably be better if both of you speak to the principal about the situation together, I think it will give you more confidence to have someone with you that you know is suffering as well.

Good Luck, I will be thinking about you on Monday.

 

 

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First of all, my deepest sympathy with what you are going through. I'd like to offer the following practical advice - I studied the French employment tribunal system as part of my UK law degree and was helpfully advised by a number of French lawyers in this area.

1. "Harcèlement morale" is well recognised under French law and has recently been highlighted in a number of cases involving a large computer company and one of the care manufacturers where some employees were driven to suicide.  All working in new concrete and glass offices in seemingly ideal conditions. In serious cases involving for example damage to your health or your having to leave the job as a result of the pressures (known as constructive dismissal, as in English law), high damages are awarded.

2. If your company is large enough, first approaches could include the personnel department, the "comité d'entreprise", your union affiliated to the CGT, and/or the "work doctor". Confrontations with line managers are rarely helpful when they are part of the problem.  

3. As advised already, you must document everying. One of the lawyers advising me offered these words of wisdom "In a typical French court it is a dossier that is on trial not a person". A case will stand or fall on the quality of the (written) evidence.

4. I would seek early advice from an "avocat" specialising in employment law. He/she will advise you how to conduct yourself at each stage and will eventually represent you in the "conseil de prud'hommes" which is the equivalent of the English employment tribunal. You can present your own case as in Britain but invariably a French "avocat" is used, as you can be up against highly skilled company lawyers acting for the employer.

5. Once your case is started in the "conseil de prud'hommes"  there is a procedure for "conciliation", which however is rarely used and most cases go to trial. The panel of (usually four) judges are elected lay people drawn from both employer and employee backgrounds. According to my French colleagues, most cases are won by the employee - and employers know this. As a result, even taking the first steps can sometimes lead to a resolution of the problem or at least your being taken seriously.

I do hope this info may be of help to you.

P-D de Rouffignac

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