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AE: I owe RSI 28 000 €


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Welcome to France. [:D]

As Wooly said you can understand why working on the black is so common. I also discovered a while back that 'getting one over' the system is a national sport and that 'functionaires' (hope I spelt it right) are one of the most hated groups in France. But then it's France, that's how it is and none of us are going to change it that's for sure so you simply just get on with it. I am very sorry for Clair and I am sure it will finally get sorted out after of course the sleepless nights and stress something like this causes. Having said that I have had worse, seen worse and heard of worse but that of course is no comfort to anyone to whom it is happening at the present.

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Another week has gone by. No action on my part. Still waiting for some sort of contact confirming I owe nothing to anybody.

Today, I received 13 letters from the RSI.

12 of those are entitled "Quarterly Turnover Declaration" and go from the first quarter of 2009 to the last quarter of 2011. They show the correct amounts I declared on the AE website for the relevant quarter for each year.

The last letter informs me that "as per the previous letter" (? [blink]), because there have been 8 consecutive quarters with zero income declared (again [blink]), my AE registration has been closed/crossed off/cancelled, whatever, as of 31/12/2011.

WTF??? [blink]

I cannot get through to anyone on the phones and nobody at the mairie in town can give me a contact number for the RSI representative who comes over once a month.

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Clair, I am absolutely appalled [+o(]

I can't remember when I last came on the Forum but I just have to break silence to empathise with you in your plight.

And there I was pouring all the scorn I could muster at the UK IR who want me to fill in a tax declaration when I have been here 5 years and have done everything needed to be French tax resident.....

In this department at least, the French can beat the Brits hands down.

All good wishes for resolving this load of m***e ! 

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Clair, so so sorry that you have had more nonsense.

I thought that 'they' had us sorted out, but no, new letter came, the CPAM now want a copy of the E121 the CNAV gave us. Couldn't they have sent them one? I am so fed up with these imbeciles. And we still don't know when they are going to want the money back from the over payments they have now been making for15 months. And when I called, the person said, 'will we want it back?'. I was not pleasant and said unless they had become Le Pere Noel, then yes, they would.


ps Clair, I had to look WTF up!

How these things push people to the limits nez pah!

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[quote user="Clair"]

Today, I received 13 letters from the RSI.

WTF??? [blink]



If only it was due to somebody's warped sense of humour over there. Then it could be OK. Just. It is so beyond outrageous.

I think this is getting to the point where you need your own TV show, Clair, nothing less. It's got so ridiculous that somebody somewhere, a human, HAS to notice something is amiss.

I really don't even know what to say anymore - unfortunately, sympathy might not be helping you much at this stage.[:'(][kiss]


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There are days when I reckon France could do worse than import Anne Robinson.  How dare they?  As if life doesn't throw enough c**p at you to begin with.  WTF is right.  If this were an isolated incident it would be bad enough but sadly not.  I get the distinct impression that RSI are the experts at this.  And in France, that's saying something (sorry, Clair!)
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[quote user="5-element"]I really don't even know what to say anymore[:'(][/quote]

Welcome to the club! [:D]

This is just so ludicrous it makes me laugh (and cry, almost!)

On the positive side, none of the quarterly statements/declarations (all dated the same day, BTW) show any outstanding amount owed. Does it mean they have rectified the "error in classification"?

On the negative side, it would appear I cannot take any money for the gite any more. I know I stated I was going to shut down the business until this was resolved, but the current situation, in which I find myself without any business status, is not MY choice.

Some computer somewhere has issued 12 statements on the same day, and if 8 of them show zero income, as per the AE rules and regulations, the business is shut down.

I don't want to tie myself up in knots trying to get to the bottom of this. It is beyond my understanding.

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Clair there is only one thing to do which is to go to the regional head office and see them. I recommend going early when they open. Take everything with you and sit there until you get it sorted. I estimate we have done the 120km round trip to our regional office at least 6 times a year in the life cycle of our business. It is the only way.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Local offices are useless here too, we always ring the regional office that covers the four depts and they usually know what is happening, yet the local office some 70kms away hasn't a clue or cannot be bothered to help. I'm still getting letters addressed to my husband, might take them down to the cemetary like the lady in the north did or rather give that address to them to send correspondence there instead of her home!
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[quote user="5-element"]Any further developments Clair??[/quote]

I've just returned from a meeting with the RSI representative, who comes to town once a month. I got there 45mn early, and there were 3 people waiting...

Thank goodness for my iPod and Woman's Hour podcasts!

Very pleasant, amiable and patient woman (I imagine she has the patience of Job to do a job where she has to face people all day long...)

I'll try to explain it as I understand it:

The RSI exists in a parallel world, which recognises I have paid contributions from 2009 to 2011, but does not know why, or where to apply them, because as far as the RSI are concerned, I have never, ever declared any turnover in 3 years.

As a consequence of the missing declarations of turnover, and in accordance with the AE rule, which states that after 8 nil or undeclared quarters, the business ceases to exist, my AE business has been closed/stricken off/de-registered and no longer exists.

It seems that to clear the problem, I have to (re-)declare the turnover for all the missing quarters, using the forms I received earlier this month (the 12 letters I mentioned in an earlier post -actually, 13 now, as I have received a new one for Q1-2012).

Once the turnover declarations are entered in my RSI computer-file, the de-registration of the business should (SHOULD [blink]) be cancelled.

I asked her where I should list the income tax, as the form does not

include a field for that, and she seemed a bit puzzled (as was I![8-)])

(For those who are not familiar with this, an AE business owner has the option to pay a low fix % of income tax on the business income, at the same time as he/she pays his/her contributions, rather than having to declare the income on the annual income declaration.

"One declaration. One payment" was the slogan.

The tax option is offered on the screen when I declare online, but not on the forms I have been asked to complete, which means I may end up paying a higher amount of income tax.)

The advice the RSI rep gave me is to use paper forms rather than declare online. She said I have a "cast-iron" case (dossier en béton!) and acknowledged the problems the RSI are having, but added that she could see "the light at the end of the tunnel".

I replied I felt I was still lost in the maze, without a clue on how to get out.

She also said I should not try to use logic when dealing with the problem!

She encouraged me to keep taking bookings, but I told her I would not take in a cent until I was certain the problem was resolved.

She was suitably appalled when I described the comment about having to wait a "year or longer", as per the tel conversation I had with the disinterested RSI employee a month ago.

I have her business card and she reminded me she was available face-to-face once a month.

Soooooo... My next steps:

I'll do what she advises, keep a copy of everything, and keep my fingers crossed.

I might also go to church and light a candle, just in case![:D]

I'll update if or when I get some news.

I can't imagine having to jump through these hoops in a foreign language... [:'(]

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Core! Thanks for the update. I am not sure I follow it all (who would?), the advice of not using logic seems a good one, and then you mention church and candles. I think the One-Hundred Syllable Mantra, repeated 10,000 times, might be "de rigueur" here.

Given the complexity and the absurdity of it all, perhaps the question of language hardly comes into it. I can see how some people might end up just packing their car and leaving for an unknown destination.

It does sound as if there is a possibility of resolution though, even if it means that a bureaucrat, somewhere, starts crossing off some items on a list, or creates an entry somwehere, just plucked out of thin air. I have seen it happen, seems to be a favoured way to solve problems - a little bit of creative lateral thinking - some fonctionnaires are quite good at it.


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[quote user="5-element"]I can see how some people might end up just packing their car and leaving for an unknown destination.[/quote]

I can see why some people might prefer a cash-only option... [Www]

This whole case is a study in contradictions:

It's all computerised, but there's no logic.

I declare, but there's no declaration.

They receive (and keep!) payments, but don't assign them.

I am registered, but I don't exist.

A candle and a special mass, maybe? [:P]

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Claire, after all these years of paying in, they suddenly said OH never existed here in France, yet they were fast enough to send him bills,threats and god knows what else and we have the original certificate of adhesion to the URSSAF which preceeded the RSI. Now, they still send bills addressed to him and they have had his death certificate since November and acknowledged it - honestly there is no word to describe them or their methods! All this seems to have happened since they reverted to being RSI and I feel half the records were deleted either deliberately or accidentally and they are covering their tracks.
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Val, the person I met today acknowledged the problems and said a lot of people were put in place with minimal training when the URSSAF and RSI were merged to create the existing body.

It's not difficult to imagine how an army of idle pen-pushers in cushy jobs suddenly found themselves at a loss when expected to produce actual work!

People like me and you, and EmilyA, and countless others, are wasting hours of our time defending ourselves and justifying every bit of paper, in trying to right the wrongs caused by their incompetence [:@]

I cannot imagine what you must go through, having to discuss your loss over and over again, because of their ineptitude... [:'(]

And as usual, no-one takes responsibility and no-one is answerable.

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I love many things about France, and I chose to come and live here, but if any one aspect of French life makes me despair it is that phrase "as usual, no-one takes responsibility and no-one is answerable."

Although I am far from a supporter of most of Sarkozy's policies I hoped that when he was elected in 2007 there might be some movement in this area.

Unfortunately there wasn't and I don't see either of them changing things this time round.

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Norman, I'm sure you know of Art. 433-5 of the French Penal Code (translation) which places fonctionnaires above plebs... [Www]

During the meeting this morning, I mentioned the sleepless nights this situation has caused me, and the reply was a vaguely dismissive comment along the lines of 'But you know you have nothing to worry about..."

There is no acknowledgement of wrong-doing, as this would imply someone made a mistake. And we all know they never make mistakes... [Www]


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dans l'exercice ou à l'occasion de l'exercice de sa mission, et de nature à porter atteinte à sa dignité ou au respect dû à la fonction dont elle est investie.

Lorsqu'il est adressé à une personne dépositaire de l'autorité publique, l'outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et........................



Now that really does imply that they are supposed to work and do their jobs, even invested themselves in their work.

I am still have trouble with the pension people. They passed us over to the CPAM and I thought that I was now having trouble with the CPAM in our old dept, but in fact the lady was very nice and we are all sorted. She also knew about the CNAV.

Now 15and a half months and we are still not sorted and no sign of it being sorted.

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