Jump to content

Are postage and packing charges 'turnover' under the AE scheme?


Daft Doctor
 Share

Recommended Posts

My wife has a successful ebay shop which she runs in the UK, and she has customers from all over Europe (and some from further afield). We are emigrating to France next year and my wife wants to continue her business, transfer the ebay shop to ebay.fr, and register as an Autoentrpreneur. The turnover would be well under the 80,000 euros limit for the AE scheme, and reading the english translation of the documentation from the AE website an ebay shop certainly fits the criteria.

I know that there are fixed cotisations of 8% of turnover to pay (quarterly if desired), but I wondered what elements would constitute turnover? My wife receives payment for the goods then levies an additional modest charge for postage and packing (never more than it actually costs). In the AE scheme would the postage and packing element of any sale count towards turnover or can it be deducted from total income received? We are just trying to work out feasibility/costs, so how much we might pay in cotisations is of interest to us. I just wondered if anyone out there is running a mail order business under AE and could enlighten me. Many thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the post and packing cannot be deducted from turnover.

If she has a good customer base, it may be easier just to keep the eBayUk account going, rather than register on eBay.fr and have to start from scratch on feedback ratings.

Also, on eBay.fr customers do not expect to pay for any packaging, they will normally only pay the actual Colissimo charge for the weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Tinabee, sound like you have experience of this. If she kept her ebayUK shop she would have to post from France so charges to UK customers would rise slightly, postal charges might put a lot off, as might the sl extended delivery times. Out of interest, if she did keep the UK shop on, would that income be taxed in the UK or in France? Or could she still register under AE? Any thoughts most welcome.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tinabee is right that all money you receive from customers is counted as turnover, and hence used in calculating your cotisations.

I don't know where you got the 8% figure from. Standard cotisations for a 'commercial' AE are 12% of turnover, plus 1% (IIRC) if you want to take the option to pay tax at the same time.

Regardless of where the web presence is based she would be doing the work in France. This means that she is liable for tax & cotisations in France.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daft Doctor, I was reading an EU comparative the other day showing that for higher, average and lower income earners, whilst the UK now had the fifth highest tax and social security contribution rates in Europe, France was still worse at number three, because of the higher social security costs and on an annual income of £10,000 you you would end up with around 6-7% less net income than the UK.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe ebay will let you continue your UK account if/when you move to France. My account was changed with no notification when ebay separated its European operation, and shortly afterwards my UK credit cards were removed from Paypal, again with no warning.

I'm sure there are people here who can tell you how to avoid this by using a proxy server in UK, but as pointed out, you will be posting merchandise from France, which could be a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did sell quite a few things on eBay when I first came over to France some years ago as I wanted to clear some old clutter. I'm afraid I don't know the latest rules on eBay accounts.

Do check out the postal costs though - there is no second class parcel post for international parcels any more in France, and other methods can work out quite expensive. If you want to be able to track a parcel you are stuck with Colissimo - not cheap! There was a tariff called Marchandise economique available for a while, but I think this has now gone as well.

Unfortunately, La Poste appear to be doing something with their website at the moment (prices are due to rise on 1st July I think) and the international tariff pages are not accessible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fisherman,

Yes, you are right. Absolutely nothing is deductible under AE because the cotisations have already got an allowance built in. The cotisations on a 'commercial' AE are reduced to 12%, compared with about 24% for a service-based one and about 45% of profits for a réel regime business. This allows for a certain amount being spent on stock.

If you have low costs and a healthy markup then AE is a good route -- say for someone selling home made wooden toys at the local market.

For a business where you buy in products and re-sell then the margins are likely to be too small to cover your costs. It should be easy enough to calculate for any given business whether AE works or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="nomoss"]I don't believe ebay will let you continue your UK account if/when you move to France.[/quote]I have both UK and French eBay A/C's and for the UK one I have a UK registered card. I have no problems using either A/C and can even use Paypal and my UK card to pay on eBay.fr, addresses can be a bit of a problem but I always email separately confirming where I want items delivered to.

No proxy servers or any such chicanery [;-)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As it happens, my wife's ebay shop sells mainly low cost, low weight items, averaging 20-30 sales per day.  The profit margin is roughly 60%.  Most of the dispatches are in small padded envelopes and postal costs from the UK are low.  She now makes a decent profit, and it still may well be transferrable to France as she gets loads of repeat business, some from mainland Europe.  She is going to check with ebay about the feasibility, including whether she could transfer any of her (excellent) feedback and seller ratings if she moved everything lock stock and barrel to ebay.fr.  If not, as we will continue to have the same paypal account, UK bank and UK card accounts it might be possible and indeed better to keep the operation on ebay UK, just dispatch from France (if the UK customers will wear it).  Question is, if she is resident in France but running her shop on ebayUK, could she still register under the AE scheme?   
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Howdy. If your wife is resident in France and selling on UK, then yes, she can and must register her business in France, and pay her taxes in France, and the AE scheme will no doubt be the best for her.

Paypal changed me over to Paypal.fr but you can have an eBay account in whatever country you like. I've had ones for the UK and USA whilst living in France.

If you can make a tidy profit the AE scheme is very nice, but for others it can be a harsh system. Also be careful at the post office, as they like to try and fob you off with their more expensive services.

I moved address and went to my most local post office today for the first time (5km from home) in a small village. Nobody else was there and the lady looked bored. I told her I had a document in a tube already stamped with the price for lettre prioritaire. She very slowly decided to weigh it, check the prices, and said I was 20 cents short for an eco packet. I said, no it was a priority letter. She looked a bit confused, so I pulled out a load of printed matter from La Poste website, showing pictures of tubes, the stated dimensions allowed, and the fact that it can fall under letter post. She looked mistrustful still, so I showed her the price list from La Poste, and that it was marked as a service from the Postale Universelle, then pulled out the paperwork and terms and conditions for the Postale Universelle (which La Poste conforms to) for international items. She spent ages peering at it. I tried to explain I had a carte pro, and had been sending this way for three years. She eventually (although seemingly a bit reluctant) stamped it and sent it on as letter post.

Do look up French postage and your rights, and costs. You could find it costs a good deal more than UK prices, and the post offices are as accomodating as Royal Mail.

Also be wary about eBay and their DSR ratings, because not everybody appreciates you are in France, and if the post is slow, they'll rate dispatch as shipping - a few too many of those in the year, and eBay will ban you indefinitely. Not a nice environment in which to sell, which is a shame because it can bring in a lot of new customers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...