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Cost of Living for familes in France?


blackcat
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[quote user="ErnieY"]You need to check very carefully if your child benefit will continue in France, my understanding is that it will not. This from the HMRC web site:

If you're going abroad permanently, or expect to be away for more than 52 weeks, you won't qualify for Child Benefit unless both of the following apply:

  • you are moving to an EEA country or Switzerland

  • you are paying UK NICs or receiving a UK National Insurance-related benefit

Also you should note that you cannot legitimately sell your signs or whatever without being registered as a business. France is not like the UK where you can just wake up one morning and decide to start a business selling sell say CD's or car parts or WHY from your spare bedroom [blink]


[/quote]

 

It wont but a French friend has made enquries and I would get the french equivilent.

And as I said, it would be my mums business and she would just donate all the proceeds...

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[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="La Sizer"]

Well funny you should mention that but its all registered in my mums name and will remain that way, she will kindly send some money over every month to help out...

[/quote]Which of course you will declare and pay tax on.

[/quote]

If required yes, but If my mu decides to randomly send me money as a gift, is that taxable??

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Yes, is the short answer.

I know this sounds harsh, but if you have to go to these lengths to avoid paying what the French would require you to pay, then you shouldn't be doing it and if that money is key, then perhaps you need a re think.

In addition unemployent is a real problem in some area's - if someone sees you living above your visible means you are quite likely to be reported -

To be honest I think this will happen more and more in the Uk too, it's a symptom of 'hard times'

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Doubtless others who have children here will be able to tell you the details but AFAIK you will not get child benefit in France unless you are working for, or have worked for, a French employer. I don't think you get it just because you turn up in France with kids - or maybe do you ?

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[quote user="La Sizer"]

This is a breakdown I was given :

Habitation tax           300pa

Taxe Fonciere          300pa

Car Ins                   300pa

Water/Electric/Gaz    100pm

Broadband/Phone     40pm

Muttelle                   150pm

Shopping                 350pm

Sky TV                    ????

These are the main figures Im interested in, I know theres things like petrol, clothes etc.. but Im talking usual living.

This is based on St Ybard, not far from limoge.

Please feel free to edit, add, fiddle to make it realistic.

[/quote]

Can I assume that as a family of 7 that includes 5 children of school age?

You will need to budget for school costs too.  In september "à la rentrée" you can count on spending a very tidy sum on school materials that you have to provide (exercise books, covers for, pens, pencils - there is a comprehensive list provided by the schools) especially at secondary school (collège) this could easily be €150+ per child, even if you bought the cheapest available.  Then there's the school cantine to pay for as it's either cantine or home for lunch; no packed lunches permitted (@ €35+ per child per month), transport to school which could be some distance away (fuel for your car or school bus). Afterschool garderie (crêche) costs if you need to put your child into the after school club due to your working hours, here that is €44 per month for 3 children.  You are looking at several thousand euros per year to add to your budget.

Having just read through your posts and the replies, I can't see how you can do it.  You will be receiving "random" payments from your mum as "un-earned income", so unless you actually manage to find a job (unrealistic) you will not be declaring an "earned income".  As a family of 7 I think the authorities would be looking very carefully into your situation wondering how you are managing to exist with no income.

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[quote user="Lisleoise"] As a family of 7 I think the authorities would be looking very carefully into your situation wondering how you are managing to exist with no income.


[/quote]

Given the recent changes to the health and immigration rules in France, I doubt that a family of 7 with no visible means of support would be allowed to settle here in the first place.

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/newcomers/new_health_and_imm_rules.htm

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I might be wrong,(no doubt someone will tell me if I am), but the new regs are that you have to register at the Mairie when you arrive, and prove that you have sufficient income to avoid being a liability on the french state. Will you be able to do that?

 

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The new mairie registration system is not yet in force but the resource and heathcare requirements are.

If after three months, the OP has not obtained employment, then to maintain legal residency here, he must have sufficient other income to meet the minimum resource level for foreign 'inactives'.  For a couple with seven children, this is 1,840€ per month - 22,080€ per annum.

In terms of healthcare, he should check whether his previous UK NI contributions qualify him for an E106.  If they don't, then he would be faced with having to purchase private healthcare for his family for the next five years.....

 

 

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A final post from me.

I may be wrong but my understanding is that it's a family of 7 rather than 7 kids. If correct then this would bring the minimum resource level down a bit and closer to the €20,000 I earlier suggested, not bad for a rough estimate [Www]

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Well spotted, Ernie....[;-)]

The figures quoted above relate to the French social security welfare rates (revenu minimum d'insertion) which is a guaranteed minimum income sufficient to live on.  That's arguably a better guide as to the basic cost of living here, although one needs to take into account that people on RMI also do not pay tax d'habitation, heathcare contributions, get free mutuelles, and so on....

 

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[quote]
Can I assume that as a family of 7 that includes 5 children of school age?
[/quote]

Thats correct

[quote]
You will need to budget for school costs too.  In september "à la rentrée" you can count on spending a very tidy sum on school materials that you have to provide (exercise books, covers for, pens, pencils - there is a comprehensive list provided by the schools) especially at secondary school (collège) this could easily be €150+ per child, even if you bought the cheapest available.  Then there's the school cantine to pay for as it's either cantine or home for lunch; no packed lunches permitted (@ €35+ per child per month), transport to school which could be some distance away (fuel for your car or school bus). Afterschool garderie (crêche) costs if you need to put your child into the after school club due to your working hours, here that is €44 per month for 3 children.  You are looking at several thousand euros per year to add to your budget.
[/quote]

Yes, thanks for that I hadnt really found out about the costs of schools so thats a good bit of info to know...

[quote]
Having just read through your posts and the replies, I can't see how you can do it.  You will be receiving "random" payments from your mum as "un-earned income", so unless you actually manage to find a job (unrealistic) you will not be declaring an "earned income".  As a family of 7 I think the authorities would be looking very carefully into your situation wondering how you are managing to exist with no income.
[/quote]

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt want to continue doing that, and do want a job, I think I may have given the impression that Im not bothered but yes, definately want a job (hey who wouldnt want a break from 5 kids...lol) Im looking into how desired Plumbers are and its looking quite positive as long as I can speak french and understand the terminology well. I dont have any intentions of moving over without a job to go to. Having said that I like to look at all scenarios, such as getting a job then being made redundant a year later etc.. in which case I would have my stickers to fall back on as a tide me over job.

Thats basically why I am trying to find out what I need to live on, to make sure I can afford to do it with a job and should anything bad happen Id also be able to manage until new employment was found. I would have an amount of savings to use but I just want to make sure I cover every situation and every thing is as clear and accurate as possible before I take such a big step.

 

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[quote user="Patf"]

I might be wrong,(no doubt someone will tell me if I am), but the new regs are that you have to register at the Mairie when you arrive, and prove that you have sufficient income to avoid being a liability on the french state. Will you be able to do that?

[/quote]

That is the plan, yes...I dont plan on coming over to France with 2 adults, 5 kids and not earning any money!

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

The new mairie registration system is not yet in force but the resource and heathcare requirements are.

If after three months, the OP has not obtained employment, then to maintain legal residency here, he must have sufficient other income to meet the minimum resource level for foreign 'inactives'.  For a couple with seven children, this is 1,840€ per month - 22,080€ per annum.

In terms of healthcare, he should check whether his previous UK NI contributions qualify him for an E106.  If they don't, then he would be faced with having to purchase private healthcare for his family for the next five years.....

[/quote]

 

What is it for a couple and 5 children, I dont have seven, if i did I think Id be moving to a mental institute not another country!

You mention E106, my contributions here are fine so does that mean Id get free healthcare for 5 years?? If so thats something I can take off my budgeting....

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Quite the opposite, unfortunately. An E106 entitles you to having your healthcare costs reimbursed by the UK for the first couple of years max (or is it less? Dunno) after which you will have to pay for it yourself until you have been resident in France for 5 years in total (and you would need to prove that, by filling in a tax return each year). However, even the E106 doesn't entitle you to 100% reimbursement, so you will still need to factor in some additional insurance cover for the E106 period.

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To obtain an E106,

you have to have made a certain level of national insurance

contributions in the two years prior to leaving the country.

If, for instance you have paid for 25 years but have not paid in the last 2 years, you will not be entitled to an E106 cover and you and you will need private health cover for your family.

Because of the way their contributions are allocated, self-employed people (if up-to-date with their NI contributions) usually get a shorter E106 cover.

Check with the DWP for your eligibility for an E106.

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[quote user="La Sizer"]

 but I just want to make sure I cover every situation and every thing is as clear and accurate as possible before I take such a big step.

[/quote]

Totally impossible to do. You will therefore need to factor in something for the bits that come along and bite you when you least expect them.

For instance there has been an approximate decline in the £/€ rate of let's say 17% in the last 15 months. Many people said they'd always worked on a possible decline of, say, 10% but then the 17% rears it's head.

You have to build in some slack to accommodate the unknowns that will, without doubt, occur.

Best of luck.

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[quote user="Clair"]To obtain an E106,

you have to have made a certain level of national insurance

contributions in the two years prior to leaving the country.[/quote]A correction if you'll permit me Clair.

It's 2 FULL tax years of NI contributions within the previous 3, a seemingly small but potentially crucial point.

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OK, so all in all E20k per annum, would allow for some unforseens issues aswell as living. (approx.!)

Thanks for the info people, I do appreciate it, the last thing I want to do is move then have to come back so Id rather get as much right as possible to improve my chances of a successful move.

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Potentially, but honestly, you're the only one who can answer the question realistically. You, or someone else who has lived the experience with 5 school-age children. The rest of us (I suspect, but I stand willing to be corrected) wouldn't have a clue what it costs to comfortably run a household of that size, nor of many of the necessary contingencies which might need to be factored in.

We're all very different animals also, when it comes to levels of "security" and "comfort". So, bills and overheads will vary enormously. Can you, as a family, live reasonably well on £20K a year in the UK?

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http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1367959/ShowPost.aspx

You might also find the above of interest.  Although it discusses retirement for 2 people, some of posts about the cost of things will also apply to you.

It's good to know you are doing some research.  As has already been said by others, factor in margins for all sorts of contingencies; to do with the children or to do with house repair and maintenance (costs are high for these).

It's often a stressful time, moving house, nevermind moving countries and the last thing you want are money worries in addition.

Children too can sense when things aren't right or when mum and dad are worried and preoccupied.  Therefore, for the sake of the happiness of all your family, be very sure about why you want to come to live and work in France and, if the motivation and reasons are there, then you'll stand a better chance of succeeding when things don't go the way you'd planned.

I don't want to dampen your project, however, and, if you do decide to go ahead, I wish you all the best.

 

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