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Piano Teaching - Autoentreprenuer or CESU?


RB
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I am a fully qualified piano teacher with over 25 years experience of teaching beginners to diploma level and I am hoping to move to the area around Lacapelle-Biron in the near future. I would like to continue my teaching at perhaps 10 hours/week and would like to know which is the best way to go about it. Which is most advantageous for a such a small turnover, the AE or CESU? Also, would I be able to do this in my own home or must I travel to students homes? Finally, is there much of a market for my services? I can speak French well enough to teach. Thanks, R

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I can't advise on the business side, but suggest you could start to check out the market by looking in the Pages Jaunes for your department under "Musique et chante (leçons)."

You might find that there are several music schools around, which include piano lessons.

You can access the pages jaunes online via Google.

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[quote user="RB"]

I am a fully qualified piano teacher with over 25 years experience of teaching beginners to diploma level and I am hoping to move to the area around Lacapelle-Biron in the near future. I would like to continue my teaching at perhaps 10 hours/week and would like to know which is the best way to go about it. Which is most advantageous for a such a small turnover, the AE or CESU? Also, would I be able to do this in my own home or must I travel to students homes? Finally, is there much of a market for my services? I can speak French well enough to teach. Thanks, R

[/quote]

I did this for some years at the beginning of my time in France.

I was paid for home teaching by the Chèque Emploi system, and even have some points from that period on my Pension.

It partly depends on if you are relying on this work to get you into the Social Security system.

10 hours a week on CESU won't do it.

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When you say you were paid for home teaching, is this refering to the student's home or your own, i.e. does the CESU system only work if you work in your 'employers' home? Also, hadn't thought yet about the social security system, but how many hours are required with the CESU to enter the system?Thank you very much for your info and for Patf s'too. I have looked at an online teachers' site and they were being paid CESU, hence the original question, since I had previously thought that the AE sys. would work best. Thanks again, R

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I visited the homes of the pupils.

I think the system in intended for help at the employer's home, such as house work, but can be extended to coaching children.

Interestingly there was a demand for Piano lessons both in English and in French, and I gave both.

I believe from memory that you need to do 60 hours a month under the CESU for a minimum period (6 months?)

There is no minimum number of hours under the AE scheme at the moment, which is why a number of early-retired people use it as a way to get into the health system.

The CESU has been going much longer, which may be why most teachers are on it.  In any case most French people will already have 'cartes vitales' and so do not have the same immediate need for a way in. I was already in the system because of other work I had been doing.

It was at the time the only way to be paid legally for small jobs, as at that period the AE scheme didn't exist.

The other thing to remember is that under the CESU the employer has to pay social charges on top of the payments made to you ,and they need a special cheque book. They receive the bill for the charges later.

Under the AE you pay your own charges out of the payments made to you.

You might consider contacting the local Foyer Rural in

Foyer rural des Jeunes (Comité des Fêtes)

Présidente : Chantal BOYER-LAMBERT

Rue Joseph Kessel

47150 LACAPELLE-BIRON

Téléphone : 05 53 75 11 25

or

Association des Parents d’Élèves de l’école de Lacapelle-Biron

Président : M. David DENTON

Ecole de Lacapelle-Biron

47150 LACAPELLE-BIRON

Téléphone : 05 53 40 85 18

To see if there is any interest in what you have to offer.

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Thank you very much indeed NormanH. You have confirmed what I had orginally thought, that the better route to employment these days would be via AE and so much other info as well about the schools and Fetes. I am coming out next summer and will make contact with the people you have mentioned and perhaps meet them then. You're a star! R
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  • 3 weeks later...
Hi,

Having been employed by the education dept for the last three years, this year I am teaching privately. I started by using CESU as it has advantages for the parents regarding tax deductions. However, it is 'officially' for working at their home. I am about to start small groups at my home which will not be covered under this scheme. I am thinking of registering as AE and therefore will be able to offer both methods of payment.
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Lollie, you may want to get better informed about the possibilities of CESU and AE.

As an AE, you cannot be paid by CESU. This is because under CESU you are being employed by someone i.e you are (very!) temporarily getting a salary from them and they are paying all your social charges, as as employer.

If you are an AE, you are then self employed and must invoice your clients and receive their payments as a business. Then you declare you earnings and pay your own social charges.

You can be an AE and get paid under CESU as a non professional and declare it accordingly but it is not as part of your business. It can and does get more complicated.

Some more info here:

http://aide-creation-entreprise.info/Auto-entrepreneur-cheque-emploi

Danny

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Perhaps I didnt write it very clear. When I am working in their home I will be employed by them and will receive payment under CESU> When I have group lessons at home that will be my business under the AE scheme. As far as I am aware there is no reason not to do this, however I have a meeting this week with the guy who is responsible for promoting AE in this area so I will clarify with him.
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Lollie, Lovely to hear from someone who is currently teaching. Would love to hear about how you built up your practice and how long you have been doing this in France? Are most of your students French or English?

Also, from your experience, what would you suggest as an appropriate hourly rate for teaching in my own home in the Lot et Garonne? As I said in my first posting, I have a lot of experience and teach all levels. I am a univ. graduate (maths not music), but have a Licentiate with the Royal Schools of Music in both performance and teaching, as well as Associate Diplomas in performance and teaching with ABRSM and the London College of Music.

On a further note, I belong to several piano circles here in Surrey where adult students and teachers get together, some monthly, others bi-monthly to perform for one another. Do you belong to a group like that or have you heard of people doing that? It's a great way of keep students focused and keep oneself motiviated and on your toes...or should I say fingers. Also great for people who play and aren't having lessons, but like the stimulus of meeting other like minded pianists.

Very keen to hear about your discussion with the AE man too. Thank you very much!

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Hello RB

Sorry I can't help with the business side of things but I hope the following might be useful.

Before you start teaching music to the French, it might be an idea (forgive me if you're already au fait with all this) to buy a dictionary of French musical terms/ solfège etc.  Donkey's years ago I gained an English degree in music, with singing as my speciality so I was thrilled to discover a choir in a nearby town when I moved to France and rather naively thought it would be a doddle.  Reading the notes was no problem but I was completely unprepared for talking in solfège and not C,D, E etc.  Also the terms for notation, flats, sharps etc all took some getting used to.  Anyone with musical ability will be welcomed with open arms but they will simply assume you can instantly converse in French musical language. Forewarned is forearmed!

Bon courage - I hope it all works out for you.  I now take the odd (and I do mean odd!!) choir practice when the choirmaster is away and I still struggle with some of the less well known terms but between us we get by and have a lot of fun.

Janet

 

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  • 1 month later...
Hi RB

I am attending a one day course for setting up as an AE next week, will email you afterwards. If you have any questions I can raise them next week ?

I used posters in shops initially to set up and its going well. December was quiet but I am hoping to see an increase after January.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi

I attended my course last Friday. It was actually a session for creating an enterprise, so it was a mixed bag of people, AE, new start ups and people taking over existing business. As I expected here in France, the formator did all the talking and few questions were asked! In fact he started with, directed at me, I dont speak English so he you struggle to understand feel free to leave at any time!!!. Then he told us that we should all respect each others ideas and not ridicule anyone, but when he asked someone ideally when they wanted to be up and running and they answered tomorrow, he ridiculed them, he told us to be served coffee at the the break was a revolution at the pole-emploi and how lucky we were, and finally towards the end he said he recognised we would probably all be tired now after listening to him but we should think about how tiring it is for him standing in front of us and talking for 4 hours!!!!! I did get some useful information from it, and I will go ahead, I can get one to one help from my pole emploi conseillor and financial aide is available, basically you can choose if you want to take your chommage in a lump sum or not, thats for those on chommage, as was the case at this session. Here is a very useful website that he went through.

www.acpe.com from here you can get links to other useful sites to help you along the process. He did warn us at the end, about the company that contacts you after set up offering to put you in various directorys for a one off fee, this is a scam.

Si I will continue with my work through CESU and set up as an AE for work outside of the CESU rules.
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  • 2 months later...

Dear Deb,

I still live in the UK and had been enquiring about setting up a business when we move to the Lot et Garonne area in 2012, so can't recommend anyone, but can make some suggestions. Perhaps ask for a recommendation in the education section of the forum or go you your local mairie, as they seem to have a weath of info or google 'professeur du piano' in your region's yellow pages. Another idea is to go to your local school and ask the school secretary if they have anyone they can recommend or know of student's who receive tuition.  If there is a local choir you can make enquires there or a local church, especially the evangelique, who tend to be more interactive with the community. Also, many areas appear to have quite active musical groups.There must be someone out there for you.

Are you a beginner or advanced student wishing to move on with studies? What ever your level of experience, do take the time to quiz the teacher about their qualifications, experience, knowlege of solfège (music theory), what level and ages of students they teach. Don't be afraid to be proactive and ask them questions. You are effectively conducting a job interview.

Wishing you all the best, RB

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I am sorry RB, but you have just made me smile!! A school secretary??? in France?? If you did find one, maybe in a Lycee, then it would not be in her/his job description to advise on piano teachers. You are lucky to get to speak to someone about your own child!!

Try your local newspaper or Le Bon Coin online.
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[quote user="NormanH"]I visited the homes of the pupils.
...under the CESU the employer has to pay social charges on top of the payments made to you ,and they need a special cheque book....[/quote]

I have recently started paying a gardener via CESU, but you don't need the chequebook any more;  I do everything online via the CESU website.   I enter on it how much I have paid the gardener for the month, and then the CESU deduct their charges from my bank account.   Very 21st century!

Angela

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